Is it Possible to have an SSTO landed and come back to a 100km orbit from EVE?

[tavert]

Should be, lift can reduce your gravity losses.

[Climberfx]

yeah, the cool thing about Kerbin is that you can turn on LV-Ns pretty much right away: at 1km, their ISP is already ~330 (versus 220 at sea level), so it's on par with the other engines, and therefore they cease to be dead weight just a bit after takeoff.

sadly, on eve we can't take advantage of this. :/

but I'm curious, is there actually an advantage on using wings to generate lift on Eve?

I'm talking stock parts, without FAR.

and with wings you don't need to start with a TWR higher then 1. You can use a lower value...

[foamyesque]

The big advantage to wings on Eve is that they let you dodge the huge TWR you need for a vertical ascent, so you can use more efficient, lighter, but lower-thrust engines to haul yourself out of the atmospheric soup.

[tavert]

And/or, as in Stochasty's case, fewer engines and more fuel, so more total delta-V.

[M5000]

Also also, if you're not opposed to mods, the Firespitter pack has, essentially, canned air. Intake air, that you may be able to use to make jets work on places like Eve and Duna.

I would love to see someone attempt this.

EDIT:

Like this SSTO I designed in 2 minutes and got to orbit in like 3:

It's over in the "Show off your awesome KSP pictures!" thread ATM.

Edited May 2, 2013 by M5000

[foamyesque]

And/or, as in Stochasty's case, fewer engines and more fuel, so more total delta-V.

Precisely. Unfortunately you still smash into the fuel tank mass ratio.

[SpaceK531]

Does the SSTO label still count if we decisively smash empty fuel tanks into the ground, as long as they are still attached when we do so?

[zekes]

Yeah... you do know the only reasons SSTOs work is that they use jet engines which allow efficient transition to space. This doesn't work on eve. sorry.

[Climberfx]

Does the SSTO label still count if we decisively smash empty fuel tanks into the ground, as long as they are still attached when we do so?

Man, it counts only with the ship intact.

Yeah... you do know the only reasons SSTOs work is that they use jet engines which allow efficient transition to space. This doesn't work on eve. sorry.

SSTO means, Single Stage To Orbit. Not Jet Stage to Orbit.

So, SSTO can be applied to Rocket only vehicles, rockets or planes and even alien stuff!

[Francesco]

Does the SSTO label still count if we decisively smash empty fuel tanks into the ground, as long as they are still attached when we do so?

not sure what you mean there, are you talking about purposefully crash landing your ship so that you destroy empty tanks?

[magnemoe]

not sure what you mean there, are you talking about purposefully crash landing your ship so that you destroy empty tanks?

You don't use much fuel to deorbit, very lite if your PE is at 100 km and AP outside Gilly. I wonder if electrical propels would help, no they are not stock but not very overpowered. They would be able to take you to an decent attitude where you could switch to nuclear.

[Stochasty]

Did the Eve mission for real this time. Here are a few screenshots of the transfer, reentry, and landing. Made a video of the launch so that everyone can see what powered flight on Eve in FAR looks like; I'll link it when it finishes uploading.

Burning for Eve transfer. I'll admit, this tug design is not the greatest idea I've ever had.

Undocked on approach to Eve.

Beginning descent.

Reentry!

Jeb's been here before, but never with a plane. He'd be happier if I'd remembered to include a ladder.

And back in orbit.

As for retrying with an SSTO - this ascent used 7km/s delta-v from 4.3km starting altitude. I was a little inefficient with it (made the gravity turn slightly too sharply), but I doubt it's possible to do substantially better than this. 6.5km/s is probably the best that could be hoped for, which I think is probably still outside of the realm of an SSTO.

Edited May 2, 2013 by Stochasty

[Climberfx]

Man, No words! Let me see the video, i'm very excited!

And for you to know, i put the FAR system here, and i'm loving it. The planes, now, are real planes... not paper on sky.

Amazing job.

I can't put in the grid, because is not an SSTO. But this not make less of what you done.

[Stochasty]

And here's the video. Sorry for the lack of sound; the sound got screwed up during the recording (forgot to turn off something I had running in the background which FRAPS picked up as part of the audio track) so I had to mute it.

[AceGamer]

Impossible pretty much.

[SpaceK531]

not sure what you mean there, are you talking about purposefully crash landing your ship so that you destroy empty tanks?

Yes: design the vehicle to draw from the rear tanks and then use a high velocity near the ground or a mountain or something to "scrape" them off the ship.

[Climberfx]

Yes: design the vehicle to draw from the rear tanks and then use a high velocity near the ground or a mountain or something to "scrape" them off the ship.

What is the purpose of that, you still need to get an orbit in ssto. with or without the exploded tank.

I don't see the point!

[Climberfx]

And here's the video. Sorry for the lack of sound; the sound got screwed up during the recording (forgot to turn off something I had running in the background which FRAPS picked up as part of the audio track) so I had to mute it.

Cool!

That show us how hard is to get out of the big purple.

Until one get and do it, for now, i declare the Challenge Impossible!

[M5000]

I think that an ion plane may be the best solution to get out of Eve... You just need a HUGE wing...

[magnemoe]

I think that an ion plane may be the best solution to get out of Eve... You just need a HUGE wing...

Perhaps it can work, the wing will act as structure for both solar pannels and engines. However you have one day, of both reaching 30.000 meter and get your speed up fast enough to reach orbit.

Did an test with electrical propels and nerva, idea look plausible, it has two benefits, the electrical engines will not get you very high but high enough for the nerva to get close to 800m/s, the wings let you gain speed with an twr of less than 1 then speed is high enough and you have used some fuel you go for the gravity turn.

[foamyesque]

I've been poking at an ion plane in FAR; I'm now of the opinion that any stock plane that does it is going to be running more on infiniglide than on thrusters.

[sober667]

i wondering is NOW possible ssto from eve? 1.0 had some chenges so it will be fair to analyze it again

[Zynek]

i wondering is NOW possible ssto from eve? 1.0 had some chenges so it will be fair to analyze it again

I´m trying to build something that would at least make landing on Minmus ... bad luck so far, tried pretty much everything. Although it could probably be done using Ion engines, i dont like them since it takes so long to accelerate.

[sober667]

I´m trying to build something that would at least make landing on Minmus ... bad luck so far, tried pretty much everything. Although it could probably be done using Ion engines, i dont like them since it takes so long to accelerate.

Nerva-rapier hybrid is nice (probably u can done it using turbojets-any-quite-efficjent-engine SSTO or ion for transfer only

[322997am]

Here is the Challenge, i don't think it is possible, until some one do it.

Is it Possible to have an SSTO landed and come back to a 100km orbit from EVE?

On stock+mechjeb only.

No KSPX, no other mod.

To get there you can use infinite fuel+rcs, but from the 100km orbit, to land and then lift of to again a 100km orbit, no refuel, no infinite fuel, and no stages. Just the SSTO Rocket. I think it will need 9000 to 13000 m/s of dV.

Can it be done?

Better if have a kerbin, and better yet if he is in a capsule.

an ssto can be a rocket. Single stage to orbit