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[0.22.X] BobCat ind. Historical spacecraft thread

BobCat

By BobCat
in KSP1 Mod Releases

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KhaosCorp

KhaosCorp

Posted
Posted (edited)
Out of curiosity, if I was to rescale the orion pod for 3.75m, what would the rescale factor be?

What is the current size and rescale set to? If there is no rescale listed then its 1.25 (that being default).

edit: after looking at it 1.3 may be close, since its an off size your probably gonna have to figit with it a bit.

Edited by KhaosCorp
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Guest

Guest

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You aren't using a joystick, are you? Accidentally bumping the main stick while doing translation (easy if you're using a "sub-stick" or Saitek trackball on the handle) will disengage ASAS. But it seems that you're not. Oddly, I've never seen this, I'll have to run some tests.

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Deltac

Deltac

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You aren't using a joystick, are you? Accidentally bumping the main stick while doing translation (easy if you're using a "sub-stick" or Saitek trackball on the handle) will disengage ASAS. But it seems that you're not. Oddly, I've never seen this, I'll have to run some tests.

This is actually an old "bug". I put bug in quotes here because in order to "fix" it, we would need some additions to KSP, not fixes for whats there. In .21, I remember they tried implementing an RCS balancer when you press caps lock. I tried it in .22, but the balancer didn't seem to be there. For all intents and purposes, the kliper and buran have imbalanced RCS arrangements. In real life, it's a simple thing of programming a translate-by-wire (fly-by-wire anyone?) system that will control each port so that you have a smooth translation. In vanilla KSP, we have no such thing. Each port fires at the same amount no matter what.

As for MechJeb's RCS balancer, for me at least, it did not work with the Kliper. It completely disabled some ports, meaning translation was even worse!

Anyway, this is a problem Squad is already aware of, and they'll get to it when they can.

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Guest

Guest

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This is actually an old "bug". I put bug in quotes here because in order to "fix" it, we would need some additions to KSP, not fixes for whats there. In .21, I remember they tried implementing an RCS balancer when you press caps lock. I tried it in .22, but the balancer didn't seem to be there. For all intents and purposes, the kliper and buran have imbalanced RCS arrangements. In real life, it's a simple thing of programming a translate-by-wire (fly-by-wire anyone?) system that will control each port so that you have a smooth translation. In vanilla KSP, we have no such thing. Each port fires at the same amount no matter what.

As for MechJeb's RCS balancer, for me at least, it did not work with the Kliper. It completely disabled some ports, meaning translation was even worse!

Anyway, this is a problem Squad is already aware of, and they'll get to it when they can.

No, this is not an old bug and shouldn't be happening at all! Watch the video once again, paying attention to the ASAS indicator. You'll notice that when he translates in a "broken" direction, the ASAS switches to "override" mode. Note, all other directions are compensated properly. Besides, given those ships are symmetrical, yet only one out of 6 translation directions cause rotation, you should've noticed something is off. A symmetrical ship unbalanced on one axis would've rotated with at least two kinds of input. This bug lies somewhere in ASAS input processing, it shouldn't be switching to "override" during translation.

Edited by Guest
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Thourion

Thourion

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No, this is not an old bug and shouldn't be happening at all! Watch the video once again, paying attention to the ASAS indicator. You'll notice that when he translates in a "broken" direction, the ASAS switches to "override" mode. Note, all other directions are compensated properly. Besides, given those ships are symmetrical, yet only one out of 6 translation directions cause rotation, you should've noticed something is off. A symmetrical ship unbalanced on one axis would've rotated with at least two kinds of input. This bug lies somewhere in ASAS input processing, it shouldn't be switching to "override" during translation.

Hmm i just had that problem yesterday, with a ssto craft made totally out of B9 parts only. I used only 4 rcs ports, again from B9 pack, and the attitude was exact same as in Bobcats video.

The only thing i can think of, is that B9's pacs as well as Bobcats, use their own Asas/sas parts, (either as seperate parts, and/or included in their pods) instead of a stock craft using stocks. So far this thing doesnt happen with stock, or at least i havnt stumble into it. Happens in stock as well.

Edited by Thourion
Edited because it happens in stock as well.
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Deltac

Deltac

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No, this is not an old bug and shouldn't be happening at all! Watch the video once again, paying attention to the ASAS indicator. You'll notice that when he translates in a "broken" direction, the ASAS switches to "override" mode. Note, all other directions are compensated properly. Besides, given those ships are symmetrical, yet only one out of 6 translation directions cause rotation, you should've noticed something is off. A symmetrical ship unbalanced on one axis would've rotated with at least two kinds of input. This bug lies somewhere in ASAS input processing, it shouldn't be switching to "override" during translation.

So many quotes!

This confusion lies with Bobcat not describing the problem. I thought this was all about ye olde RCS balancing. The Buran and Kliper do have off balance RCS thrusters if they fire off at the same strength. So I take it the new SAS has RCS balancer in it then? And the new balancer isn't working properly for all directions.

New video description: Bug report for Squad. New SAS doesn't translate properly in all directions.

Also, I thought it was just called SAS now, and the old control system was the anti roll SAS, and the ASAS that never let you change directions no matter what. We'll have to get C7 to declare a final word on that.

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Guest

Guest

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So many quotes!

This confusion lies with Bobcat not describing the problem. I thought this was all about ye olde RCS balancing. The Buran and Kliper do have off balance RCS thrusters if they fire off at the same strength. So I take it the new SAS has RCS balancer in it then? And the new balancer isn't working properly for all directions.

New video description: Bug report for Squad. New SAS doesn't translate properly in all directions.

Also, I thought it was just called SAS now, and the old control system was the anti roll SAS, and the ASAS that never let you change directions no matter what. We'll have to get C7 to declare a final word on that.

It's already been settled. What we knew as ASAS has been taken out, the replacement is called SAS. The "anti-roll SAS" has been turned into reaction wheels. Also, the new SAS indeed has an RCS balancer. It also has a feature that hands controls off to you if you try to rotate, which is great. Now, the bug is that for some reason, it seems to think that you're giving rotational input when you're in fact giving translational input, and turning off stabilization when it shouldn't. The really weird thing about it is that it only happens in one direction.

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Thourion

Thourion

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Anyway yeah i made a simple stock rocket for test, 3 man pod-decoupler-stock 2m ASAS-bigRCS-Fuel-Engine, 4rcs ports around CoM.

The second flight same craft with 8 ports 4 front-4back from the CoM.

Both flights had the same bug in only the one direction. Notice that if you use normal mode, instead of docking, and utilize the IJKL keys the bug does not appear.

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Guest

Guest

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Ah, so that's why it didn't came up during my tests. As a HOTAS user, I use a thumbstick for translation, meaning I have no use for docking mode. That's why I missed this bug.

So, this means it's definitely an input bug. I'd say we've got it pretty well isolated, Squad should have no problem squashing it with this info. It's probably a small oversight in ASAS-docking mode communication.

Edited by Guest
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Cunicularius

Cunicularius

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So I am not the only one having issues with attitude control in the Buran? I think mine may be a little more extensive though, my gyros don't seem to work at all. In the manual, it said something about a toggle-capable ASAS plugin being required, but when this was present, it did not alleviate the problem, I have just been adding my own ASAS between the cabin and airlock. As for the rcs thrusters, they are inherently unstable, aren't they? The ship will rock during horizontal translations, and there seem to be severe problems with performing rolls. I can add extra RCS ports to help, but not on the wingtips, and not with continued stability issues. Flying the plane in autopilot with MechJeb in a vacuum also continues to be impossible,it does not seem to be capable of stabilizing itself during any attitude adjustment, and often rotates around the node it is supposed to be facing, resulting in either a deorbit or having to manually attempt to compensate.

I have read some of what has been discussed above, this is ASAS related problem because of RCS balance from .21? And why does it afflict Buran and Kliper? Will we have to wait for .23 for fix?

And more specifically, my peculiar problem with gyros that was not demonstrated in video, is this because of problem with not having "Toggle-Capable ASAS" noted in manual? Because like I'd said, it did not seem to work when installed.

Answers and explanations would be much appreciated.

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Chimer4

Chimer4

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So I've just re-downloaded the soviet pack and tried to use the buran + energia, but it said I was missing the buran manipulator. Now I have downloaded the robotic arms pack and added it in, and also put the stuff for the buran arm in the buran folder in the soviet pack, but I didn't download the romfarer plugin stuff. Is that stuff necessary to simply load the craft? I personally do not like the stuff in the romfarer plugin (but hey that's just me) but I thought that I would be able to load the craft file if I have the assets there, but it appears that I cannot.

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Prowler_x1

Prowler_x1

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So I've just re-downloaded the soviet pack and tried to use the buran + energia, but it said I was missing the buran manipulator. Now I have downloaded the robotic arms pack and added it in, and also put the stuff for the buran arm in the buran folder in the soviet pack, but I didn't download the romfarer plugin stuff. Is that stuff necessary to simply load the craft? I personally do not like the stuff in the romfarer plugin (but hey that's just me) but I thought that I would be able to load the craft file if I have the assets there, but it appears that I cannot.

yes, youre missing the romfarer dll which makes the arm work

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Prowler_x1

Prowler_x1

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So I tried Ferram's new mod out on a completely unstrutted version of the N1, and it seems only the top section of the rocket keeps the woobles. The rigid rocket mod only released today, so we'll see what happens :D

Very true, I detected the weak spot under the service module for the LOK and the service module for the LK. Somewhere on that lander the wobbliness lives on as we speak.

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BobCat

BobCat

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Chad "á7" Jenkins answered from ASAS bug video

I've found the problem and fixed it here. It will be included in the next version of KSP when it updates. It turns out there was a specific case when in docking mode that would cause the input detection to fail, and only when translating left.

So... in 0.23 Buran and Klipper have good orital operations again

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sirkut

sirkut

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Chad "á7" Jenkins answered from ASAS bug video

So... in 0.23 Buran and Klipper have good orital operations again

Glad the bug was spotted and sorted out. It pained me to not be able to use the Buran for a supply mission to my Mir station.

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wasmic

wasmic

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So I've just re-downloaded the soviet pack and tried to use the buran + energia, but it said I was missing the buran manipulator. Now I have downloaded the robotic arms pack and added it in, and also put the stuff for the buran arm in the buran folder in the soviet pack, but I didn't download the romfarer plugin stuff. Is that stuff necessary to simply load the craft? I personally do not like the stuff in the romfarer plugin (but hey that's just me) but I thought that I would be able to load the craft file if I have the assets there, but it appears that I cannot.

Well, the plugin doesn't really alter your game. It allows you to go in first person mode with your Kerbals, but not much more, I think. You don't have to install the LAZORs for the plugin to work. Or am I misinterpreting what you say?

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KhaosCorp

KhaosCorp

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In order to load the either of the included Buran craft files you need the Robotics arm pack AND the lazor.dll.

If your like me and HATE the lazor mod here is what ya do (personaly I wont play on an install thats had that mod installed...even when uninstalled it seems to manage messing up my game....):

Clone your KSP install (stock install would be best)

Load the SovietPack, Lazor Systems, and Robotics arm pack, start the game.

Load Buran, remove arms, resave the craft.

Toss the arms free buran into your main game

PROFIT!!

Would be nice to have versions of these craft that are NOT dependant on having another mod installed just to load......

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sirkut

sirkut

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In order to load the either of the included Buran craft files you need the Robotics arm pack AND the lazor.dll.

If your like me and HATE the lazor mod here is what ya do (personaly I wont play on an install thats had that mod installed...even when uninstalled it seems to manage messing up my game....):

Clone your KSP install (stock install would be best)

Load the SovietPack, Lazor Systems, and Robotics arm pack, start the game.

Load Buran, remove arms, resave the craft.

Toss the arms free buran into your main game

PROFIT!!

Would be nice to have versions of these craft that are NOT dependant on having another mod installed just to load......

Or just remove the whole part in the craft file. beats having to clone the whole game.

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