[0.22] B9 Aerospace Pack / R4.0c / New pods, IVAs, engines, fuselages & structures

[Raptor831]

I've got a question. I seem to be experiencing a glitch, and I can't figure it out. I've been trying my hand at a large-payload (~40 tons) SSTO with this pack. My problem is I can't get any air-breathing engines to be effective above ~20,000 meters, no matter how many intakes I spam. I figured it was my poor design skills, so I downloaded this plane here: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/34382. Watching the video, he's up at 40,000 meters with air to spare. So I take it for a spin, hit 20,000 meters and flameout. So, is there something I goofed up installing? What would make my intakes not work like that? Also, here's the craft file I've been making, just for reference: Link It will need B9 and KW Rocketry, I don't think I used anything else on that one.

This is driving me nuts, so any help would be great! I just hope it's not me being dense...

[GenMcMuster]

See http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/35018-1-0-PartCatalog-Create-Order-out-of-Chaos!

and

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/34779-0-20-Simple-Part-Organizer-(v0-200)

These are both fantastic solutions (and work well together too) It's a great answer to the wonderful bloating that is a modded KSP

[MR4Y]

I had this problem too.(in my case) I found out that it have to do something with the position of the front gear. I moved it more to the back and than it worked.

I tried this, but the big SABRE egine get's destryoed during takeoff, since there is no able place to put the wheels.

and just when I got Subassembly Loader working... :c

[Castun]

Has anyone else had issues with wing mounted turbines not providing symmetrical thrust, even though the aircraft itself was built 100% symmetrically? I've noticed on certain builds of mine, one engine supplied slightly more thrust than the other, so once you got up high enough, you yaw into a flat spin if you don't manage the throttle. It even had some affect on takeoffs, as it had a slight pull to the side.

[KhaosCorp]

I want to build HL based SSTO.

Problem is I really am guessing as to how to fly them proper. Been trying to practice with the B9 Heinlein, and I have gotten to orbit a couple times but only just. Please, ohhh pretty please someone message me with what a basic SSTO flight profile would be like, please (Id prefer PM as not to muddy this thread up to much with my noobness)

[Evil Beaver]

there any reason why you don't put the fuel and RCS tanks in the Propulsion category?

[Babalas]

I want to build HL based SSTO.

Problem is I really am guessing as to how to fly them proper. Been trying to practice with the B9 Heinlein, and I have gotten to orbit a couple times but only just. Please, ohhh pretty please someone message me with what a basic SSTO flight profile would be like, please (Id prefer PM as not to muddy this thread up to much with my noobness)

Here is my little training craft I used to play around with the SABRE engines. Its basically, avionics, cockpit, LFO tank, tail and has 2 100 LF side tanks (from firespitter) mounted on the side. Just below the fuel tanks are the smaller air intakes from the B9 pack. This thing takes off easily, climbs fast, and has plenty of fuel even after landing at the port.

[MR4Y]

I'm sorta giving up...

None of my B9 space planes can go past 11 Km high. As soon as they reach this altitude, they start falling back into the ground.

[bac9]

I'm sorta giving up...

None of my B9 space planes can go past 11 Km high. As soon as they reach this altitude, they start falling back into the ground.

Check example crafts and learn from them.

I want to build HL based SSTO.

Problem is I really am guessing as to how to fly them proper. Been trying to practice with the B9 Heinlein, and I have gotten to orbit a couple times but only just. Please, ohhh pretty please someone message me with what a basic SSTO flight profile would be like, please (Id prefer PM as not to muddy this thread up to much with my noobness)

That's pretty weird, BRV-4 Heinlein is extremely overpowered (five engines, large fuel reserve, little mass, no payload), so it can go into orbit using less than half of the fuel reserves and is forgiving to absolutely ridiculous mistakes. It's pretty hard to waste all the fuel on it and just get into orbit.

Flying it is very simple, just climb fast to 10-15km then level out, kill most of your vertical speed and gain velocity as high as possible. Climb slowly from 15k, preferrably within 10 degrees over the horizon, so that you can push the plane to the fastest possible speed without losing air. As you go faster, you get more air intake, allowing yourself to climb even higher without flameouts, allowing yourself to speed up more due to lesser drag. When air intake gets into 15-10% area, cut the throttle of the engine to 75% and continue to climb, that will cut air intake requirements significantly and will delay the flameout further. Cut the throttle further just before the switch if you can sustain the vertical speed with it. Also, don't forget to watch your prograde vector on the navball and pitch upwards: at high altitudes, nothing ever flies horizontally oriented as there is too little air to hold you. If you want to fly horizontally, find an angle of attack that will keep you there, which will be noticeably higher than horizon. When I'm saying "climb within 10 degrees" , that's your prograde marker, not your spaceplane orientation, which could be 30 degrees up even.

Ideally you should be going no slower than 1200-1500m/s and no lower than 25km at the point of switching to oxidizer. Return to full throttle upon switching to it, keep going almost horizontally while stabilizing yourself with RCS. It's best not to burn upwards, keep burning almost horizontally, maybe 20 degrees upwards if you insist on reducing little drag that is left at this point even faster. Getting extremely long trajectory to AP is better than getting up there with a steep trajectory as it will be a lot easier to circularize when you already have most of the orbital velocity needed. Ideally, you will only need a quite short push at AP to raise your PE over the surface and into low orbit.

Edited June 10, 2013 by bac9

[KhaosCorp]

I was going for a rather steep steady climb on those trys, burned a lot of fuel trying to get speed...

Did I mention Im a bad pilot in atmosphere =P

[Firov]

I'm sorta giving up...

None of my B9 space planes can go past 11 Km high. As soon as they reach this altitude, they start falling back into the ground.

Out of curiosity, are you using the B9 intakes and the FAR mod? If so, that's your problem. Do not, under any circumstances, use the B9 air intakes along with the FAR mod unless you're prepared to deal with the obscene amounts of drag that generates right now. The next version of FAR should fix that, but I'm not really sure when it's going to be out.

[MR4Y]

Check example crafts and learn from them.

That's pretty weird, BRV-4 Heinlein is extremely overpowered (five engines, large fuel reserve, little mass, no payload), so it can go into orbit using less than half of the fuel reserves and is forgiving to absolutely ridiculous mistakes. It's pretty hard to waste all the fuel on it and just get into orbit.

Flying it is very simple, just climb fast to 10-15km then level out, kill most of your vertical speed and gain velocity as high as possible. Climb slowly from 15k, preferrably within 10 degrees over the horizon, so that you can push the plane to the fastest possible speed without losing air. As you go faster, you get more air intake, allowing yourself to climb even higher without flameouts, allowing yourself to speed up more due to lesser drag. When air intake gets into 15-10% area, cut the throttle of the engine to 75% and continue to climb, that will cut air intake requirements significantly and will delay the flameout further. Cut the throttle further just before the switch if you can sustain the vertical speed with it. Also, don't forget to watch your prograde vector on the navball and pitch upwards: at high altitudes, nothing ever flies horizontally oriented as there is too little air to hold you. If you want to fly horizontally, find an angle of attack that will keep you there, which will be noticeably higher than horizon. When I'm saying "climb within 10 degrees" , that's your prograde marker, not your spaceplane orientation, which could be 30 degrees up even.

Ideally you should be going no slower than 1200-1500m/s and no lower than 25km at the point of switching to oxidizer. Return to full throttle upon switching to it, keep going almost horizontally while stabilizing yourself with RCS. It's best not to burn upwards, keep burning almost horizontally, maybe 20 degrees upwards if you insist on reducing little drag that is left at this point even faster. Getting extremely long trajectory to AP is better than getting up there with a steep trajectory as it will be a lot easier to circularize when you already have most of the orbital velocity needed. Ideally, you will only need a quite short push at AP to raise your PE over the surface and into low orbit.

And I was able to get to orbit with not much fuel left and almost no oxidizer with this plane. I don't understand the concept of climbing fast with this plane, mainly because I have to correct it almost everytime as it wants to yaw then roll as you try to correct it. It also refuses to fly upwards, even with SAS on. With SAS on, all it does it's shake from one side to the other and doesn't care about pitch. That doens't seem to happen with the planes I build with stock parts.

[MR4Y]

Out of curiosity, are you using the B9 intakes and the FAR mod? If so, that's your problem. Do not, under any circumstances, use the B9 air intakes along with the FAR mod unless you're prepared to deal with the obscene amounts of drag that generates right now. The next version of FAR should fix that, but I'm not really sure when it's going to be out.

Not using FAR.

[moxzot]

I'm sorta giving up...

None of my B9 space planes can go past 11 Km high. As soon as they reach this altitude, they start falling back into the ground.

if you are using the engine with intakes built in them then thats why

[MR4Y]

if you are using the engine with intakes built in them then thats why

I don't think I understood what you meant by that.

[Babalas]

And I was able to get to orbit with not much fuel left and almost no oxidizer with this plane. I don't understand the concept of climbing fast with this plane, mainly because I have to correct it almost everytime as it wants to yaw then roll as you try to correct it. It also refuses to fly upwards, even with SAS on. With SAS on, all it does it's shake from one side to the other and doesn't care about pitch. That doens't seem to happen with the planes I build with stock parts.

Yeah I've noticed with ASAS the nose tends to dip. Same thing happens with using remote tech. When I turn it off I can point fine. I remember reading somewhere on this forum that it was something to do with the size of the craft. Could also be having a CoL too far behind the CoM. The air RCS controls are great for giving a bit more control.

[Max Q]

Here is my little training craft I used to play around with the SABRE engines. Its basically, avionics, cockpit, LFO tank, tail and has 2 100 LF side tanks (from firespitter) mounted on the side. Just below the fuel tanks are the smaller air intakes from the B9 pack. This thing takes off easily, climbs fast, and has plenty of fuel even after landing at the port.

Nice! More proof that the simplest designs are the ones that work best.

[Raptor831]

That's pretty weird, BRV-4 Heinlein is extremely overpowered (five engines, large fuel reserve, little mass, no payload), so it can go into orbit using less than half of the fuel reserves and is forgiving to absolutely ridiculous mistakes. It's pretty hard to waste all the fuel on it and just get into orbit.

Flying it is very simple, just climb fast to 10-15km then level out, kill most of your vertical speed and gain velocity as high as possible. Climb slowly from 15k, preferrably within 10 degrees over the horizon, so that you can push the plane to the fastest possible speed without losing air. As you go faster, you get more air intake, allowing yourself to climb even higher without flameouts, allowing yourself to speed up more due to lesser drag. When air intake gets into 15-10% area, cut the throttle of the engine to 75% and continue to climb, that will cut air intake requirements significantly and will delay the flameout further. Cut the throttle further just before the switch if you can sustain the vertical speed with it. Also, don't forget to watch your prograde vector on the navball and pitch upwards: at high altitudes, nothing ever flies horizontally oriented as there is too little air to hold you. If you want to fly horizontally, find an angle of attack that will keep you there, which will be noticeably higher than horizon. When I'm saying "climb within 10 degrees" , that's your prograde marker, not your spaceplane orientation, which could be 30 degrees up even.

Ideally you should be going no slower than 1200-1500m/s and no lower than 25km at the point of switching to oxidizer. Return to full throttle upon switching to it, keep going almost horizontally while stabilizing yourself with RCS. It's best not to burn upwards, keep burning almost horizontally, maybe 20 degrees upwards if you insist on reducing little drag that is left at this point even faster. Getting extremely long trajectory to AP is better than getting up there with a steep trajectory as it will be a lot easier to circularize when you already have most of the orbital velocity needed. Ideally, you will only need a quite short push at AP to raise your PE over the surface and into low orbit.

So obviously my "bug" really should be "pilot error". <facepalm> Been trying to just climb at 45 degrees all the way up. If speed determines some airflow, then that's why my planes aren't working. At least maybe they're overbuilt now, once I do a proper flight profile.

[madspy]

Gah! This is really infuriating! This is the best mod I have seen and every time I try to use it I get runtime errors, crashes, freezing and the game closing with no message or crash file whatsoever!

Edited June 10, 2013 by madspy

[moxzot]

I don't think I understood what you meant by that.

http://i.imgur.com/hWOrc05.jpg http://i.imgur.com/e6iMwdH.jpg

These two engine is what i ment

[MR4Y]

http://i.imgur.com/hWOrc05.jpg http://i.imgur.com/e6iMwdH.jpg

These two engine is what i ment

Nope. I'm using SABRE engines.

[mrrpamplemousse]

does somebody aleready notice that?

[runmug]

i'm only getting a few parts cockpits i have but i only have a few structural pieces and wing segments (no Ctrl surf)

[Castun]

Looks like a structural panel that's missing some key definitions from it's part.cfg (the name, description, and manufacturer all default to that if you don't define them.)

[mrrpamplemousse]

just a bug? I was hoping for a secret easter egg