(Jan 24) Jool V - the hardest mission I've ever done...

[FTLparachute]

(this was taken during testing)

I think the title speaks for itself, but in this thread I'll be attempting the Jool V, landing on every moon of the green boi, and returning.

Why do this?

I have done technically complicated missions before, such as returning from New Horizons' Titanus, and a decent SSTO to Beyond Jool's Moach. However, this mission is going to be very challenging, a cut above the others in terms of sheer difficulty.

I also have previously done a Jool V, but despite being quite proud of the launch vehicle it was very barebones, something that I have certainly not done this time.

Mission Objectives

- Collect surface science from all of Jool's moons

- Deep-sea exploration of Laythe

- Return a Kerbal from Jool's sea level

Components

Tardigrades

Spoiler

The Tardigrades are the simplest parts of the mission, and are designed to sink in Laythe's ocean. The T1 models (pictured) will drive in and out of Crater and Crescent Bay, while the T0 has no wheels and will go to the Degrasse Basin, before being recovered by the Sea Hawk.

Hawk family

Spoiler

The Hawks are a set of 3 planes being used in this mission, and my best looking SSTO to date. The base Hawk is for ascent from Laythe. A second Hawk will ferry the crew from KSC to the mothership in LKO.

As neither can take off from water, and water landing is needed to recover T0, a derivative, named 'Sea Hawk', will also join the main mission. It will fly around Laythe, performing science in the poles before being ditched on the surface.

GTT

Spoiler

This lander is an evolution of the workhorse lander for a Grand Tour I did a while back. Nothing to really comment on, as this is easily capable of landing on Vall, Bop and Pol.

Potatus2

Spoiler

A vast improvement over the original Potatus, this is for Tylo. The rover has a lot of RTGs, enough that at high speeds the batteries will recharge. (NB - added extra ESU after pic taken)

Tribute

Spoiler

If you've seen my Titanus post, you'll recognize this, as it's the exact same rotorcraft, minus the legs and 2 Vectors. This lander is being used as it is recycled hardware from a previous mission, which did exactly the same.

J6 (Mothership)

Spoiler

Yet more recycled Tribute hardware, this is two of its transfer stages stacked on top of one another. The top one will detach to ferry the Tribute to Jool, while the lower section will carry the rest of the mission and has ISRU. The name is an abbreviation of Jool 6, the designation of the mission (1,2,3,4,5 being my previous big expeditions to Jool). It's shortened to keep this clear.

Now, all of these modules can be launched separately. However, I thought it would be quicker if I launched the entire J6 stack in one go. Just to keep things interesting, I used a Hawk to ferry the crew.

IMPORTANT NOTICE:

The first two attempts below were complete write-offs, and lead to redesigns across the board. Link here to skip.

Y1, D1 - Hawk SSTO Launch

Spoiler

This is going up first, as the KSC is going to be a biohazard after the J6 launches.

A good scale for that rocket - though that's not the version actually being launched.

After levelling off at 4km, the true ascent begins.

Rapiers switch a little later than intended.

Flameout. Luckily, the NERVs are powerful enough to push the Hawk the rest of the way.

Final orbit until intercept with J6

Y1, D1 (10 mins later) - J6 launch

Spoiler

Needed to add fins to keep it from tumbling. Thanks to the launch vehicle, the total part count stands at 925.

This smoke cloud, scaled to Earth, would be a kilometer in radius. Then again, I'm surprised the KSC hasn't been flattened by the decibels of 28 Mammoths. Or Jeb, who is the sole pilot of this thing.

Even with the fins, the rocket still likes to wobble at Max Q.

Staging the lower boosters. Very explosive, I'm hoping nothing was damaged.

12 Rhinos push the J6 to orbit. that debris cloud though...

Engine cutoff. By now the debris is splashing down, presumably causing a local tsunami.

Orbital insertion, leaving J6 in a 120x136km orbit.

I'll pick up next time with the intercept of the Hawk and the J6, introduce the crew, and prepare to leave for Jool.

(I'll edit the date for the title so you know if it is an update or not)

Edited 18 hours ago by FTLparachute
polish

[DennisB]

Where are the pictures gone?

Luckily, I was able to see them earlier. This ship is really massive. I've got to hear, that my spaceships were huge, but this one has more mass in Kerbin orbit, than mine on the launchpad. I wish you good luck for the mission, and enough patience to deal with the lag .

[FTLparachute]

40 minutes ago, DennisB said:

Where are the pictures gone?

Pictures are still up on my end, but if they're not working I upload them through Imgur, so they should be here.

NVM, I might have deleted everything. (ill sort it out now)

40 minutes ago, DennisB said:

I wish you good luck for the mission, and enough patience to deal with the lag .

The funny thing is this isn't even the first time this has happened. The GT I mentioned earlier was also single launch. I do this to avoid doing dockings, as at this scale the lag can be very contentious, so it's usually just quicker to do single launch.

Edited January 7 by FTLparachute

[FTLparachute]

Ok @DennisB, I've re-uploaded and then reinserted the images. Hope they're visible now.

[FTLparachute]

Y1, D1 - Crew Transfer to J6

Spoiler

After waiting 2 hours for the orbits to line up, the Hawk successfully rendezvous... about 9km off, as my incredible choice to use a NERV to spin the craft knocked me off a much more efficient intercept.

2nd approach, at 4km distance. DOE is loading in the craft's image already, which gives some scale for its size.

Nearer, just bordering the physics loading range.

Final rendezvous.

The SSTO will not dock, instead the crew EVA into their cabins.

As I said in the last post, now is the time to introduce the crew.

Crew

Spoiler

Jebediah Kerman - Mission Commander and Jool Specialist

Valentina Kerman - 2nd in Command and Laythe Specialist

Bill Kerman - Engineer, External RTG Specialist

Bob Kerman - Head Scientist, assigned to Tylo (Potatus2)

(This lot died after the reset)

Gernard Kerman - Scientist, assigned to Laythe (Tardigrade 0)
Corlorf Kerman - Scientist, assigned to Laythe (Tardigrade 1a)
Ronmy Kerman - Scientist, assigned to Laythe (Tardigrade 1b)
Criswin Kerman -  Scientist, assigned to Vall
Milpond Kerman - Scientist, assigned to Bop
Kenzor Kerman - Scientist, assigned to Pol

Y1, D174 - J6 Departs Kerbin [+Mun flyby]

Spoiler

After waiting for the optimum Jool transfer, a path is plotted.

Ejection is initially performed by the 2nd stage. Some images here are plagued by a black smudgy region on the right. It disappeared after sunrise.

NERVs finally light. Thanks to me fixing the staging, the spent boosters are actually detached.

Gorgeous sunrise, near the end of the burn. Ironically, this is very similar to an image I have of the Tribute's original mission.

After finishing, the J6 then performs a brief fly-by of the Mun, as it occludes Kerbol. Jool, the true destination, is visible on the right.

The last detailed picture of Kerbin for a while, taken after ejection on D175. The Mun's shadow is just creeping onto the surface.

But now, the J6 heads to Jool...

Edited January 11 by FTLparachute
polish

[FTLparachute]

YX, DY - I'm an idiot

It was at this point, having landed on Laythe and about to begin sciencing, that I bothered to check gameplay settings. And here I realized a truly colossal blunder I made - forgetting to uninstall KJR. I had not done this as I assumed this savefile had it deactivated, but alas, it did not.

I'll be back in 2-3 days once I've launched everything again - the rocket is stable without the mod, but I'd like to actually qualify for Jeb level.

Stay tuned.

Edited January 10 by FTLparachute
typo

[FTLparachute]

Y1, D174 - Launch of J6 (deja vu)

Spoiler

After some time resetting (which eliminated half the crew), the rocket was launched again at the transfer window.

And, as a consolation, Parallax is now active. No collision though - the rovers would be doomed.

The 1st stage, careening towards the ocean.

Orbit achieved. Funnily enough, I had no joint problems, so KJR was entirely there to spite me.

Transfer goes ahead as before.

Rhino stage detached. Due to timings, the Mun eclipse is not nearly as close...

But it still happens.

And a much closer image of the Kerbin eclipse too.

Late Y1 - Corrections and Visual Mods

No pics, as this was pretty boring visually. The final course is a Tylo Gravity Assist (TGA) to capture around Jool.

Now, in terms of other visual mods, I'm using a Frankenstein's monster of a setup. Parts are Restock, with Kerbals from Texture Replacer.

Then there's the Eve-Scatterer setup. AVP is installed, but...

Clouds - AVP

Dust - AVP

Aurorae - AVP

Lights - None

Skybox - DOE

Scatterer - Spectra Scatterer

This may be a mess, but it does look quite pretty.

Y3 - Jool Arrival

Spoiler

Soon after entering SOI. Jool and DOE flares are visible. No science yet - I'm leaving orbital until the end.

TGA as mentioned. After this, a short burn is performed at apoapsis, to bring periapsis down to Laythe.

Near 1km dV burnt, to shrink orbit while encountering Laythe. This occurs in 9 days.

At this point, the two halves split. The lower section will change inclination to capture into a Laythe orbit passing over Crescent Bay, while the top bit will take the assist down to Jool, circularizing at 220km.

Forgot to take images of the split, we'll pick back up with the bottom bit at some point, as of this post it's in elliptical Laythe orbit. Top bit does Laythe fly-by.

Retro burn at perijool.

SpecScat's sunrise, and the reason why I installed it.

Now, both are captured, and ready to begin their missions. I'll let you decide which one goes first. Poll should be up at some point.

EDIT - OK, I have no clue how to do a poll - could someone tell me?

Edited January 11 by FTLparachute

[Mr. Kerbin]

@FTLparachute

(Copied from @TwoCalories post on It’s The Wrong Red Moon)

Spoiler

Here, hopefully this clarifies it.

So, go to the very first post that you made in this thread (I called it the original post), and click edit.

And there, circled, is the Poll

Edited January 12 by Mr. Kerbin
spoilered

[FTLparachute]

22 minutes ago, Mr. Kerbin said:

Here, hopefully this clarifies it.

Thx, could you put it in a spoiler so it doesn't take up as much space

Poll now up!

[mrneon]

This mission looks similar to Heff MK2's Ultimate Jool V! Very cool.

[FTLparachute]

Poll closed - time to Jool.

[FTLparachute]

Y3, D380 - Jool 'Landing'

Spoiler

After Jeb circularized, he wasted no time in beginning the descent.

This was quite disappointing - barely any explosions.

Parachutes deploy very high up, but the real drag here is from the heat shields, which we will detach to speed up descent.

Unfortunately, this took far too many attempts - they had to be done one by one to prevent the rocket disintegrating.

Jeb looks out at the wastes of gas, as the chutes have now deployed and sciencing can begin.

At 0m. The ascent can now begin...

But, it fails. Despite thinking I had solved this in testing, the rotors vibrated to such an extreme that the rocket was barely able to fly.

Attempt 2. This time the plan is to detach as much as possible before 120km (flying low boundary for science).

Once passed (and science collected), the rocket fires up, killing off as much speed as possible before ascending as normal.

Nuclear stage activates now. This mission made me very grateful for Jool's abnormally low gravity.

Orbit achieved. Fuel is below needed for a Laythe encounter, so Jeb waits for rescue by J6.

In total, all 1st iteration experiments are collected from Flying Low at Jool, except for EVA report.

[Mr. Kerbin]

8 hours ago, FTLparachute said:

Y3, D380 - Jool 'Landing'

  Hide contents

After Jeb circularized, he wasted no time in beginning the descent.

This was quite disappointing - barely any explosions.

Parachutes deploy very high up, but the real drag here is from the heat shields, which we will detach to speed up descent.

Unfortunately, this took far too many attempts - they had to be done one by one to prevent the rocket disintegrating.

Jeb looks out at the wastes of gas, as the chutes have now deployed and sciencing can begin.

At 0m. The ascent can now begin...

But, it fails. Despite thinking I had solved this in testing, the rotors vibrated to such an extreme that the rocket was barely able to fly.

Attempt 2. This time the plan is to detach as much as possible before 120km (flying low boundary for science).

Once passed (and science collected), the rocket fires up, killing off as much speed as possible before ascending as normal.

Nuclear stage activates now. This mission made me very grateful for Jool's abnormally low gravity.

Orbit achieved. Fuel is below needed for a Laythe encounter, so Jeb waits for rescue by J6.

In total, all 1st iteration experiments are collected from Flying Low at Jool, except for EVA report.

Here’s a cool Jool fact, if you go below sea level, you will get a landed state, meaning it is possible to get the elusive Jool landed science defs- without having to do what @Stratzenblitz75 did.

Edited January 13 by Mr. Kerbin

[FTLparachute]

5 hours ago, Mr. Kerbin said:

Here’s a cool Jool fact, if you go below sea level, you will get a landed state, meaning it is possible to get the elusive Jool landed science defs- without having to do what @Stratzenblitz75 did.

No? Can you clarify further, that doesn't make much sense.

[Mr. Kerbin]

9 hours ago, FTLparachute said:

No? Can you clarify further, that doesn't make much sense.

If you go below sea level, when the altitude meter turns red, the game will register you as “landed at Jool”, because you are below sea level, so KSP thinks “oh, they must have landed!” And then, you will be able to get Jool landed state science defs (They do exist). I know, because it happened to me. (Mind you, with Volumetric Clouds, which let’s you go -75,000 m below sea level.

[FTLparachute]

3 hours ago, Mr. Kerbin said:

If you go below sea level, when the altitude meter turns red, the game will register you as “landed at Jool”, because you are below sea level, so KSP thinks “oh, they must have landed!” And then, you will be able to get Jool landed state science defs (They do exist). I know, because it happened to me. (Mind you, with Volumetric Clouds, which let’s you go -75,000 m below sea level.

I'm 99% sure that doesn't work, case in point - the rotorcraft is in the red zone in one image (KER gives it as 13cm below, but still), but still with the flying low state. Best guess is that either VC does that itself, or it's some variation of the bug I got during the Robau belt mission where the game can randomly give you a 'landed' state after quickloading, which is probably a Kopernicus thing (even if it's stock I don't think that would be allowed - or else you'd end up with everybody pulling this state tech to get splashdown from Pol).

[Mr. Kerbin]

34 minutes ago, FTLparachute said:

I'm 99% sure that doesn't work, case in point - the rotorcraft is in the red zone in one image (KER gives it as 13cm below, but still), but still with the flying low state. Best guess is that either VC does that itself, or it's some variation of the bug I got during the Robau belt mission where the game can randomly give you a 'landed' state after quickloading, which is probably a Kopernicus thing (even if it's stock I don't think that would be allowed - or else you'd end up with everybody pulling this state tech to get splashdown from Pol).

Huh. Well, it worked that way for me.

I know, because I got some of the same definitions as in the wiki for landed science defs.

Seismic Scan 1: The sensor doesn't even know what to do with itself here.
 

Atmospheric Pressure Scan: Either the pressure is really high, or the instrument just melted. It's hard to tell what happened first.
Gravity Scan: The instrument has been crushed by the massive gravitational forces. Science!

(the ones I got)

[FTLparachute]

18 minutes ago, Mr. Kerbin said:

Huh. Well, it worked that way for me.

I know, because I got some of the same definitions as in the wiki for landed science defs.

yeah, i know about the defs

[FTLparachute]

Guess what? I forgot to bring any EVA science after the KJR wipe. I'm going to restart again, but it's not going to be as quick a turnaround - I'll be redoing the rotors to stop them shaking as much, so I can actually get the EVA report Flying Low at Jool.

Still, I'll be beck by the end of the week to update progress - and maybe think about why I'm doing this a 3rd time, after the pain joy of launching the rocket twice.

[FTLparachute]

Y1, D136 - The 5 science detour!

After being an idiot yet again, I decided to kill every part/game mod I didn't need (why i didn't start with this is beyond me). This unfortunately resulted in the entire J6 craft file being lost, as I had thought before hand that keeping NFLV installed was a good idea (3.75 - 5 adaptors are copy/replaced by NFLV, so part ids were different even if performance was the same). Everything else was also expunged, including a config I kept of KA to use the Titanus legacy hardware (I had edited the NERVs to make performance identical to stock, which in KA's case is a buff)

Point is, I went back, built a new rotorcraft and mothership again, and tomorrow, that thing will be launching, and taking on the Jool V challenge without me going mad again.

Today though, we're circumnavigating Kerbin, by air. Not by ground - I'm too time strained to do that - but using the C-70, a plane I translated from Console as some calming after flunking this mission again. The full thread is here, if you want to take a look yourself.

Now, the attempt. This was spearheaded by new recruit Piper Kerman. She was enlisted to the Jool V program out of a batch of roughly 500 candidates, but was unfortunately denied after Felipe Kerman walked in at the last second and bought the entire KSC a lifetime's supply of snacks. The main argument for the flight was high-altitude observation of 1P/Beslin, the first comet discovered by Kerbals, and noted for always being active.

Spoiler

This was not half-wrong for Piper - she has a certain liking to space rocks.

The Attempt

Spoiler

This is mainly going to be a collection of images I find neat from this - the craft is up on KerbalX if you're skeptic.

dres overhead in that last shot.

ps - the quickload was because the plane kept veering off not me crashing trust me

Now, you may be asking yourself, 'Why, FTLparachute, did you put this unrelated mission in this thread, even if this was is the Jool V save file?

Well, that's because Piper Kerman went and got 5 WHOLE SCIENCE POINTS.

Yeah that's about it. J6mk2 is going up soon, post will least be by friday, cause i've gotta go all the way back to laythe. yay.

 

Also, I did the calcs, I can get rid of one other Kerbal to take Piper. Might have to do some experiments  on Leavin Kerman.

Edited Sunday at 03:28 PM by FTLparachute

[FTLparachute]

Day 173 - Meet the crew

Final prep is being made for launch on D174, so I think it's time to give the crew a proper introduction.

Spoiler

Jebadiah, Bob, Bill and Valentina Kerman - Mission Heads.

Unsurprisingly the Big Four are going on this mission. Jeb will descend to Jool. Val will land on, big shocker, Vall, while Bill, as the only engineer, will make trips to every surface in the system. Bob was slated to do the roving science at Laythe, but refused, citing 'that blasted moon got me into this lethal program - no way'. He's going to Bop as a result.

Piper Kerman - Laythe Pilot (Sea Hawk)

Piper Kerman's air trip did not go unnoticed, so much so that she was booked onto the J6. She'll be doing the Sea Hawk's Laythe trip, making a flight around the moon.

Felipe Kerman - Laythe Pilot (Hawk SSTO)

One of the first recruits, Felipe's been around long enough some think he even started the KSP. He'll bring the Hawk down to ferry the Laythe crew back up to the J6.

Kirk Kerman - Laythe Scientist (T1)

Kirk came on this mission for 2 reasons: His fascination for Laythe's climate possibly harboring life, and revenge by Gene after his obsession with claiming land with flags culminated in him sticking one directly into the Tracking Station's servers.

Buzz Kerman - Laythe Scientist (T0)

Buzz is quite a popular Kerbonaut, but unfortunately has been relegated to Laythe's B-Show. He took it on the chin, and dyed his hair blue for some reason.

Dave Kerman - Tylo and Vall Scientist

Dave was allocated to Tylo after everyone agreed Kirk would slow down the rover too much. At least, that's what they think. He is also a specialist with Science Jrs and a staunch opponent of AI in the space program, vetoing one on the J6 while muttering something about 'pod bay doors'.

Pasted Kerman - Exists only to get Unique Kerbal on Pol

With the lowest g-tolerance, Pasted has decided to sit out every landing minus the refuels on Pol. It should be safe - it has the lowest gravity.

 

Edited 18 hours ago by FTLparachute
vall

[FTLparachute]

Day 174 - Launch

Spoiler

After the revised J6 was constructed, it stood at 1170 parts, weighing in at over 13 kilotons on the launchpad.

Launch vehicle actually looks nice this time - since the part count was already so high, I decided a little vanity couldn't hurt.

Detachment - now down to 950 parts. Launch took 2 attempts as the top stage is not very stable in atmosphere (go figure)

1st cutoff - mostly in orbit.

Orbit achieved.

Now, this is where my flawed design kicks in, but benefits me. If the J6 detaches the upper stage during a burn, it will crash into the Hawks and doom the mission. This means I am forced to do an Oberth split to safely launch.

To stop the collision, TimeWarp is used to let the debris pass safely through the ship. Physics, drunk as ever.

Despite packing 56 NERVs, the J6 still needed 7 mins to do the burn. After the Daphy incident, though, I can handle 7 mins.

The burn finishes just as the sun rises, ironically similar to a pic I took during the Tribute mission.

After some more tank disposal, the J6 heads to Jool.

MCC performed, this puts us on a very nice Tylo encounter which will push us into a very good orbit for Laythe.

Piper spies Jool out of a Cupola window - the time is drawing near.

Arrival at Jool. Kirk almost passes out at the flag-planting potential - Bob is to busy staring irately at Laythe to notice.

The Tylo assist at Y3, D154. Unbeknownst to the crew, the Kerbnet radars begin searching for magnetic anomalies. Possible detect in a northern mara, but the site was magnetically similar to other mara on the surface. The crew now prepares to split the vessel - Jeb taking the Tribute to Jool, while the rest prepare to tackle Laythe, and determine if there is Life on the moon after all...

 

[FTLparachute]

Y3 D156 - Operations (Laythe Split)

Spoiler

(doing this as the forums are on the blink lol)

After the TGA, a burn is done at perijool to get a Laythe encounter on the next orbit.

The Tribute is detached from the J6 - both will be using the Laythe encounter, one to capture and the other to slingshot down to Jool.

J6 was on a mildly inclined orbit, but J6 needs to be equatorial and so recorrects. Every Jool moon is in this pic.

The two ships encountering Laythe.

J6 captures on Y3, D161.

Tribute still needs to lower perijool to skim above Jool's atmosphere. Realized now I could have pumped half its fuel into the J6.

Several burns are needed to fully circularise. But now it's time for...

Y3, D165 - Attempting Jool

Spoiler

Decided to go for it now, as I wanted Laythe overhead for comms with J6. Completely unneccesary as Jeb was present though, and transmitting is off the table for Jeb level anyway.

Perijool lowered to -200km.

Unfortunately the transfer stage left too soon to give much of a fireworks show.

But the heat shields themselves work like a charm.

So well, in fact, that they detach without blowing up the craft several times - unlike the previous iterations. This allows the craft to nosedive towards 5km.

1/2 of chutes deployed. Jeb takes science from Flying at Jool.

While looking out of the science module window, Jeb spots the problem with landing while Laythe is overhead.

At nearly 150 m above the killsphere, the blades whir up and the chutes are cut. The ascent begins.

At 90+km, the atmosphere becomes too thin to support the craft, and speed drops rapidly.

Stage 2 - the wings are shed and the rotors are pushed out of the way. The single Vector fights against Jool, although it's not much of one, as the pressure here is far less than that of Kerbin.

Nuclear stage, flying very flat to maximize efficiency.

Orbit reached! This is very cathartic - the craft has enough fuel to get an encounter with Laythe, the original plan for Tribute. Despite that, the J6 will be picking Jeb up here, as Flying High and Space Low still need tackling.

Science held on Tribute.