Caveman Rendezvous

[Scarecrow71]

So I'm winding my way through another run for the Caveman challenge, and I'm working on HARD.  I had to start over at one point as the amount of science just completely bottomed out.  Now I find myself with 5 nodes to go on Tier V, and I can smell the finish line.  But I've got a question on something that might make getting these last 450 science points a bit easier.

I have finished constructing a craft on the launchpad (central stack on the launchpad, roll side tanks and other finishing parts from the runway over to the launchpad and finish building the craft).  Using that technique, I was able to land a probe on Minmus and return to Kerbin; full details will be in the eventual mission profile I'll submit in the challenge thread.  Anyhow, this was a long and tedious process, and one I do not wish to have to repeat if I can absolutely avoid it.  This leaves orbital construction the only other potential way to build craft large enough to get to and land on other bodies.  But I'm stuck on part of this, and need the help of the community.

In non-Caveman runs, I use maneuver nodes to do rendezvous; I am good at moving the nodes and tweaking them to get the right amount of separation.  I can then reduce speed enough and dock manually using the "Matt Lowne Lazy Docking Method".  So these aren't my issues.  My issue is doing a rendezvous without having access to maneuver nodes.  Without being able to upgrade the tracking station or mission control (or any buildings for that matter), I'm stuck on doing an orbital rendezvous.  I've tried looking for tutorials on how to do this, but every tutorial I've seen includes instructions for using nodes and/or MJ to do the rendezvous for you.  And I can't use either of those in this run.  I really want to learn how to eyeball this, so I am here to ask the community:

Are there any tutorials or guides out there on how to do an orbital rendezvous without using maneuver nodes, MechJeb, or any other technology? 

I am aware of orbital speed; the ship in lower orbit travels faster than the ship in higher orbit.  And if I could I would just trial-and-error this, but I have no access to quicksave/reload OR reverting flights.  If someone out there can point me to some tips, a guide, a tutorial, a video...anything...that can help me do these, I would truly appreciate it.

Thanks in advance, and happy flying all!

[king of nowhere]

On 10/4/2024 at 6:31 PM, Scarecrow71 said:

So I'm winding my way through another run for the Caveman challenge, and I'm working on HARD.  I had to start over at one point as the amount of science just completely bottomed out.  Now I find myself with 5 nodes to go on Tier V, and I can smell the finish line.  But I've got a question on something that might make getting these last 450 science points a bit easier.

I have finished constructing a craft on the launchpad (central stack on the launchpad, roll side tanks and other finishing parts from the runway over to the launchpad and finish building the craft).  Using that technique, I was able to land a probe on Minmus and return to Kerbin; full details will be in the eventual mission profile I'll submit in the challenge thread.  Anyhow, this was a long and tedious process, and one I do not wish to have to repeat if I can absolutely avoid it.  This leaves orbital construction the only other potential way to build craft large enough to get to and land on other bodies.  But I'm stuck on part of this, and need the help of the community.

In non-Caveman runs, I use maneuver nodes to do rendezvous; I am good at moving the nodes and tweaking them to get the right amount of separation.  I can then reduce speed enough and dock manually using the "Matt Lowne Lazy Docking Method".  So these aren't my issues.  My issue is doing a rendezvous without having access to maneuver nodes.  Without being able to upgrade the tracking station or mission control (or any buildings for that matter), I'm stuck on doing an orbital rendezvous.  I've tried looking for tutorials on how to do this, but every tutorial I've seen includes instructions for using nodes and/or MJ to do the rendezvous for you.  And I can't use either of those in this run.  I really want to learn how to eyeball this, so I am here to ask the community:

Are there any tutorials or guides out there on how to do an orbital rendezvous without using maneuver nodes, MechJeb, or any other technology? 

I am aware of orbital speed; the ship in lower orbit travels faster than the ship in higher orbit.  And if I could I would just trial-and-error this, but I have no access to quicksave/reload OR reverting flights.  If someone out there can point me to some tips, a guide, a tutorial, a video...anything...that can help me do these, I would truly appreciate it.

Thanks in advance, and happy flying all!

i don't know of guides, but i can describe the process. you know how higher orbits are slower. you just use that.

first, put your first vehicle (let's call it target) in a 90x90 or 100x100 orbit. i recommend leaving some room to lower orbit without entering atmosphere.
now launch your interceptor. to save time, you can launch when the target moves out of the desert and crosses over the ocean, the interceptor will reach orbit very close to the target, but it's not necessary. send interceptor to orbit.

first thing to do, fix inclination. you have to eyeball it, but you can be fairly accurate. you have to place your view so that the target orbit will appear like a line, and the interceptor orbit will also appear like a line. when you get that view, you will have one of the nodes straight in front of you. i had a picture where i did it on jool

you see, the green orbit of jool appears like a line, and i rotate view until also the orbit of the ship looks like a line, that let me see the ascending/descending node. make a burn accordingly. this let you fix inclination to within a fraction of degree.

at this point, you must catch up with the target. if the target is in front of you in a 90x90, get into a 80x80, or 85x85 orbit.  if you are in front, use a 100x100, or 95x95 orbit. you will be slightly faster/slower than the target, and will gradually get close.

when you get within 100 km of distance, you will see the target pointed in the screen, and you will be able to acquire it as target and see it in the navball.

you will keep getting closer at each orbit. when you come close enough (if you can get within 5 km, it's better, but you can do this at 20 km too, it will just be more expensive), you burn towards your target. use the navball to establish a prograde speed directly towards your target. i recommend at least 30 m/s if you are at 5 km, 50 m/s at 10 km, 100 m/s at 20 km. This will be fast enough to counteract orbital drifting, you are just flying straight to your target. make corrections as you go, you should come close enough to stop and start docking procedures. if you don't come close enough, when you start to move away from the target, you just cancel your speed relative to the target, and burn straight towards it again.

i hope i was clear enough. it's hard without more pictures.

i recommend bringing at least 200 m/s of extra fuel to account for docking, because this way is obviously more expensive than the one involving maneuver nodes. in fact, i advise you bring 400 m/s for the first attempts. With practice, it can be done with 100 m/s. it can even be done with less if you are very careful in setting your orbits - say, target in 90x90, you get into a 89x89, this will guarantee you will pass at 1 km from the target at slow relative speed eventually - but it's longer and more boring.

Edited October 5, 2024 by king of nowhere