(0.23) Wayland Corp. Development and released download Thread (new parts)

[Devo]

I use 2 struts internaly between each section on WT-51 and have never had it come apart. And I am really bad at landing, i have flopped that thing down perty hard a few times. At worst the tail pops off...thats not mission critical once its landed, i can always ferry the crew elsewhere and recycle the busted ship.

Was wondering if you plan on putting your stuff into techtree?

Have not even glanced over the tech tree stuff yet and maybe wont until the next update. I forsee ALOT of changes to be made in it, and right now I just want to get back to playing the game, they left that scene transition bug in there for months, I'm a hardcore player and they nearly lost me, I can only imagine how many players it really cost them.

I am inspired again, I need to get back to these landing legs and other things I put on hold. I needed a good break, there is only so long you can do this 5 days a week before you burn yourself out.

Edited October 18, 2013 by Devo

[drtedastro]

oh yes, landing gear, please...... have fun playing the game. i guess that you can get burnt pretty quick with just building mods and such... love your kit...

[KhaosCorp]

Have not even glanced over the tech tree stuff yet and maybe wont until the next update. I forsee ALOT of changes to be made in it, and right now I just want to get back to playing the game, they left that scene transition bug in there for months, I'm a hardcore player and they nearly lost me, I can only imagine how many players it really cost them.

I am inspired again, I need to get back to these landing legs and other things I put on hold. I needed a good break, there is only so long you can do this 5 days a week before you burn yourself out.

On the upside due to the scene change bug I FINALLY finished AC3 lol...figured I should before 4 comes out...hadn't touched it since I found KSP till couple weeks ago =)

When ya get some progress on the WT-51 changes you should throw some screens u for us to drool on...but by all means make sure ya play a bit first =) happy to see ya back btw

[viperwolf]

man its(landing legs) good (landing legs)to have you(landing legs) back

seriously glad the bug was fixed. Have Fun

[drtedastro]

with a side order of,,,, landing legs.

[wasmic]

How come that nobody has asked about the landing legs yet? Seriously, it's good to have you back, Devo. By the way, how's it going with the magnatech mod? I just discovered it.

[viperwolf]

will the landing legs use the new shock system thingy? or will that be a later update?

[KhaosCorp]

You like the new leg function? I think its garbage..good idea yes, but the actual legs are crap imo.

[Railgunner2160]

If squad added the feature the various modders can always tweak the hell out of it! Much easier to work with something already there than create something new.

Looking forward to what people can do with the new things added in .22.....

[viperwolf]

You like the new leg function? I think its garbage..good idea yes, but the actual legs are crap imo.

I love the idea of it, but i have not worked with the ones squad provided very much. So i cannot say anything about them. But i know that DEVO can tweak them to a genius level if he wanted

[Pigbear]

For me they worked fine but its glad to have Devo back.

[Hawkstorm]

Great to see you back mate this game wouldn't be the same without ya.

As far as the WT51 some of the seams and joints between the parts need a touchup, I'm going to try give it a pass through Ubi's welding plugin to see if that helps with the woblage.

I don't know if your any good with plugins or not, perhaps something like a auto load balancer that adjusts the center of mass on the fly to keep the center of mass balanced loaded or unloaded.

Also for some reason I can't get the craft files to load in career mode even copied over to the save folder, even if the parts are all unlocked.

[KhaosCorp]

Yea, hopfuly some of the moders can make em work good...as is the new stock legs are about rubbish...I been using NP legs since 0.22. The nw stock legs have INCREASED the amount of craft that land crooked. They dont cusion landing on anything bigger than a 1 man lunar lander type craft....and ya go a tiny bit over weight and the piston buckles...they are crap.

Hope is something that can be worked with...not all things can be worked with as railgunner would lead on....sometimes in order to get stuff working right you have to totaly redo what squad has done lol

[Railgunner2160]

True, not all things are easier to tweak than redo. But I'll hold out judgement on whether the new leg modules are completely useless, or workable, till the experienced modders take a crack at it.......

[jpinard]

What is this scene change bug you're referring to (I'm new to the game)?

[KhaosCorp]

What is this scene change bug you're referring to (I'm new to the game)?

Its gone now, thank goodness. But 0.21 was bugged between scene and SoI changes. Would take 10-12 seconds to get from VAB to SpaceCenter scene, and the longer the game ran that time would go up...working on some part I made I saw it get upto just over a minute...to change scenes.

Also it would cause 10-15 seconds of lag during SoI (thats Sphere of Influence) changes.

[viperwolf]

Yea, hopfuly some of the moders can make em work good...as is the new stock legs are about rubbish...I been using NP legs since 0.22. The nw stock legs have INCREASED the amount of craft that land crooked. They dont cusion landing on anything bigger than a 1 man lunar lander type craft....and ya go a tiny bit over weight and the piston buckles...they are crap.

Hope is something that can be worked with...not all things can be worked with as railgunner would lead on....sometimes in order to get stuff working right you have to totaly redo what squad has done lol

Ah ok i se what your saying here, i can see where that is going to be a problem for me

[Logan.Darklighter]

So - I return after a long absence!

My apologies for dropping out, but I've not had much time for anything KSP related in the last 5-6 months or so. My dad's health deteriorated badly and I've gone from "occasional helper with chores" to "live in caretaker". Basically - if not for my being here, dad would've had to go to a nursing home most likely. And no one wants that. He's still mentally sharp. Just very frail these days.

Also about the last time I posted here, I was just about burned out, and the changes to KSP had me (and a lot of people) kinda ticked off.

So I hadn't even touched KSP up until very recently, when I updated to .21 and .22 and began practicing with the plain vanilla parts and techniques. Have placed space stations and refueling depots in Kerbin and Munar orbit. Got a couple of nuclear powered tugs pushing craft around. Landed on the Mun and Minmus. (One lander got re-used and refueled 4 times and has made 2 landings on both the Mun and Minmus!)

So I got some good practice with the basic systems and have been getting back up to speed. With 22 out I figured now was a good time to check on all the mods and start reloading things.

Was delighted to see that Devo had a Mk 3 Eagle. So naturally that was one of the first things I downloaded.

Earlier in this thread, there was that challenge that Devo posted about landing the Eagle on the VAB. That sounded like a good first goal.

Holy crap it was tough! More than it had any right to be!

So yeah - noticed some problems with the Eagle.

-- No engine sounds.

-- Didn't seem to have near enough torque for stability.

It was REALLY wobbly. More than the old Mk 2. I crashed it a few times. Finally decided to see what attaching an extra SAS unit to the main body would do.

It made it a LOT more stable! And I got a good landing on top of the VAB out of it!

"Hmmm..." says I. "Let's take a look at the craft files and compare them to the squad equivalents."

What I found was very interesting and enlightening. There's some new code for .22 (that seems geared for the new science system). And the SAS module code was changed.

Most importantly - in comparing the Eagle's nosecone ASAS with a standard SAS or flywheel, I realized that with the changes to .21 and .22 that that little Eagle nosecone was doing NOTHING. NADA. ZILCH.

And I didn't think I liked what I was seeing in the Command pod as far as SAS code either.

So here's the experiment I ran. I replaced the code in the command pod for SAS functions with the equivalent values from the standard 3-man capsule.

Next I took the Squad reaction wheel code and pretty much replaced everything in the old Eagle ASAS part with that.

While I was messing around in the guts of the command pod, I made it into a two-man pod with the cockpit interior of the Gemini capsule from the Novapunch mod packs.

And I checked on the engine sounds coding and replaced the values there with Squad equivalents. Specifically - I made the Eagle nuclear main engines sound like the vanilla Nuclear rockets. And I replaced the VTOL thruster sounds with jet engine sounds (since that's the closest the original Eagle from the TV show sounded like).

So - how's it handle now?

A HELL of a lot more stable!

Was able to VTOL around KSC with much more confidence and hover rock steady.

So - in summary -

- Fixed up the engine sounds

- Fixed much of the stability issues

- modded the cockpit interior

- Added reporting of science functionality to the command module (still tweaking that)

Also looking into the possibility of adding the Eagle parts to the Tech Tree since I THINK I understand the code for that. Don't hold me to anything in that regard! IF - and I do mean IF!! - that were modded, I'd put most if not all the Eagle Parts on the FAR END of the tech tree maybe just short of the wild stuff like FTL drives and whatnot. It's a complex higher tech set of parts than most standard rocket parts.

Here's a link to a zip file of the mods I made. If Devo or anyone else wants to check it out and see if my mods make your Eagle fly better, be my guest. Run your own comparisons. I'd like to know what you think.

[viperwolf]

Welcome back and respect to you for helping your dad. Also nice research on the Eagle.

[UltraVires]

LOGAN! You Sneaky so and so! I was just about to send Devo a huge PM about the Eagle too! Then you beat me to the punch!

Gonna try out your changes right now, and see how it goes. Welcome back btw! I've been keeping a low profile myself, just lurking on the boards. Been busy IRL like you. I know how you feel with your Dad, my grandmother is in pretty bad shape as well... and like Viper, much respect for looking out for your family, "Blood is thicker than water"

[Logan.Darklighter]

Ever have one of those truly facepalm moments where you realize you have been an absolute MUSEUM GRADE MORON?

I just had one of those - let me explain.

Okay - I picked up new updated versions of Lackluster labs parts, Mechjeb (Old and new versions, just in case), the Kethane mod and various other odds and ends that were updated for .22 (In a couple of cases - .21 versions, since those are still useable in sandbox mode)

And I started messing about with the Eagle, practicing and whatnot and putting together pods for it. (The LLL stuff has gotten even BETTER for that purpose now, I might add. It's no longer quite the chore it used to be to try and make the stuff fit the right way.)

One of the problems I noticed was that if you make an entire LLL pod into a fuel tank, the Eagle can just BARELY lift off with it. That could obviously be a problem for heavy loads. The Eagle Mk 3 isn't as ridiculously overpowered as the Eagle mk2 was. So although it's a bit of a challenge, that's a change I approve of.

However - I thought that there SHOULD be an obvious solution to the problem of heavy loads - add VTOL thrusters to the pods. All Eagle pods should have the extra thrusters on them, right?

With the Mk 2 Eagle I tried and tried to figure out a way to make that work. And I never could. I guess it makes sense. For one thing, the pods were built at 90 degrees off-angle to the Eagle and although the engines would attach just fine, they wouldn't actually activate. I think part of the problem with the Mk 2 Eagle was just the way that the VTOL activation was "hard-wired" in to MechJeb. You couldn't really add extra engines to it.

So I started to add engines to the Mk 3 pods and ran into the same problem! I was tearing my hair out trying to clip fuel lines from the truss to the pod engines thinking that fuel flow might be the problem. No go. They'd attach just fine but they wouldn't fire up.

Then I finally got a clue when I added the extra engines to the truss itself directly just to see what happened, and they STILL wouldn't fire.

THAT'S when I facepalmed. ACTION GROUPS!! Logan you IDIOT!

*sigh*

So yeah. Add the new VTOL thrusters to the same action group that Devo assigned and VOILA! They all work now! No extra fuel lines required - just make sure whatever you attach them to is crossfeed capable and you're good.

The Passenger Pod Eagle is made purely from Lackluster Labs (LLL) parts that have been updated for KSP .22. The LLL doors on either side turn the structural pod into a space capable of carrying 16 Kerbals. (8 per door)

Also - I might add that if you have those extra thrusters on a light load like the passenger pod above? It has a LOT of extra power to spare for lift and the engines throttle requirements are cut in half for getting off the ground. Since the basic Eagle is not as overpowered, I'm guessing it wouldn't have as easy of a time getting off of Eve as the Mk 2 did. However - I'd bet that as long as you had enough fuel, that a Mk 3 carrying a light passenger pod with the extra thrusters should be able to do it. (Might be useful for getting stranded Kerbals off of Eve, yes?)

With Mechjeb 2 attached, and the mods that I made in my previous post, the Eagle has OUTSTANDING performance!

I want to point out something for anyone moving from the Mk 2 experience to the Mk 3. Remember the old "nosedive" issues? Gone. But now there's a Nose UP tendency. However it's not as instant. And it actually helps offset heavier loads, which I think was the point.

I'll take the nose up over a nose dive any day. A nose pitch UP doesn't instantly put you in danger like a nose dive would. The pitch up on the Mk 3 also is a bit slower to happen than the nosedive of the Mk 2. Which gives you more time to react to it and correct for it.

When operating with Mechjeb 2.0 it's an absolute dream to fly, even with a load. It's easily manageable to orbit and has plenty of control. Mind you - you do want to keep the RCS on a little more with the Mk3. But the over-correcting wobble I experienced in purely manual flight is damped right out when flying with Mechjeb's Kill Rotation and Surf features and RCS use is minimal. Just enough to correct for any pitch-up that occurs and damp it right out.

And the fact that you can REFUEL the Eagles now! That's just awesome.

In fact, take a look - remember the Kethane prospecting unit from previous posts of mine? It's a lot more streamlined and useful now. Check it out -

The Kethane Prospector Pod requires the LLL, Kethane, and Kerbal Attachment System (KAS) mods that have been updated for .22.

At the front end of the pod is the Kethane Cracking unit. Right behind that is the Kethane Storage tank. Attached to the sides of that are the drilling units, solar panels for extra power, and a pair of KAS storage boxes that have pipes and struts for use in refueling other vehicles and some more solar panels you can add, just in case.

Behind the Kethane tank is the bay that holds the Kethane sensor. Technically the doors don't HAVE to be open for the Kethane sensor to work, but they sure do make right clicking for activation a lot easier! Behind the Sensor bay is an RCS tank and a Fuel tank. I've attached a pair of hatches as well that in LLL style define a small lab/living area for more kerbals. This isn't a passenger pod, but there's still room for 6 Kerbals back there if you need to mount a rescue mission.

I have one of these currently orbiting the Mun after a full refuel. It's ready to depart and I'm thinking of sending it off to Duna.

With the Kethane Prospector pod in place, you have a powerful ship that can refuel anywhere that it can detect Kethane. It has effectively unlimited range. you could mount a complete "Grand Tour" of the entire Kerbol system just with that ship right there.

Mind you - there's still a slight problem. Releasing those pods is now possible - the parts no longer clip and blow up the ship if you release them from their mounting points. But they may fall apart still and there's no guarantee that you can redock properly with them. But if you HAD to get rid of them, you could do so safely. I'm still working on making versions that can be picked back up again. I'm having to redo a lot of stuff from scratch.

Anyway. Aside from fully integrating the Eagle parts into the .22 tech tree, I'd call the Mk 3 Eagle pretty much DONE. Everything about the performance issues of the Mk 1 and 2 has been addressed properly and it can fly properly - and refuel!

There's only one thing left - and that's the authentic Eagle pods from the source material itself. But considering that you can build your own now, I'll be satisfied even if that never shows up. One suggestion to Devo if you ever do make them - the pod landing gear should be usable with other style pods than the Space 1999 versions.

I think it's pretty clear how I built those pods just by looking at them. But in case you want to have a craft file for them, here they are:

Eagle Mk 3 Passenger Pod

Eagle Mk 3 Kethane Prospector

You'll probably also want the mods I made for the Eagle's command pod and ASAS as linked above.

Mods and Parts you'll need for the above craft files:

LLL - Lackluster Labs Pack

Kethane Pack 0.8

Kerbal Attachment System

Mechjeb 2.0

Bill 9000 Mechjeb Interface

When I do more stuff with the Eagles, I'll probably come back to the launchpad and see about making it mobile again - and able to be launched to the Mun to be set down.

But I do want to test and review some of Devo's other projects like the rovers, wheels, command pods and the like. The new shuttles and cockpit IVAs for them are VERY sexy looking.

And I am VERY enthusiastic for the Serenity project! I hope that works out!

[viperwolf]

Jeez Logan, i think your an Eagle genius. Nice work. Im sure DEVO will be pleased to see this.

[Logan.Darklighter]

Thanks, I appreciate the sentiment, but it's Devo that knocked this one out of the park. I'm just showing what you can do with it.

But here - have a pic of the Eagle Kethane Prospector on Duna mining the sweet green from the red sands.

[KhaosCorp]

So...I saw that changers were being made to WT-51 and decided to wait and grab it then. Starting to get into my new 0.22 game and really missing it!! Think I may have to d/l the current version to hold me over =) That speaks volumes on the usefulness of that craft...Im typicaly the type that dont care how missions are done, long as they end the same. But as I plan starting my industrial missions for places other than Kerbin I find myself muttering 'wish I had the WT for this'.

Thanks again for such an awesome creation, looking forward to seeing what changes your making to her =)

edit:what version of the Eagle are people flying right now?? I see mention of the Mk3 but can only seem to find download link for Mk1 & Mk2.

Edited October 28, 2013 by KhaosCorp

[Logan.Darklighter]

What version of the Eagle are people flying right now?? I see mention of the Mk3 but can only seem to find download link for Mk1 & Mk2.

Here's the link to the Eagle Mark 3 on the Spaceport. Enjoy!