Next Steps

[Wijbrandus]

Hello all.

I've had KSP for about a week now, and I've had a blast (in too many cases literally) putting probes and kerbals into orbit around my home planet. This is becoming old hat, and I have no doubts as to my ability to bring my crew back safely.

Now I'm ready for the next step. To me, it seems I should build a functioning space station, and eventually use it as a refueling depot to send my kerbals to the moon and planets. Only I don't understand how to do that. I've looked at a few demo space station parts, but frankly I haven't figured out how to 1) get the heavy bastards out of the gravity well, and 2) I don't have a clue how to assemble them once I do. Is there a thread or something that explains this in some detail?

My other question is that probes just don't "do" anything yet. I'm assuming that will be something to come in the career mode or when we hit release. Is that correct? In other words is the only reason to use a probe because it is lighter and less risky than sending up a manned pod?

Thanks! I'm really enjoying the science-based elements of this game.

[ComradeGoat]

You don't really need to refuel in orbit to go to the Mün and back. Can either do it Apollo style (with an orbiter), or direct ascent from Münar surface to Kerbin with a relatively modest rocket. Duna and return is pretty practical even without orbital refuelling. It gets very useful when you start playing with spaceplanes and very heavy vehicles though, or want to go further afield and explore the Jool system (although I currently have an Eeloo mission that's hopefully going there and back without refuelling).

Space stations are useful for other things, such as returning missions that aren't able to land on Kerbin, or bases to explore other systems. If you don't want to launch them full, you can use the fuel they carry to get them into orbit and then send up tankers to refuel.

If you want to do much with stations though, you'll have to master docking, and that's a very tough learning curve. There are various tutorials about, but basically it\s about a) good RCS placement, understanding orbital mechanics enough to get an encounter c) getting close and zeroing your relative velocity before coming in on RCS.

Good luck!

[Uncle Mort]

As our Comrade said; docking practice and lots of it. You'll build your first space station by accident. Then you scrap that and start one by design. Enjoy!

Edited May 2, 2013 by Uncle Mort
typo

[Vanamonde]

Landing on Mun is MUCH easier than trying to dock pieces to assemble a station.

[Immortalis Vexx]

Docking... Dear God docking. When you are learning how to dock use a VERY light ship, command module and RCS fuel with a docking port attached at either the front or the back. Don't try to do sideways docking on your first few attempts.

Keep your station designs as simple as possible. Trying to dock something heavy with 10FPS is VERY difficult even if you get good at docking.

Vexx

PS: The first time you successfully dock something will feel like the greatest accomplishment of your life. lol

[HGGundamReviews]

If you really want to build a refueling station in Kerbin Orbit, you first need a fuel source. Launch tanks from Kerbin is time consuming and about as least efficient as you can get. So installing the Kethan Mod is a first step. A second step is installing the ISA MAPSAT mod. This will give you 2 classes of active function probes. ISA will give you elevation maps of the bodies it's orbiting. And in the Kethane Mod are detectors which will show you where on a body deposits of the resource are located and gives you the tools to extract it and convert it into fuel.

You will need as first steps a launcher capable of sending unmanned probes to the Mun, fairly simple all in all. Fly those probes (recommend 60k orbits around the Mun) you will need to fly the probe (I recommend putting both the ISA Map dish and Kethan Detector (small) on the same probe to generate both maps at the same time) you can run it at X50 times acceleration, I recommend starting it before you go to bed and let it run while your asleep, because the Kethane detector takes a REALLY long time even at X50 speed to generate a full map.

Once you have those maps, you can build and launch your parts for a station. If your only wanting it for refueling you can go very minimalist on it. Here is a pic of my current orbiting station.

Its just a orbiting fuel dump. Mostly because there really aren't any science modules in the game yet. I have the same station in orbit around the Mun with the addition of a tank to hold raw Kethane and a resource converter to make fuel. Which I ferry back to the station in orbit around Kerbin.

This does require lots of docking and orbital construction. But in the long run it will help teach you how to make these maneuvers.

If you're really having trouble doing this stuff. You can install the MechJeb autopilot mod. It has a lot of features which will assist you in doing most of this stuff. Though I do recommend learning as much as you can. Mechjeb can often be twitchy and can make mistakes.

[Chocki]

I have had good luck learning from mechjeb2's mistakes. First, you need to understand the method of what should be happening. Tutorials will beat it into you. Rendezvous (closer the better), zero relative volcity, align ports (which ever direction is easiest for you), then rcs in slowly.

Then, as MJ2 goes through the routine, you can see what it is doing, and what it is trying to achive. You will then see it make a mistake, and you will scream "all you had to do was rcs closer! But nooooo, main engines on full power away was your choice."

Then you will only use it to plot a rendezvous maneuver node.

Don't start with a large ship, they turn to slow for MJ to fly reliably. Start small, and work up. Be aware that MJ uses rcs like the fuel is unlimited.

[Immortalis Vexx]

Mecjeb is fail. Do it on your own the first time. Once you understand the process then you can use shortcuts to make it easier.

Vexx

[Wijbrandus]

HGGundam,

I will look for those mods. How did you achieve orbit with those huge tanks?

I have been working on getting a probe to the Mun, but I'm having trouble with getting enough fuel into space to establish orbit when I arrive. Still experimenting. Perhaps something in those mods will make it a little easier.

Thanks! I'll post back on this thread with my results.

[HGGundamReviews]

HGGundam,

I will look for those mods. How did you achieve orbit with those huge tanks?

I have been working on getting a probe to the Mun, but I'm having trouble with getting enough fuel into space to establish orbit when I arrive. Still experimenting. Perhaps something in those mods will make it a little easier.

Thanks! I'll post back on this thread with my results.

When you're building your ships and probes you want to take into account how much mass you're trying to lift. Multiple stages, using the proper engines help as well. I recommend watching some youtube videos, Scott Manley has tons of tutorials which I can recommend, here are 10 different tutorials he has done in a single playlist.

Also don't be afraid to use multiple stages that radiate out from the core. the radial decouplers work really well to hold not only Solid Rocket Booster but liquid fuel tanks to put engines on.

Also Fuel lines. when you have radial liquid fuel tanks on a ship run a fuel line from them into your central stage tank so that it remains full for as long as possible.

A few more tips, don't start your gravity turn (tiling your ship towards the 90 degree mark) until you reach 10k in altitude. Don't push your ship to hard, While you're in the lowest part of the atmosphere keep your throttle as low as you can while still gaining altitude and speed. If you're pushing 200m/s before you reach 10-11k altitude you're wasting fuel as the atmosphere is bleeding off your extra energy. Check the map a lot, once you pass 13k check the map to see where your AP is. Once it gets to 70-75k cut your engines and coast to that point, then point directly at 90 on the horizon line and burn till you get your PE appearing and it's close to the same number as the AP.

As for the tanks on my space station, they were empty at launch. There is a mod which gives you copies of all the stock tanks but totally empty. These are really good to use with the Kethane mod so you have empty tanks on your stations to fill with fuel. Being they were empty it takes a generally smaller launcher to get into orbit than you need to launch one full of fuel.

[Wijbrandus]

Ok, I downloaded ISA and Kethane last night. I build a planetary mapping probe with the intent to send it to the Mun to begin the survey. Apparently I have even less of a clue how to intercept a planet. I finally decided to use MechJeb just to get going, and I still can't hit the planet. My first attempt crashed on the Mun, and my second attempt ended up in deep space somewhere. Very frustrating, as I ran out of time to try another one. I will post in the MechJeb threads in a bit about my errors using this mod.

My intent is to do like you have. Set up a Kethane mining facility on the Mun, a refining facility in the Mun orbit, and use the proceeds to supply a refueling station in high Kerbin orbit. Then I might be able to build some sort of construct in space that I can send off to other planets (this is far off in my plans at my current rate of fail, err, success).

[HGGundamReviews]

When burning for the Mun if you do it manually you need to do these steps in this order.

#1 Select Mun as Target from the map.

#2 Make sure you're in the same plane with the Mun, Using MJ 1.9.8 select Rendezvous Guidance and Align Planes With Target, Using Mj 2.0.7 It will do all that and the following for you.

#3 align your ship Prograde in your orbit around Kerbin and watch the horizon, once you see the Mun begin to rise burn and watch your map, the Orbit will begin stretching out ahead of the mun. Once your Orbits cross you should see a Intercept which will be a blue and orange circle with a sphere in the middle indicating where the Mun will be. If there is no Orange PE indicator burn very slowly again to see if one appears, if the Intercept marker disappears turn retrograde and get it back and again burn until the PE shows up, anything above 20k should be safe.

From here on you will have to give Mj new instructions to perform these maneuvers.

#4 Once you get to the Mun, your Orbit will show as a line that curves around it and goes by it, once you reach the PE Mark turn Retrograde and Burn till you get a captured orbit. (In MJ 2.0.7 In the maneuver Planner this is the Circularize command, set it for At Next Periapsis)

#5 Once captured you can perform burns at the AP and PE markers to set your orbit at the altitude you want.

I understand it can be frustrating, when I first got the demo for the game I spent I know a good week just trying to figure out how to get a good stable orbit and moving on from there.