Military Weapons in KSP

[_Aramchek_]

War is a method of domination, one party's way of imposing its will upon another's by means of force. Creativity and refinement of engineering practices are not dependent upon warfare to progress.

Actually, competition is a primary evolutionary force, and many if not most of the wonderful technological advancements we enjoy are directly descended from war time necessities or inventions.

Adapt or die, and as a creature with no natural predators left, in general, we compete amongst ourselves, creativity and refinement are very much a part of that, whether people like to accept that fact or not.

If there was no possibility of war, no competition, the likelihood we would have sent people to space when and how we did initially is quite low.

People don't like to think of it that way, but competition and death have been primary evolutionary spurs for all of the history that we know of.

That's why I associate weapons with real weapons/violence.

I say this as respectfully as can be done, but, that IS an odd association, and one that doesn't hold up much to scrutiny, violence in real life is nothing at all like violence in a game, nor are the two related.

Most people of my age around me are very rejective when it comes to weapons, military and such stuff.

I stop arguing now, that will escalate for sure. I think, I made clear what I am about.

Who's arguing? I also think it's odd that people seem to have lost the ability to disagree without thinking it to be an argument.

I'll say this though, pacifism isn't the greatest idea, and this aversion to violence makes people easy targets for those that lack it, either through political manipulation or more direct enactments of physical violence.

Avoiding it completely isn't the answer, responsibly using, or in most situations, choosing not to use it, is a more realistic and useful stance. In appropriate situations (self defense, defense of loved ones or the weak) it can be beneficial and not just on a personal and morally "wrong" level.

Edited July 12, 2013 by _Aramchek_

[Kialar]

I say this as respectfully as can be done, but, that IS an odd association, and one that doesn't hold up much to scrutiny, violence in real life is nothing at all like violence in a game, nor are the two related.

OK. If you poke me.

For sure you are right that real violence is not related to violence in a game.

Thar has nothing to do with an association.

KSP has nothing to do with real space travel, but I associate it with space travel. That's the reason I like the game so much.

Who's arguing? I also think it's odd that people seem to have lost the ability to disagree without thinking it to be an argument.

I'll say this though, pacifism isn't the greatest idea, and this aversion to violence makes people easy targets for those that lack it, either through political manipulation or more direct enactments of physical violence.

Avoiding it completely isn't the answer, responsibly using, or in most situations, choosing not to use it, is a more realistic and useful stance. In appropriate situations (self defense, defense of loved ones or the weak) it can be beneficial and not just on a personal and morally "wrong" level.

Where do you get the idea from, that I am a pacificst or relate my expressions as pacifistic? Where do you get the idea from, that I am avoiding violence at all costs? Where did you get the idea from, that I do put morals in?

What I tried to communicate are three things:

1) I have a problem with violence and all related things, because it is destructive. Do not mistake that for "I am lean back and getting beaten up for the sake of being nonviolent". Be sure, that self-defense, nutrition, defense of the weak can be reasons for violence. But even if they are reasonable, I don't have to like it. An aversion to violence and pacifism are not quite the same. That is like "You don't like beer, so you are abstinent to all alcoholics".

2) I can not get Kerbals and violence together. That's why I wouldn't like it to see weapons in the game.

3) A homo sapiens is a omnivorous (I used carnivorous above, don't nail me on that ^^), hunting, basically violent life form. I never denied, that the species made most of it's progress due to weapons or violence. That is totally detached from morals. I never said something about "wrong" and "right". I tried to transport, that: I don't like violence, I don't like getting hurt, I don't like to hurt others. But I don't like winter, too. I have to deal with it and some things are as they are.

[Wiracho]

because, we are humans... thats why

[Guest]

Actually, competition is a primary evolutionary force, and many if not most of the wonderful technological advancements we enjoy are directly descended from war time necessities or inventions.

Adapt or die, and as a creature with no natural predators left, in general, we compete amongst ourselves, creativity and refinement are very much a part of that, whether people like to accept that fact or not.

If there was no possibility of war, no competition, the likelihood we would have sent people to space when and how we did initially is quite low.

People don't like to think of it that way, but competition and death have been primary evolutionary spurs for all of the history that we know of.

I'll accept that as a justification of why things are the way they are, not an explanation of why they have to be so. We'll simply have to agree to disagree on the matter, because it's pretty clear neither of us are going to change our views. That's fine.

Fundamentally, KSP is about curiosity, creativity, and exploration. In my mind you don't need bombs to satisfy those things. If people want to make military-themed mods, that's their business. Just as long as it's never a mandatory part of this game.

[Sid]

I absolutely love weapons in the real world - I'm a gunsmith, knifemaker and hunter - but they honestly don't do anything for me in the virtual world.

Especially in KSP, where I spend most of my time ensuring things DON'T explode

I don't reckon KSP is a good base for a space combat sim anyway - it would be like trying to train a horse to be a dog. There's no AI or multiplayer to provide an opponent for one thing. I like the building and exploring aspects - I hope the developers and modders keep creating new things to find and new places to go.

[_Aramchek_]

OK. If you poke me.

1) I have a problem with violence and all related things, because it is destructive. Do not mistake that for "I am lean back and getting beaten up for the sake of being nonviolent". Be sure, that self-defense, nutrition, defense of the weak can be reasons for violence. But even if they are reasonable, I don't have to like it. An aversion to violence and pacifism are not quite the same.

2) I can not get Kerbals and violence together. That's why I wouldn't like it to see weapons in the game.

3) A homo sapiens is a omnivorous (I used carnivorous above, don't nail me on that ^^), hunting, basically violent life form. I never denied, that the species made most of it's progress due to weapons or violence. That is totally detached from morals. I never said something about "wrong" and "right". I tried to transport, that: I don't like violence, I don't like getting hurt, I don't like to hurt others. But I don't like winter, too. I have to deal with it and some things are as they are.

1.) I was not speaking of you directly, even though it was in response to you.

"That is like "You don't like beer, so you are abstinent to all alcoholics"."

That's a straw man argument.

2.) Which is perfectly ok, the devs have already stated weapons will never be part of the stock game, however, you did respond directly to my statement that I found it odd people liken in game violence to real world violence and proceeded from a stance that made it seem like you did indeed feel that way.

3) See number one.

I'll accept that as a justification of why things are the way they are, not an explanation of why they have to be so. We'll simply have to agree to disagree on the matter, because it's pretty clear neither of us are going to change our views. That's fine.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind if things were different, I'm just not sure realistically that any other impetus would work as well or that we're capable of being co-operative on a scale that would enable that to change.

I'm not saying it "has to be that way" or should, but so far it would seem to be the only thing that "works".

I'd like to state I'm not trying to change your view. lol

Fundamentally, KSP is about curiosity, creativity, and exploration. In my mind you don't need bombs to satisfy those things. If people want to make military-themed mods, that's their business. Just as long as it's never a mandatory part of this game.

[Kialar]

"That is like "You don't like beer, so you are abstinent to all alcoholics"."

That's a straw man argument.

Basically yes.

In fact, it was intended to be a provocation.

You see, I am not pacifistic at all.

Overall: Happy launching and may you always be on the cooler side of the rocket exhaust.

[Atomictank]

Oh for God's sake! You run a bloody space program- it should be easy enough for you threaten someone with crashing you space station through their mum's living room! In am seriousness you don't need it you have SRB's.

[Robbii6]

To be honest im with 'no weapons' here. Is there really any point in having them? the only thing you are going to use them on is the space centre or you own creations which to be perfectly honest what is the point in that? However thats just my opinion. I guess it could be kind of cool for the jets but there is no point, and plus you could just strap on some fuel tanks and some seprotrons.

[ScramblesTD]

The pioneering spirit behind spaceflight is innovation and invention. Nothing gets technology moving and drives people to invent and innovate like a good ol' fashioned war.

Besides, it's fun trying to use SRBs and sepratron powered missiles to "dispose" of failed space plane designs. Or using my Mun station to launch an orbital strike on KSC (managed to get with in 500 meters of my target on that one. not bad for doing nearly 3k/s entering the atmosphere.)

[Jodo42]

I kind of view KSP like a set of Lego. You follow the instructions, put everything together meticulously, and then, when it's done, get to play with it. But after a while, it gets boring. And you get ideas for what you could build with the bricks from the set, other than the original model. So you decide to destroy it. Either you can take it apart slowly and carefully, or you can throw it on the floor and watch it explode into a hundred bits. The latter is always more fun.

I do the same thing with KSP, except I use weapons as my method of "throwing" my work on the ground. It's fun to design the ships, fun to fly them, and fun to use them. And it gets rid of the old and makes way for the new. Of course in KSP destroying the original isn't needed to get more parts. But it's still fun.

[Comrade Jenkens]

The main reason I play KSP is for the engineering challenge. I enjoy the designing whether its a boat, rover, jet fighter or an Apollo replica. Some of the things I enjoy building are military and watching the new building techniques that evolve over time is fascinating.

I don't mind if other players make weapons or not as long as they just enjoy the game.

As there is no multiplayer there is no risk of one player wrecking anothers stuff.

[cesarcurado]

Because making something to destroy your ship is better than leaving it there or clicking End Flight.

I hardly do weapons in KSP but when I do they are mostly missiles to practice rocket designs.

[zekes]

One hit can sever a capital ship in two.

[Jodo42]

-awesome massive missile frigate-

One hit can sever a capital ship in two.

I assume when you say "capital ship" you mean Macey-Dean style?

If so that's awesome. If not that's still awesome. Those are MASSIVE missiles. I've never needed anything that big, they must pack a damn powerful punch.

[camulus777]

Because no one has posted in this thread for over a year I want to say that I hope that KSP stays peaceful focusing on the engineering. If in the future the weapons mods get better then I may add one but until then I will be making all my weapons stock.

[Vanamonde]

I want to say that I hope that KSP stays peaceful focusing on the engineering.

They intend to. Squad has said that stock KSP will not be militarized. And since that's settled, let's let this tired old thread go on to its heavenly reward, eh?