Proper space explosions?

[Kerbface]

Obviously there are plenty of things in KSP that breach reality for practical, gameplay or aesthetic purposes, but how would people feel about having more realistic space explosions? There is no atmosphere in space, so an explosion would not look like that on Earth. If I'm not mistaken, it would create a gradually dissipating ring as there is no pressure to push it into funny shapes. I imagine some people would rather keep it how it is, like sound in space, some things are preferable even if not realistic. I just think it could look interesting.

[ThatBum]

If there was a liquid oxygen breach, things could burn as they do in an atmosphere. Probably worse. NASA once had a very big problem with that...

[macintux]

NASA once had a very big problem with that...

Nice XKCD reference.

http://xkcd.com/1133/

[ThatBum]

I aim to please.

As for the topic, I don't think I've actually blown up anything in space, all my explosions tend to happen early on in the atmosphere where there are large amounts of thrust and structural strain. I'd also imagine that space explosions would look like some sort of shockwave. Unless hypergolic fuel was involved, that could also cause problems.

[Vanamonde]

What does an explosion in space look like? Back in the 60s, when we were crazy, the US set off a 1.4 megaton nuke at an altitude of 250 miles. Film:

Story: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starfish_Prime As high as that is, though, it's not actually in vacuum. The atmosphere does appear to decelerate the leading edge of the explosion, for one thing. I suspect that while the air is exceedingly thing at that height, the scale of a 1.4 megaton explosion is so large that the deceleration is taking place over many miles, so that the thin air exerts a cumulative effect. Also, the hottest gas in the center does appear to rise, which it would not do unless it was being buoyed by surrounding cooler, denser air.

Okay, so this doesn't have a lot to do with how KSP ships should explode in space, but it's still pretty danged interesting.

[ThatBum]

Well, nuclear explosions aren't chemical explosions. I don't think there will be nuclear explosions in KSP. Unless something went kattywampus with the NERVA engines maybe...but eh.

Not to mention the massive EMP that would be released from such an event.

[comham]

Well, nuclear explosions aren't chemical explosions.

It doesn't really matter what the source is for the explosion energy, since we're only talking about visuals, and all explosions look the same. It's just debris, possibly flaming, moved by expanding gas.

[erkha343]

It doesn't really matter what the source is for the explosion energy, since we're only talking about visuals, and all explosions look the same. It's just debris, possibly flaming, moved by expanding gas.

Yeah, but a nuclear explosion IS different from a chemical one, in a nuclear explosion there's a big ball of energy, made by atoms fusing or doing fission.

You can do a nuclear explosion in a vacuum, but chemical explosions need oxygen to happen

What I'm saying is that the explosions in vacuum should at least look different from the ones inside the atmosphere, even if it's not realistic...

Edited April 27, 2013 by erkha343

[cowo8]

I think explosions should be left the same

[comham]

Yeah, but a nuclear explosion IS different from a chemical one, in a nuclear explosion there's a big ball of energy, made by atoms fusing or doing fission.

You can do a nuclear explosion in a vacuum, but chemical explosions need oxygen to happen

I know, I have a Masters Degree in Chemistry

You can have chemical explosions without oxygen though. Early car airbags used sodium azide (NaN3) to inflate the bag. It's an unstable compound that dissociates from 2 moles of the solid to 2 moles of solid sodium and 3 moles of nitrogen gas, and since a mole of gas has a huge volume, that inflates the airbag from a tiny amount of propellant powder.

My point is it doesn't matter what causes the explosion, it'll look the same. It's an expanding cloud of hot gas and debris. Maybe the initial energy came from a nuclear reaction or a chemical one, but it still ruins your day and looks pretty.

[Awaras]

Here is a description of a russian 'Briz M' rocket booster explosion from 2007.

It contains an animated gif showing the view from the surface. I wanted to post the image itself but it is over 20MB...

http://spaceports.blogspot.com/2007/02/russian-booster-rocket-explodes-in.html

Basically, it's just a slowly expanding spherical gas cloud with bits and pieces in it.

Also, the mysterious 'Norway spiral' that turned out to be a russian rocket spining out of control, venting gas along the way:

Edited April 27, 2013 by Awaras

[Warscribe]

Aw man, you gotta love the conspiracy theories flowering in that youtube comment section.

nice pictures, though.

[Awaras]

Aw man, you gotta love the conspiracy theories flowering in that youtube comment section.

nice pictures, though.

Yeah, UFO's, wormholes, you name it... There are other videos of rocket explosions but I didn't want to post them because of poor quality, but if you are interested (and don't mind conspiracy nuts talking about nibiru and similar stuff) check out these videos:

And yes, they are all malfunctioning rockets, not UFO's.

[Warscribe]

that vandenburg one seems to be working fine.

(also, that comment section is hilarious)

[FluffyBob]

...If I'm not mistaken, it would create a gradually dissipating ring as there is no pressure to push it into funny shapes. ...

No. Whats with the damn explosion rings, there is no ring unless you are referring to the 2d representation of a sphere. Rings and linear effects apparent in explosions are artifacts of interaction with a surface or horizon. The shockwave and ball of hot gasses and debris tend towards spherical (unless we are dealing with a shaped charge), its intersection with a surface is going to be a disk. Horizontal forms associated with big explosions are due to horizon clipping from the view point of the observer. 'Explosion rings' look cool and ever since Alien big space explosions in movies usually have a cool ring or horizontal 'arms', this is silly because there is no horizon to create this effect in open space.

A space explosion is going to be pretty similar to one in the atmosphere; a spherical expanding ball of hot gas and debris. Larger chunks of debris may deform the ball with branches just like they sometimes do in atmosphere. There is not going to be a shockwave because there is nothing to propagate a wave on the scale we are talking about.

[Awaras]

Well, a sphere of semi-transparent gasses would APPEAR like a ring to someone looking at it from outside simply because light passing through the edges of the sphere need to pass through more material than light passing through the center.

[Mercedoniusinter]

The biggest issue I have with explosions in space now is the explosion decelerates like it would in the atmosphere. I think it would be awesome to see the explosion properly spread out and start to form a ring around the parent body.

[Kerbface]

Well, a sphere of semi-transparent gasses would APPEAR like a ring to someone looking at it from outside simply because light passing through the edges of the sphere need to pass through more material than light passing through the center.

Thankyou, this is indeed what I meant. It's technically a sphere but looks like a ring to an observer because from our perspective the outside is thicker than the inside. I know it's not like the Deathstar explosion in the edited versions of Star Wars or anything.