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[0.22.X] BobCat ind. Historical spacecraft thread

BobCat

By BobCat
in KSP1 Mod Releases

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Toyotawolf

Toyotawolf

Posted
Posted
im still rest... im dont like new update KSP... new ASAS work strange...

Agreed, I think a lot of us are not super happy with it, especially the impact on performance, I hope it doesn't make upgrading your previous mods too difficult, I know Devo from wayland has lost many hairs over it

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Thourion

Thourion

Posted
Posted

Im sorry to say, but i had a sad face all over, after giving Buran a go. You really cant touch the controls, otherwise it goes all over the place. Dunno maybe im getting used to the new ASAS, flying the weirdest aircraft design i can come up with no problem.

But yeah, i tried to be as carefull as i can, toggling oldASAS with F key, in order to just rotate the ship, nevermind trying to manually control the ascent profile... it was a pain.

(Hmm i didnt test Mechjeb on it though, although still that flapping i see on the surfaces from the old asas behavior is making me scream)

On the other hand Soyuz for example with the new ASAS, just goes like it used to, even better i might add.

So in the end, and yeah i didnt do many launches this time, but i believe that IF and WHEN you manage to make the new ASAS concept on the Buran work, it will bring it back to its throne of "My favorite mod craft of all time"... well im biased, so even if you dont update it anymore it will still be on that place lol

Thanks for your work, and dont bother with my mumblings much :P

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Deltac

Deltac

Posted
Posted

I gave it a go trying to get the new SAS (not ASAS people!) to work with the Buran. Unfortunately, the new SAS can't seem to handle the Buran. It flaps, it flops, and it woobles. This was all testing done from the Space Plane Hangar, so no Energia's were harmed during the testing.

Something about the Buran is unstable. It would probably need a dedicated fly by wire system instead of stock SAS. However, I didn't have any problems flying it by myself. The old ASAS even works better than the New SAS in keeping the Buran in one direction, just won't let you maneuver like the New SAS can.

Side note: If New SAS get's an update and can handle Buran in the future, then what you can do, Bobcat, is just put the SAS module into the Crew Section, and combine that Nose tip with the Nose RCS part.

Also, example config of Buran Crew Part config if New SAS becomes viable. Important changes underlined:


PART
{
// --- general parameters ---
name = Buran Crew 
module = [u]Part[/u]  <<<<<Squad says "NOPE" to CommandPod module now.

author = BobCat

// --- asset parameters ---
mesh = model.mu
rescaleFactor = 1

CoMOffset = 0.0, 0.0, -0.4077612

// --- node definitions ---
// definition format is Position X, Position Y, Position Z, Up X, Up Y, Up Z
node_stack_top = 0.0, 1.217393, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0,2
node_stack_bottom = 0.0, -1.02462, -0.4077612, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0,2
node_stack_airlock = 0.0, -1.217393, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0,2

// --- editor parameters ---
cost = 80
category = Pods
subcategory = 0
title = Buran Crew Section
manufacturer = BobCat ind
description = 
// attachment rules: stack, srfAttach, allowStack, allowSrfAttach, allowCollision
attachRules = 1,0,1,1,0

// --- standard part parameters ---
mass = 4
dragModelType = default
maximum_drag = 0.2
minimum_drag = 0.2
angularDrag = 1
crashTolerance = 50
maxTemp = 1650
breakingForce = 630
breakingTorque = 630

CrewCapacity = 5

vesselType = Ship

INTERNAL
{
  name = Buran_interior
}

MODULE
{
	name = ModuleCommand
	minimumCrew = 1
}


RESOURCE
{
	name = ElectricCharge
	amount = 1050
	maxAmount = 1050
}

MODULE
{
	[u]name = ModuleSAS[/u]  <<<<<<<<This goes here, just like the stock stuff!  But only in future hopefully.
}

MODULE
{
	[u]name = ModuleReactionWheel[/u]   <<<<<<No More Free torque!

	PitchTorque = 15
	YawTorque = 15
	RollTorque = 15

	RESOURCE
	{
		name = ElectricCharge
		rate = 1.2
	}
}

}

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NeoMorph

NeoMorph

Posted
Posted

Has anyone got the LER Cargo variety of Altair to orbit WITHOUT one or two of the LER rovers floating away through the fairing. I've tried strutting the thing down but I find nothing helps. And of course if one floats away it means the lander is hopelessly out of balance so it is impossible to land the darn thing.

Basically the LER variety is a failure in my book (which is a shame because the rest work wonderfully well).

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MDBenson

MDBenson

Posted
Posted

There seems to be something weird with decouplers in 0.21.1, both radial and in-line. Radially coupled boosters seem to be prone to breaking off and I've had some inline decouplers lead to rockets bending over violently and falling in half. All this is WHEN using struts, the struts don't seem to make much difference, even if I use NovaPunch super-strong ones.

The new ASAS is great... for some things. I think they should have switchable modes between the new style 'smooth' ASAS and the old style 'fast' ASAS really, or even have a variable rate setting for the adjustments and allow us to tune it ourselves. It's hopeless for launching the CSS shuttle too, it can't adjust the gimbal fast enough to prevent it going nose-over forwards, whereas the older 'fast' ASAS looked silly but worked just fine (so got stuck back on it via TSAS) :)

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Thourion

Thourion

Posted
Posted (edited)
...

Something about the Buran is unstable. It would probably need a dedicated fly by wire system instead of stock SAS. However, I didn't have any problems flying it by myself. The old ASAS even works better than the New SAS in keeping the Buran in one direction, just won't let you maneuver like the New SAS can...

Well i gave it a few goes myself. I made your changes for the pod, did similar thing to the avionics nose. I also moded the RSC nose cone, to remove the old

"SASmodule" along with the KI KP KD lines, made it a "Part" as well.

The VAB Buran made orbit again and again. I was especially concerned if it could hold heading during rotation, i also didnt see to much of the "flapping wings" effect during vertical ascent.

After ejection of side SRBs, still the same good control. Grav turn all good. Same thing around "space" near 70-80 kms, although there it needs care if you want to roll the craft so the main Booster is below Buran (Kerbin perspective of course). Raising apo with the remaining fuel.

Seperation of the booster, with new sas still left on, no problems whatsoever. RCS a bit to get some distance, and burn main engines to circ.

In my opinion making orbit with new sas, is way easier than without. (Take note that Turning it off, either if you fly with old or new sas, and go all the way manual, has nothing to do with what we talking about here. It is totally viable method btw lol)

Now the weird stuff happens when you get back to KSP runway. Everything is fine, burn to lower PE, do adjustments near 40+ kms if needed, enter atmo, see the normal fireworks (as with any other craft), and then under 12kms abouts, you start to see the wing flapping again.

It still holds steady, you still can manually correct, but you still have the constant flappin and jiggling. Of course at this point, i usually turn off sas and do manual touchdown (its smooth as silk anyway).

So in the end i believe that something is going on with current aerodynamics of the craft, maybe along with CoL/CoM changes, drag/lift of parts etc etc. You can see that with the SPH Buran, where you stand on the runway, SAS always ON, nothing happens. Start the engines rolling off, still nothing but the second your nose gear goes airborne you get the flapaflap.

If you try to keep something like 45 degrees ascent, the flaping reduces, it even stops at some point especially above 6kms. If you try to level the craft, keeping it near 0 at almost any altitude inside atmo, then the flappers flap like a happy pinguin.

Note also that, during SAS recover mode (when you stop giving commands and it goes to stabilize the craft), you dont see any flaping, it does smooth slow changes here and there until recover resets, where you see the pingpong starting again.

EDIT: Ehh, well i made my usual monstrocity and removed both ctr surfaces, along with the vertical ctr surface (i dont know if the vertical one has a problem though). I left the wings as they were, so only the surfaces. I placed stock winglets, but of course, since they are totally different i needed to add a few more to be able to balance the craft and take off.

Resault? No jiggling whatsoever, full aircraft control. I totally removed any extra modules from the nose "Buran_avionicsection", so its just a part, and like above only left the RCS module for the "Buran_rcssection" part. Pod cfg is just like Deltac's above.

So i guess the jiggleflap song, comes from the ctr surfaces themselfes (sas isnt able to handle them properly). Of course my craft probably will have balance problems later on when i drain some fuel, and i didnt dare to use it as the VAB version lol.

Anyway im sure someone more comfortable with ctrl surfaces can edit the Buran ones. Something along the lines of "deflectionLiftCoeff" value or whatever.

But of course i could be wrong, and just the fact of puting the stock controls, and changing the CoL did play a part also... I dunno at this point the heat is killing me, so im off for some cold shower and stuff.

Ah and before i go, ive notice the jiggling from Burans ctrl surfaces comes in "Roll". It doesnt flap up down, neither yawing, it just cant handle the roll methings. While with the stock surfaces it goes where you tell it to go.

Edited by Thourion
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Thourion

Thourion

Posted
Posted
Thourion

I dont understand what peoblem?

Buran lose control in subsonic speed? You can make video?

No no no, i was talking about its problems when modified to fly with the new SAS system. It doesnt loose control, it just flaps around trying to keep heading when you turn SAS on. It does manage to keep it steady, only it just jiggles allot.

I went and removed the sas module from avionics nose, removed it also from the RSC part, and made the crew pod with Deltac's cfg.

With more tests i only reduced "deflectionLiftCoeff" values from all 3 Buran controls (Buran_LWcontrol, Buran_RWcontrol and Buran_tailcontrol).

This way it flies just fine with the new SAS from the pod (in VAB or SPH mode).

So the more you reduce that value the less flap it has, but also less lift so it needs some optimal tweaking.

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Thourion

Thourion

Posted
Posted

Well thats good to hear about atmo.

In space yeah i can imagine docking situations will have problems, especially with different payloads on.

But im sure you will either find a solution, or Squad may do more changes as well.

Ill keep messing around though, cos its fun :D

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CAPFlyer

CAPFlyer

Posted
Posted
Ahh...main problem new ASAS not in atmo fly (I think i can fix that). Main problem in space , assymetrical RCS and assymetrical CoM no good for new ASAS.

Have you thought about integrating KerbCom Avionics? It is specifically designed for fixing that problem. Also, remember the new SAS (there is no ASAS) is pretty much a KILLROT module, so it's not going to care about CoM or assymmetric RCS, it just wants to keep the ship pointing in the last zero input direction. You need to either balance your RCS manually (i.e. changing the maximum thrust output of them to "balance" their exerted force) or use a module to automatically throttle them. Remember, both BURAN and the Shuttle used digital autopilots for all maneuvers, so there was never direct manual control of the RCS or control surfaces like with KSP. There was always a computer interpreting control inputs and then commanding the RCS or surfaces to generate the result.

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Synthesis

Synthesis

Posted
Posted (edited)

I hate to sound like I'm complaining again, but I can't get a break--I installed the 0.21 update of the Soviet Pack, Bobcat, and now I get a crash way through loading. Not sure what could be causing it, I'm going to try trimming down the Soviet pack so I just get the Soyuz parts I really want most.

Anyone else have this issue?

EDIT: Well, removing the ISS, Salyut, and Buran parts seemed to make it stable. :) Glad Soyuz is back for me. Question: is the docking node on the Soyuz U or Soyuz TMA actually compatible with anything? The in-game docking ring? Or is it just intended to hold the escape system in place?

Edited by Synthesis
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Thourion

Thourion

Posted
Posted
I hate to sound like I'm complaining again, but I can't get a break--I installed the 0.21 update of the Soviet Pack, Bobcat, and now I get a crash way through loading. Not sure what could be causing it, I'm going to try trimming down the Soviet pack so I just get the Soyuz parts I really want most.

Anyone else have this issue?

EDIT: Well, removing the ISS, Salyut, and Buran parts seemed to make it stable. :) Glad Soyuz is back for me. Question: is the docking node on the Soyuz U or Soyuz TMA actually compatible with anything? The in-game docking ring? Or is it just intended to hold the escape system in place?

Well i believe its KSP doing its thing again, with its known memory problem. I had crashes myself during loading, but if for example, you remove all other mods and use only the Soviet pack you dont get any trouble. So for me that proves that its not this mod problem.

The Solution is exactly what you did though. Either trim down the soviet pack, or trim other mod parts you dont use.

About the docking, yeah it should be compatible with all "size1" parts. Meaning also the stock clamp-o-trons, the inline etc (not the junior or the large of course thats size0 and size2)

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Synthesis

Synthesis

Posted
Posted
Well i believe its KSP doing its thing again, with its known memory problem. I had crashes myself during loading, but if for example, you remove all other mods and use only the Soviet pack you dont get any trouble. So for me that proves that its not this mod problem.

The Solution is exactly what you did though. Either trim down the soviet pack, or trim other mod parts you dont use.

About the docking, yeah it should be compatible with all "size1" parts. Meaning also the stock clamp-o-trons, the inline etc (not the junior or the large of course thats size0 and size2)

Really? That's very informative, thank you--I'll need to check if KOSMO's rings are size=1 as well, they are that size but they may not be encoded as such (I could never get them to work with the default parts).

Good to hear that Soyuz can dock with stock parts though!

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NeoMorph

NeoMorph

Posted
Posted

Oh god... I was SOOOO in the wrong regarding the LER rovers. Turns out the stock rockets have one of the actual rover separators in the wrong stage... that was all. When I staged to get into orbit finally it was kicking loose the one rover to float through the darn fairing.

Sorry for saying the LER's sucked Bobcat lol... was just that darn sep that sucked.

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XbasmanX

XbasmanX

Posted
Posted
That new version of the buran with jet engines and powered wheels looks smexy! When will it be released?

one question though, what type of jet does it use Basic or Turbojet?

Darth, it is already apart of the new Soviet Pack!!!

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Deltac

Deltac

Posted
Posted
Heres a video of its capabilitys.

i wonder why he Didn't announce the update or post the above video seperately.

he did

Update 1.8.9

1.8.9

- Buran and Klipper return old ASAS

- Add Buran jet engines

- Add SPH and VAB Buran craft files

- Add steering forward landing gear

- Fix Buran fly model

- Fix Buran CoM

The view first unread button doesn't always take you to the first post YOU haven't read. We'll have to complain to the web devs.

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