(0.23) Wayland Corp. Development and released download Thread (new parts)

[Logan.Darklighter]

I've not had any luck with KAS Struts. They always seem to explode on me for no reason.

The Quantum Stuts seem to work just fine though.

On another note - It occurs to me that I'm posting a lot of screenshots and not getting much back. I'd love to see what YOU GUYS are doing with the pods and the Eagles! Or if you've made some use of Wayland's other stuff. C'mon, show the love and show us what you're doing with this stuff!

On that note:

[xenogray]

Only in sandbox mode so far. The main Eagle mod was made for .20 and then later for .21. As noted above, I've modified the command pod and ASAS to .22 standards for control.

Devo is the author of the mod and hasn't upgraded to .22 for career mode or science.

Thanks for the info It's quite easy to add the items in the techtree so i guess the Eagle and the Command pod are the only ones "playable" on .22 ?

[Logan.Darklighter]

Thanks for the info It's quite easy to add the items in the techtree so i guess the Eagle and the Command pod are the only ones "playable" on .22 ?

Well the PX Shuttle and the WT-51, and other stuff like the Freelancer Pod and the "Ute" rover DO work in sandbox mode in .22. They'll load. You can do stuff with them and they won't break the game. But their command pods and ASAS units need to be re-coded the same way that I did the Eagle's or you won't have ANY stability at all. They don't have native reaction wheel modules until you code them in like I did with the Eagle. I actually did do that at one point but that was shortly before my old hard drive went to silicon heaven and I haven't gotten around to re-doing those.

EDIT:

If you want to do the module code yourself, it's fairly easy. Look for the .CFG file in the part folder and open that up in notepad.

If you see code that looks like this:

// --- pod/rcs parameters ---

rotPower = 5

linPower = 1

Kp = 1.0

Kd = 1.0

Replace it with something like this:

MODULE

{

name = ModuleReactionWheel

PitchTorque = 15

YawTorque = 15

RollTorque = 15

RESOURCE

{

name = ElectricCharge

rate = 1.2

}

}

The above is the code I used in the Eagle Command pod. But it'll work the same for any command module or ASAS Part that needs to be updated. Notice that the Pitch, Yaw, and Roll Torque values above are at 15. You might want to raise those numbers for larger craft. Particularly for something like the WT-51. IIRC I went with 25 on the command pod of the WT-51 and 40 on the ASAS module. It's a HUGE ship that needs a lot of torque. With the PX Shuttles I went with 20 and 30 respectively. Worked out fine.

Use other parts to compare and contrast. Go into the Squad folder and see what the .CFG values are for their stuff. It's a good guide. Also any other major mod like B9 will have comparable parts to look at and derive values from.

As far as tech tree implementation goes, I didn't want to do that myself. Or at least I didn't want to post what I was experimenting with. Because I felt that's stepping on Devo's schtick more than I like. HE should be the one that decides where all these parts go in the tech tree.

Although perhaps we should bounce some ideas back and forth on that? Devo should get final say of course. But "customer feedback" is (almost) always helpful.

Edited November 20, 2013 by Logan.Darklighter

[wasmic]

I had an idea of how to expand on the mech-pod, it would be quite simple AND it would increase its usefullness by a lot.

1: Add a docking port/parachute part, which is pretty much just the normal MechPod chut, but with a build-in docking port.

2: Add a bottom attachment node to the heatshield/engine, this would allow us to place it on top of a lifter. Also add auto-fairings to the engine.

3: Add a fueltank-less engine with sane Isp values (about 400) and a landing legs part with less fuel.

4: Add two RCS ports in the MechPod style: one linear and one with the standard four ports.

Together, these three additions will allow the MechPod to be used as a Crew Vehicle - kinda like the Orion and PPTS that are under development. Except for the fact that it doesn't ditch its engines and fuel tanks before reentry.

[Devo]

Well, thanks to economic downsizing I am now making mods full time, as opposed to a few hours a month.. watch this space.

[Logan.Darklighter]

Ah man, that sucks. Good luck on the job hunt. And welcome back!

[xenogray]

Well the PX Shuttle and the WT-51, and other stuff like the Freelancer Pod and the "Ute" rover DO work in sandbox mode in .22. They'll load. You can do stuff with them and they won't break the game. But their command pods and ASAS units need to be re-coded the same way that I did the Eagle's or you won't have ANY stability at all. They don't have native reaction wheel modules until you code them in like I did with the Eagle. I actually did do that at one point but that was shortly before my old hard drive went to silicon heaven and I haven't gotten around to re-doing those.

EDIT:

If you want to do the module code yourself, it's fairly easy. Look for the .CFG file in the part folder and open that up in notepad.

If you see code that looks like this:

Replace it with something like this:

The above is the code I used in the Eagle Command pod. But it'll work the same for any command module or ASAS Part that needs to be updated. Notice that the Pitch, Yaw, and Roll Torque values above are at 15. You might want to raise those numbers for larger craft. Particularly for something like the WT-51. IIRC I went with 25 on the command pod of the WT-51 and 40 on the ASAS module. It's a HUGE ship that needs a lot of torque. With the PX Shuttles I went with 20 and 30 respectively. Worked out fine.

Use other parts to compare and contrast. Go into the Squad folder and see what the .CFG values are for their stuff. It's a good guide. Also any other major mod like B9 will have comparable parts to look at and derive values from.

As far as tech tree implementation goes, I didn't want to do that myself. Or at least I didn't want to post what I was experimenting with. Because I felt that's stepping on Devo's schtick more than I like. HE should be the one that decides where all these parts go in the tech tree.

Although perhaps we should bounce some ideas back and forth on that? Devo should get final say of course. But "customer feedback" is (almost) always helpful.

Oh wow nice ! Thanks for the explanation

About the techtree, i usually change it even if the author already set up the node. Sooo .. x) I usually put this kind of awesome parts at the end of the techtree since it's kinda.. well.. advanced.

[Termaul]

Thanks for the new pods Logan! they were great on my Eagle. I was able to add the eagle to the tech tree by messing with the config files , did it just to test it out . I would like to see it be integrated in the tech tree in a balance way i cant decide were to put what parts. Hope to see what you do next Devo love the mods so far.

[Pigbear]

so which mods are updated and which are not?

[Logan.Darklighter]

so which mods are updated and which are not?

None of them are updated to .22. But the main ones - the Eagle, the PX Shuttle, the WT-51 "Gojira", all work fine in .22 sandbox (with the above mentioned code replacements for the command pods and ASAS units which can be easily done on the user end.)

Some of Wayland's other stuff which is just parts - like the station rings and such - will also work just fine in .22 with no rewrites as long as you're in sandbox mode. They won't work or appear in career mode yet.

The "Ute" rover works just fine. Though again - you might want to edit in the reaction wheel code since it's technically a "command pod" plus it'll give it some more stability.

If you've got a specific question about how to get a particular part working the way you want it to, ask and someone here probably can help you get it working right.

[Logan.Darklighter]

Thanks for the new pods Logan! they were great on my Eagle. I was able to add the eagle to the tech tree by messing with the config files , did it just to test it out . I would like to see it be integrated in the tech tree in a balance way i cant decide were to put what parts. Hope to see what you do next Devo love the mods so far.

Glad you like the pods!

This is just a personal opinion, but as far as integrating the Eagle into the tech tree, I think it's obvious it's over towards the high end. I don't think it's on the extreme out there with the exotic stuff like the FTL drive stuff or anti-matter power plants etc. I do think it should be considered to be at the top end of "interplanetary rocketry" or whatever it's called. I haven't yet played or seen enough career mode to know the exact terms. I did start a career mode game. And I really should get back to that and do some more science.

I don't think all the Eagle parts even have to show up at the exact same time in the tree. The Command Pod could actually appear much sooner than anything else.

In fact, let me "thumbnail sketch" out what I think is a logical progression. Where these parts exactly show up in the overall tree I still don't know. But simply related to each other, I see the progression like this:

- Command Pod

- Landing Gear Pods

- Main truss Body

- VTOL engines

- Main Engines

Some of those might appear in the tree almost simultaneously. I see the main body and the landing gear pods as a set. The command pod, though advanced, isn't really anything special (unless Devo wants to make it more like the version in the show, with inherent RCS thrusters and full "escape pod" functionality) though it still should be considered more advanced than most other pods.

It's the VTOL and Main engines that should really finish out the Eagle in the tech tree. They're supposed to be extremely compact nuclear engines/rockets. It's not so much that such tech wouldn't already exist. It's packing it all into such a small area - the miniaturization - that would put those engines so high on the tech tree. And the Ion versions? They should be even higher!

[Logan.Darklighter]

John Cleese: "And now for something completely different!"

So part of the Wayland Eagle pack is a classic style landing/launch pad from Moonbase Alpha. When the pack came out about half a year ago I played around with the idea of making the launchpad into a rover so that it could be lifted to the Mun, then driven around and parked on level ground for an Eagle to land on.

But then Kerbtown came out.

So I imagine that the Eagle launchpad part doesn't actually NEED to be launched to the moon and driven around, considering that the Kerbtown plug-in will make building a "Munbase Alpha" on the mun possible and we won't need to lug stuff up there to build something that gigantic (and game-breaking). We can just add the model to the Kerbtown addition.

But I decided to do it ANYWAY. Just for the hell of it!

First - I re-sized it so it's proportionally accurate to the Eagle (and easier to land on). (Needs to be re-sized to 1.0 in case you're curious)

Then I did something similar to what I did before with the rover experiments - I added the lights (B9 lights this time - they look awesome.) With internal fuel tanks, a robust undercarriage with rover wheels, landing struts to deploy once I found a level spot to park it, a generator and batteries for electricity etc. And since the Eagle VTOL engines work now without needing any special hookups or to be attached directly to an Eagle truss - I put a lot of engines underneath for lifting it to Kerbin Orbit and then to the Mun. And strutted the thing with B9 struts to hold it all together and clipped into the main launchpad part.

Overall I really overbuilt the damn thing WAY too much.

I'm not going to bother with a craft file for now - partly because of the Kerbtown issue making the thing unnecessary in the first place. Partly because it's a monster at nearly 200 parts that reduces framerate to annoying levels. And partly because... well that's getting ahead of myself. More later.

For now though. I got the thing out onto the runway, confirmed that it drove around alright, then decided to lift off. I figured that this really wasn't going to work and that I'd get a spectacular explosion out of it, but hey - that could be fun too.

So - the undercarriage worked. But that's no great surprise. (I did mention I SERIOUSLY overbuilt this?)

Landing legs check. Yup. Solid.

Lift-off!

It's at this point that I discovered a rather serious flaw in my design. Apparently I'd installed the probe upside down and my attempts at changing pitch and angle for a gravity turn were making things worse. I ultimately wound up losing control and flipping over like a plate.

BUT... I'd gained enough altitude and enough time to both figure out what was wrong and attempt a save...

Seriously?!

HOW IS THIS EVEN WORKING??????

Needless to say - I got it into a stable orbit (being careful to take into account the "backwards" piloting I'd have to do). Then got it into a Hohman transfer orbit to the Mun, then de-orbited and got down to a low altitude to look around for a landing site.

That looked reasonably flat enough to land on.

When I got close though it was angled more than I thought. No worries. That's what being able to DRIVE the thing is for!

Eventually I found a good spot of level ground and de-ployed the landing legs and lights. Then switched over to Eagle 1 (already up on the Mun) piloted by none other than Jebediah himself to go land on the thing.

Ta-daaa!

Now as I said before, this is utterly impractical as it stands. The frame-rate and part count issues and the redundant nature of this thing I've already mentioned.

HOWEVER.

I have an IDEA. A cunning plan.

That whole undercarriage assembly is pretty extensive. It's big enough really to qualify as a base unto itself with some re-design.

So... I'm thinking of taking that whole section and re-designing it. Making it viable as a small Munbase. Kethane cracking station perhaps. Comm towers. Living blocks - the works. Launch-able via integral engines and perhaps a supplementary launch stack.

Then fit the launch pad on TOP of the thing with a small fuel tank and some VTOL engines and probe body. Just enough to lift it off the top of the base once de-coupled and then set it down next to the base and then link it via docking port.

In fact, I'm seriously thinking of combining that idea - with this test concept below - the S.H.A.D.O. Munbase.

When I work those bugs out of that concept - THEN I'll post a craft file for it.

Then you'll have a place to land your Eagles at until we get a Kerbtown Munbase Alpha.

[Termaul]

That Munbase looks amazing Logan!

[Tommygun]

Logan, are you trying to place the base near the co-ordinance of 51.6° N, 9.3° W?

That was the location of the fictional TV base. I haven't been there sense they redid the surface of the Mun and don't know if it is still reasonably flat.

[Logan.Darklighter]

Logan, are you trying to place the base near the co-ordinance of 51.6° N, 9.3° W?

That was the location of the fictional TV base. I haven't been there sense they redid the surface of the Mun and don't know if it is still reasonably flat.

Actually no. For the first attempt I was just trying to set down safely ANYWHERE. So I wound up near the equator.

However - I have actually managed to set down the central hub of the SHADO base safely down in a Crater not far from the coordinates you mentioned on a nice reasonably flat spot. Now I'm trying to figure out how to get the other parts up there.

I was trying to use the PX Shuttle to do it. The Habitat "arms" each fit in the Mk 4's bay just fine. But getting them OUT is a problem. I was trying to use the one of the Robot Arms (the Canada Arm analogue) to pick one up out of the bay. Testing it on the runway. But I think it might be too heavy and un-centered to do so safely. I keep tearing the thing apart or doing damage to the Shuttle.

I'm thinking I'm going to try making a custom rover "sled" to the arm assemblies and then see about securing one or more of those in the WT-51. If they'll roll, I can just set the Gojira down close and have them driven out to link up and then discard the wheels with de-couplers once they're docked up.

That landing pad was just a test item BTW. I don't really want to use something with THAT MANY parts as part of an actual base. I think what I'm likely to do is use a Skycrane style set of parts to bring one up and then set it down on or near the base, then I can discard the extra parts. That's actually how I worked it with the central Hub.

Edited November 28, 2013 by Logan.Darklighter

[UltraVires]

Logan, are you trying to place the base near the co-ordinance of 51.6° N, 9.3° W?

That was the location of the fictional TV base. I haven't been there sense they redid the surface of the Mun and don't know if it is still reasonably flat.

In the old days (pre .22) there was a nice little crater there, about 3 km wide, with a reasonably flat bottom. Of course, I don't know what's there now, but there should still be a crater. On the real Moon, those are the coordinates of Plato Crater.

@Logan, you might want to look up the part welding mod (forgot the real name) you build a ship, and then "weld" it together to be all one piece. Really helps if your trying to cut down the part count on bases, stations etc.

[Logan.Darklighter]

@Logan, you might want to look up the part welding mod (forgot the real name) you build a ship, and then "weld" it together to be all one piece. Really helps if your trying to cut down the part count on bases, stations etc.

Doesn't that one only work with stock parts though? (Going to check into it anyway since you reminded me of it.)

EDIT: Aw crap... Quote from the UbioZur Welding thread:

"Mods reported to have problems:

Lack luster labs

FAR

Part Catalog (sadly)

Some B9 does not work

KW Roketery have some issues"

Considering that LLL, B9 and KW are the main mods I've been using other than Wayland that's not a good sign. Still - guess I could give it a try anyway and see what happens.

Edited November 28, 2013 by Logan.Darklighter

[wasmic]

I'm sorry to hear that you've lost your job. Good luck finding a new one, Devo!

[Jivaii]

Logan, that giant moon thing, could it be used in conjunction with ExtraPlanetary Launchpads?

[wasmic]

Logan, that giant moon thing, could it be used in conjunction with ExtraPlanetary Launchpads?

It obviously could - you'd just have to copy the launchpad module from the EpLp into the part .cfg for the landing pad. Well, I have an idea for a bug that could happen, which would require a re-export from Devo's side, but that's quite unlikely.

[UltraVires]

EDIT: Aw crap... Quote from the UbioZur Welding thread:

"Mods reported to have problems:

Lack luster labs

FAR

Part Catalog (sadly)

Some B9 does not work

KW Roketery have some issues"

Considering that LLL, B9 and KW are the main mods I've been using other than Wayland that's not a good sign. Still - guess I could give it a try anyway and see what happens.

well, you could probly sub in some stock parts and "weld" those on before you add your mod pieces. Even if it only cuts the part count by half, its will still do your system good I've run into that problem myself, when I build a nice base that looks cool... I'm in lags bane as soon as I load in! lol

[DigitalProeliator]

Is there any tweaking that has to be done to the Eagle parts? I saw the SAS and command pod tweaks a few pages ago but even with the updated parts in the MK 3 folder the engines are to weak to even lift of the launchpad... Or is everyone just hyper editing the ship strait to the moon? lol

[Logan.Darklighter]

Engines too weak to lift off the launchpad? Are you perhaps referring to the main engines at the rear in a vertical launch? Because the VTOLs most certainly DO have more than enough power to get the Eagle off the ground (especially if you're using 4 of them like I do with my various pod mods) and the rear engine has enough delta-v to get you anywhere you need to go in orbital flight and on lower gravity bodies like the Mun.

The main rear engine is less powerful than it once was. But it's very efficient at high altitude and orbit. Basically the Eagle Main Engine performs like a more powerful version of the Squad stock Nuclear Rocket. It might not have quite enough power to lift the Eagle vertically on it's own on heavier gravity worlds like Kerbin or Eve, but the trade-off is that you aren't nose-diving into the ground everytime you turn it on!

I've done a lot of experimenting to find the best Launch to Orbit profile. And I think I've got a couple that are about as fuel efficient as you're going to get with the Eagle.

Come to think of it - I should get on my old Twitch account and run a launch and landing with the Eagle Mk 3 (plus mods) that I use and post it.

[DigitalProeliator]

I think I might have found the issue myself. When comparing the VTOL engines to the ION versions (ION lifts off ok) I realised that the only differance is from the weight of the fuel and when I looked at it in game the stock MK2 has a dry mass of 0.9 but when full of fuel it is over 20 tons... So I think something may need to be tweaked lol. It was trying to use your builds that got me to try the Eagle. I look forward to the Mun base and landing pad you mentioned.

Edit: Ok now Im confused, every tank that takes the same kind of fuel weighs what its suppose to, like the Jumbo is 36 tons, X200-16 is 9 tons ect. So its not a issue with the fuel weight...

Edited November 30, 2013 by DigitalProeliator

[Logan.Darklighter]

I think this is because the main difference between the Eagle Mk 2 and the Eagle Mk 3 is that the Mark 3 uses actual resources in the same way that other stock parts do. In other words, it's not using the magic "Mono-Propellant" fuel that the Mk 2 was.

If you have the Mk 2 mod? Remove it and go get the Mk 3 version just to make sure there's no weird conflict. I've posted the location above in the thread about 2-3 times now and recently. So you shouldn't have to go back too many pages to find it.

Also - in my Eagle Mods and pods download - I actually corrected some of the issues with propagating the parts from compatibility with .22 sandbox mode. That includes some tweaks to the VTOL and Main Engines (Including the lack of SOUND). Again - I posted the links above in a previous post.

Also - I've just posted a video at Twitch showing a launch of the Eagle to orbit and some commentary.

Wayland Eagle Mk 3 VTOL lift-off to orbit commentary