(0.23) Wayland Corp. Development and released download Thread (new parts)

[qnistNAMEERF]

@DEVO :

I really like the Hyper Ring and like everyone else I have noticed the missing node points along the ring. I've found about a half dozen posts with node points submitted by various users (and they all vary slightly) and was curious if you have a list of points based off the model geometry or even the geometry models available for download. Otherwise, I'll just try out some and see which I prefer. If it's too much trouble don't worry about it. I was just curious if you had that information available.

[brandotherhymer]

Okay. Did all the checks. Made sure the ISA is not on any of the Eagles. Also removed any R4 Boat Struts from any of the Eagles (except for the Naval Pod transport) and replaced them with stock struts.

You should only need LLL, Kethane mod, and KAS for these modded Eagles. Let me know if there's any further problems.

So i have the latest B9 and LLL, Kethane, and KAS, and the Eagle already. but when I attempt to load any of the ships it tells me the spotlights and another part is missing and wont load. will have to check out to see what exactly happened.

[Logan.Darklighter]

So i have the latest B9 and LLL, Kethane, and KAS, and the Eagle already. but when I attempt to load any of the ships it tells me the spotlights and another part is missing and wont load. will have to check out to see what exactly happened.

O...kay? That's bizarre. The only place where those spotlights are even used is on the Eagle Hanger Crane. None of the Eagle craft files use them at all! Are you -sure- you are using the latest version of what I uploaded? You might want to completely remove all the craft files and re-download my mod file above and try again. Also - make SURE you're using the Eagle Mark 3 mod and not the old Mark 2! I have a link to the Mark 3 at the spaceport above. it is NOT the same as the Mk 1 or 2.

[Logan.Darklighter]

Update: Well that escalated quickly. My Hard Drive completely cratered last night. Good thing I got a complete back-up to my USB terabyte drive a couple of days before and was updated mere hours before the cratering.

Sorry guys. I may be completely unable to update or do anything else for a couple of days. I've got a replacement drive and Win7 OS ready to go. But even so, I expect a lot of re-downloading is in my future.

[KhaosCorp]

Update: Well that escalated quickly. My Hard Drive completely cratered last night. Good thing I got a complete back-up to my USB terabyte drive a couple of days before and was updated mere hours before the cratering.

Sorry guys. I may be completely unable to update or do anything else for a couple of days. I've got a replacement drive and Win7 OS ready to go. But even so, I expect a lot of re-downloading is in my future.

Best of luck to ya on that bud. Good that ya got a full backup before it kerplunked!

And I feel for ya...hate the 'new pc' download hell...

Also...what the hell is wrong with me?!? I can't fly the Eagle to save my life, but I can take off and land the WT-51 anywhere on any planet...WTH! hehehehe its funny to me....no so much for the dead green dudes =)

[brandotherhymer]

Sorry to hear about your rig Logan.

None of the Eagle craft files use them at all!

I'm using the version you uploaded in the comment above. and im using the latest upload of the eagle mk3

here is the screenshot

[Logan.Darklighter]

Best of luck to ya on that bud. Good that ya got a full backup before it kerplunked!

And I feel for ya...hate the 'new pc' download hell...

Also...what the hell is wrong with me?!? I can't fly the Eagle to save my life, but I can take off and land the WT-51 anywhere on any planet...WTH! hehehehe its funny to me....no so much for the dead green dudes =)

Seriously? Use Mechjeb and learn to fly the Eagle with that. If you want to fly "manually", then just turn the surf control in Mechjeb to Kill rotation (KILLROT) and fly it that way. It's POSSIBLE to completely manually fly the Eagle. But it's an unforgiving beast.

A good analogy is that of something like the C-130 Hercules cargo plane versus an F-22. Could you fly the C-130 completely analog? Yes. But without the computer and "fly by wire" an F-22 would practically fall out of the air. The WT-51 is a big slow beast of a ship that gives you plenty of warning when something is wrong. The Eagle will turn and bite your ass in a split second. Especially in VTOL flight close to the ground.

[Logan.Darklighter]

[quote=brandotherhymer;772376

I'm using the version you uploaded in the comment above. and im using the latest upload of the eagle mk3

[brandotherhymer]

I don't know why my game was doing that, but i edited both parts out and threw on some new lights and MJ2 box. All crafts are great. Good job on all of them. I especially like the setup for the Kethane rig. Thanks for the help.

[KhaosCorp]

Seriously? Use Mechjeb and learn to fly the Eagle with that. If you want to fly "manually", then just turn the surf control in Mechjeb to Kill rotation (KILLROT) and fly it that way. It's POSSIBLE to completely manually fly the Eagle. But it's an unforgiving beast.

A good analogy is that of something like the C-130 Hercules cargo plane versus an F-22. Could you fly the C-130 completely analog? Yes. But without the computer and "fly by wire" an F-22 would practically fall out of the air. The WT-51 is a big slow beast of a ship that gives you plenty of warning when something is wrong. The Eagle will turn and bite your ass in a split second. Especially in VTOL flight close to the ground.

I have actually done some 100% self piloted take offs in the WT-51, though I prefer a little smartASS assistance to get a nice purdy accent profile.

I have gotten a number of good launches with the Eagle, though I wouldnt want to try that one on my own....its the landings that get me. I can set the WT-51 down like a feather..even on Kerbin. Cant seem to do anything but bellyflop the Eagle. Though most the time the green dudes live...but still.

I can say with much certainty that these issues have nothing to with the craft itself =)

[Logan.Darklighter]

I have actually done some 100% self piloted take offs in the WT-51, though I prefer a little smartASS assistance to get a nice purdy accent profile.

I have gotten a number of good launches with the Eagle, though I wouldnt want to try that one on my own....its the landings that get me. I can set the WT-51 down like a feather..even on Kerbin. Cant seem to do anything but bellyflop the Eagle. Though most the time the green dudes live...but still.

I can say with much certainty that these issues have nothing to with the craft itself =)

It took me awhile to learn what to do as well. Now I can reliably land the Eagle almost anywhere. But I'll readily admit I would almost never dare doing so with manual throttle control. Mechjeb's translation and KEEPVERT is my best friend in the world.

Here's my procedure for landing:

Before about 10,000 meter altitude you can make your descent speed and angle at about any speed that's appropriate for the world you're coming in to land on. If landing on a vacuum world, I'd recommend orienting using Mechjeb to Retrograde and standing on the Eagle's tail until final approach. On worlds with atmosphere, you can aerobrake and turn off the rear engines and set up the VTOL engines for maneuvering. I'll often point pro-grade using Mechjeb and then take note of my heading and then set up SURF with that same heading and anywhere from a 45 degree to flat pitch depending on my angle of descent.

What I'll do on approach from about 10-12,000 meter altitude is set the KEEPVERT number to -100 M/S down to about the 3000 meter level (just to be clear - dropping at 100 meters per second).

Before I get to 3000 ALT I'll have typed in -75 in the KEEPVERT and then hit execute when passing 3000 Meter altitude. Important note - that's 3000 meters ON THE RADAR. Keep a Kerbal's eye on the IVA for the Radar gauge and flip back and forth. When the analog needle first dips to indicate the radar has got a lock on the ground - that's when you hit "Execute" for your slowdown to -75. Immediately set up -50 on the KEEPVERT and wait for 1000 on the altimeter on the IVA. Then execute and set up for -25 and hit that at about 500 meters altitude. Then quickly set up for -10 and when you hit about 200 meters hit execute.

Then set up a -1 meter per second on the KEEPVERT and wait until you're between 50 and 20 meters altitude. By this point you should be able to mostly judge your surroundings on the outside view. If things look dicey (such as maybe you look like you're landing on a steep incline), hit the execute for the -1 on the KEEPVERT and immediately type in "00" and hit Execute again to hold altitude and use either your RCS/Roll/Pitch controls or your main engine to push you around and look for a better landing spot. (Alternately, you may want to do that in reverse - set up the "hold altitude" to check your landing spot first and THEN when it looks good, go back to descending on -1 on the KEEPVERT)

If things look okay, just hit the execute for the -1 and use RCS to kill as much horizontal speed as possible. Note that the Eagle may want to pitch in opposition response to RCS used near the ground and it may make more sense just to use the Pitch and roll to maneuver. In either case - a very light touch on the controls is best. Try to do quick bursts on the RCS (Or pitch/roll) only. You may also want to switch to fine controls.

-1 on the KEEPVERT is safe vertical landing speed. But on Kerbin and other higher gravity worlds, I sometimes like to type in "-0.5" for an even softer touchdown. Best judgement of course.

Another note - it's always good to "cycle" the gear shortly before touchdown. There's a "landing gear bug" that likes to make the Eagle's landing gear pods splay out and go screwy sometimes and make the Eagle try and "skitter" across the ground until it breaks something. Hit "G" twice to bring the gear up and then back down sometime during the landing sequence. I do it at around the 100 meter altitude level myself.

Hope that helps!

[Logan.Darklighter]

I don't know why my game was doing that, but i edited both parts out and threw on some new lights and MJ2 box. All crafts are great. Good job on all of them. I especially like the setup for the Kethane rig. Thanks for the help.

Good to hear! And thanks! As for where to set up lights on the Eagle - that's mostly personal taste. But I find that setting two of them up right behind the cockpit pod on the lower corners of the truss pointing forward and down gives the best results for me.

Note that the Kethane rig can be dropped on site at a Kethane deposit for later use by other ships if you like. You should then be able to use the equipment stored in the KAS boxes to set up fuel pipes to refuel any ship that comes by. I can't guarantee you'll be able to pick it back up again until we get some good landing gear for the pods, but it'll drop in place just fine.

[Logan.Darklighter]

Just so you guys know, I am not infallible in my Eagle piloting skills.

LAWNDART!!!

[wasmic]

T-T-T-Triple post!

Oh, and Devo, is stuff still going well? You haven't been online for some time. Did life happen again?

[Marscommander]

Just so you guys know, I am not infallible in my Eagle piloting skills.

LAWNDART!!!

I don't even want to know where the fuselage went...

[Logan.Darklighter]

Well a computer lock-up made me lose my first version of this post earlier today. Let's see if I can get through this one without getting interrupted by the Kraken.

For any who are interested, I've updated my set of mods and Eagle Craft files again. Here's the new link:

Logan's Eagle Mods and Pods

So what's new?

A few tweaks to performance of the Eagle. Specifically the way the side translation thrusters were mounted for better balance to make it easier to use in both VTOL and Orbital operations.

An attempt to reduce part count, complexity and redundant mods necessary

A couple of new parts custom made by Lackluster. (That guy is awesome!)

And a completely new type of pod for carrying and deploying a set of mapping probes using the SCANSAT mod and plug-in.

First off - the RCS translation issue. The way I had mounted the thrusters before was adequate for VTOL operations. But it was off of the COG enough that it made the ship roll too much. And in orbit/zero-g this made it very hard to dock with anything.

So I took a close look at where the most common Center of Gravity was for the Eagle. It changes a bit with different load-outs, but I found what I thought was a "sweet spot" and did some more testing.

The end result is that instead of mounting 4 RCS blocks tucked behind the truss on the sides, I was able to reduce it to 2 RCS blocks - 1 fore and 1 aft. Clipped into the top of the body. You can see below where they are (the small squares on the "roof" of the fore and aft part of the main truss tank).

This change does two positive things - it makes for steady side-to-side translation with minimal roll, and it reduces the part count since I could get rid of the redundant RCS blocks.

In regards to further reducing part and mod count, I reduced the amount of struts I was using and used standard Squad struts instead of going overboard with the tougher and weightier B9 struts. Turns out not to have compromised the structural integrity at all. Apparently I was "over-building". Overall I managed to reduce part count there as well. I love the B9 mod, but I try to use it sparingly.

What I don't use sparingly of course is the LLL parts. They make up the majority of the pod designs. Probably the most popular pod is going to be the passenger pod since that's close to the original show. I asked Lack if it was possible to create a single part pod that could replace the multi-part version that I was using before. He not only said yes, he did it himself. And I've included it in my new mod pack above and in the craft file. It REALLY helps reduce the part count. I was using around 15 parts before to make those pods. Now it's down to 7-8 and the overall part count on a passenger Eagle is around 35. Down from nearly 50 before.

I don't remember if I did this on this version or the last one, but there was a slight tweak to the design of the Kethane pod. I put the crew hatches up near the front, gave them ladders for easier access, and added an extra set of solar panels. Also - I moved 2 of the 3 RTGs that this Eagle was using from the Eagle itself to the pod. That means the pod if it's dropped on its own somewhere is much better able to power itself. It has a total of 3 RTGs and 6 solar panels, with a pair of extra solar panels in the KAS boxes just in case they're needed.

Lastly - here's that new pod I mentioned above:

There are 4 of the SCANSAT style mapping probes on this carrier. They are self-powered with solar panels batteries, xenon tanks and Ion Engines for tweaking of orbits. They also have comm-dishes in case you want to use something like Remote-Tech. And if needed, they can re-dock with the Eagle.

Imagine sending a pair of Eagles out to Jool. One could be the Kethane prospector, the other could be this one. The Kethane Eagle could keep itself, the second Eagle and even the probes topped off with fuel for an extended survey of the entire Jool moon system.

So there you go. Test and see what you think!

Lastly - I want to talk about quantum struts. I tried to refrain from using them before because they seemed a bit of a "cheat". But after banging my head on the "Drop and pick up" problem all this time I decided to give in and try it out.

OH. MY. GOD.

4 Quantum struts placed on the truss bar and pointed straight down makes the pods totally stable - AND you can (with some deft piloting) dock with one and pick it up again and it won't fall off of one end or the other! It'll actually re-dock perfectly straight! And they can be placed very unobtrusively with hardly any of the "beam" showing at all. Just the tiniest pinprick of light between the quantum strut part and the pod that's easily ignored.

I didn't put quantum struts in my mod pack above. But if you want to use the Eagle for moving stuff around? SERIOUSLY consider getting the Quantum strut mod! It'll absolutely complete the Eagle experience!

Well that's it for now. The next pod I design I think I'm going to try for the classic winch pod. Wish me luck!

(And Devo - I hope you're still out there, mate. Getting a little worried about you!)

Edited November 19, 2013 by Logan.Darklighter

[Deadweasel]

I never understood the camp that hates so hard on quantum struts and how they "break realism". Personally, I think they make a design look pretty interesting. Or, if you're wanting to avoid the laser look, notice there are two different parts.

Quantum strut emits the blue laser. Strut gun fires the same beam, but it's colored the same dull grey as the normal struts so it doesn't stand out as much.

[Tommygun]

Logan, have you seen these alternate compatible SCANsat Antennaes?

I think they might look better with the Eagles:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/49233-WIP-Parts-from-my-garden-shed-SCANsat-Antennae

[Logan.Darklighter]

I never understood the camp that hates so hard on quantum struts and how they "break realism". Personally, I think they make a design look pretty interesting. Or, if you're wanting to avoid the laser look, notice there are two different parts.

Quantum strut emits the blue laser. Strut gun fires the same beam, but it's colored the same dull grey as the normal struts so it doesn't stand out as much.

Oh so THAT'S what those are for! I thought they were more of a KAS style thing for Kerbals to afix to structures after the fact. I'll have to check that out. Thanks!

Logan, have you seen these alternate compatible SCANsat Antennaes?

I think they might look better with the Eagles:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/49233-WIP-Parts-from-my-garden-shed-SCANsat-Antennae

Oh my goodness! Those DO look great! And very much more in the Moonbase Alpha aesthetic! Thanks! Downloading now!

[Deadweasel]

Oh so THAT'S what those are for! I thought they were more of a KAS style thing for Kerbals to afix to structures after the fact. I'll have to check that out. Thanks!

The quantum core lets you do that, but as I understand it, that part is still a bit bugged. I never use it anyway, so... *shrug*

[Logan.Darklighter]

Hmm... Speaking of dropping stuff and picking it back up. I just discovered a slight problem with the Kethane Prospector Pod. When you drop the current version it reads only as "Debris" and can't function on it's own. That's easily fixed though. If you intend to drop one off, I recommend placing a probe on it somewhere. There's room inside the Scanner Bay for one. I used the GERTY model available in the LLL pack and it works just fine. Alternatively anything hooked to it by pipes for fuel transfer can provide the control necessary.

[xenogray]

Hello !

Maybe i missed some posts about it but... is this 0.22 compatible ?

[Logan.Darklighter]

Hello !

Maybe i missed some posts about it but... is this 0.22 compatible ?

Only in sandbox mode so far. The main Eagle mod was made for .20 and then later for .21. As noted above, I've modified the command pod and ASAS to .22 standards for control.

Devo is the author of the mod and hasn't upgraded to .22 for career mode or science.

[KhaosCorp]

I never understood the camp that hates so hard on quantum struts and how they "break realism". Personally, I think they make a design look pretty interesting. Or, if you're wanting to avoid the laser look, notice there are two different parts.

Quantum strut emits the blue laser. Strut gun fires the same beam, but it's colored the same dull grey as the normal struts so it doesn't stand out as much.

I HATE quantum struts...not because it break realism.....but because it BREAKS my craft more times then not.....not to mention there is more realistic alternative to do the same thing (KAS struts).

[Deadweasel]

I HATE quantum struts...not because it break realism.....but because it BREAKS my craft more times then not.....not to mention there is more realistic alternative to do the same thing (KAS struts).

That I can certainly understand. I do get some weirdness out of the blue sometimes, on certain ships. On some, it behaves just fine and without issues, but on small ones that dock/undock often? Oh heck no! I get "pinned" in space more often than not trying that.

Sadly, KAS is yet another mod, much larger and heavier than quantum struts. I simply don't have the RAM available to run with it (though I now have a couple of use cases where it's extremely desirable, so I'm starting to waffle on it).