Orion aka "Ol' Boom-boom"

[Leonov]

Might as well learn how to use these new trajectories correctly.

Can someone explain the Non-Hohmann transfer trajectories?

Do i just give the planet i want to go to a lead and burn till i get an intercept?

[Canopus]

Might as well learn how to use these new trajectories correctly.

Can someone explain the Non-Hohmann transfer trajectories?

Do i just give the planet i want to go to a lead and burn till i get an intercept?

You might have to wait for nyrath to get the best answer:)

[czokletmuss]

Might as well learn how to use these new trajectories correctly.

Can someone explain the Non-Hohmann transfer trajectories?

Do i just give the planet i want to go to a lead and burn till i get an intercept?

With MechJeb (though you don't need it, it's just easier)

1. Reach orbit

2. Select target (planet)

3. Set SMART A.S.S. to TRG+ (point the rocket to target)

4. Accelerate

5. ???

6. profit!

That's all you need though you may save a lot of delta-V by using manouvre nodes, so you don't accelerate only in prograde but also change your trajectory by adding some m/s in normal/antinormal and so on. That cover is in KSP - if you want some SCIENCE, read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brachistochrone_curve

Edited May 27, 2013 by czokletmuss

[OrbitusII]

That boat part mod uses more than one node for attachement, it should be no different here. Then agian, i am no modder.

It wants to use multiple nodes, but the current KSP node system doesn't allow for more than one attachment to a part except through struts. Sorry.

It's certainly possible to write a plugin that could enable multiple attachment points to a single part, however...

[nyrath]

Let me present to you the next mission with my updated Orion Ship. Target: Jool and its moons.

The new updated version of my Ship including 2 capsules and 2 landers with spare fuel

Who needs Hohmann transfer orbits when you can go on Brachistochrone trajectories

It's Beautiful!

Yes, Torchships always use Brachistochrone trajectories. Accelerate, coast to halfway, flip over, decelerate.

I'm undergoing one step forwards, two steps back. I manged to get multiple bomb magazines working, barely. Simplistically the engine tries to draw from all the magazines equally, in an attempt to keep the rocket balanced. Unfortunately it pays you no mind if you have several types of magazines. It just draws from all the magazines so each detonation is an adventure. I'm still trying to figure out how to allow the user to switch from one bomb type to another.

It seems that the Kerbal physics engine is sensitive to density. The huge magazine array everybody is currently using does not give much problem. But the individual magazine are much smaller but of large mass. What happens is that when the rocket is on the launch pad, the magazines jitter like Mexican Jumping Beans. If you have a two magazine stack, they hit each other and explode, with the rocket following a second later. To prevent this you have to tie them down with lots of struts.

And the 80 kN and 400 kN magazines are too hot to handle. No matter how many struts I use, upon the first detonation the cockpit shoots skyward like an atomic powered champagne cork. The 400 kN charge will send the cockpit up to 5,000 m, the 80 kN will only send it to about half that.

I'm going to have to make a customized collision mesh for the magazine frame. The generated one makes it too hard to attach struts.

[Kenobi McCormick]

Might as well learn how to use these new trajectories correctly.

Can someone explain the Non-Hohmann transfer trajectories?

Do i just give the planet i want to go to a lead and burn till i get an intercept?

Yeah, pretty much. These things don't really care about Hohmann transfers. In my testing screwing around I managed to get an apoapse of 1 trillion meters in about 45 seconds flat. Orbital period of nearly 40 years. I then turned around, nulled that orbit, and put it into a 3.2mx450k solar orbit, where it will stay forever more.

It's Beautiful!

Yes, Torchships always use Brachistochrone trajectories. Accelerate, coast to halfway, flip over, decelerate.

I'm undergoing one step forwards, two steps back. I manged to get multiple bomb magazines working, barely. Simplistically the engine tries to draw from all the magazines equally, in an attempt to keep the rocket balanced. Unfortunately it pays you no mind if you have several types of magazines. It just draws from all the magazines so each detonation is an adventure. I'm still trying to figure out how to allow the user to switch from one bomb type to another.

It seems that the Kerbal physics engine is sensitive to density. The huge magazine array everybody is currently using does not give much problem. But the individual magazine are much smaller but of large mass. What happens is that when the rocket is on the launch pad, the magazines jitter like Mexican Jumping Beans. If you have a two magazine stack, they hit each other and explode, with the rocket following a second later. To prevent this you have to tie them down with lots of struts.

And the 80 kN and 400 kN magazines are too hot to handle. No matter how many struts I use, upon the first detonation the cockpit shoots skyward like an atomic powered champagne cork. The 400 kN charge will send the cockpit up to 5,000 m, the 80 kN will only send it to about half that.

I'm going to have to make a customized collision mesh for the magazine frame. The generated one makes it too hard to attach struts.

Ahahaha, atomic powered champagne cork. I rofl'd.

Any way you could let us turn magazines on and off? Perhaps that would solve it. The pilot would turn off the magazines they don't want to use and turn on the ones they do, and the engine can only draw from magazines that are 'on'.

[nyrath]

Ahahaha, atomic powered champagne cork. I rofl'd.

Any way you could let us turn magazines on and off? Perhaps that would solve it. The pilot would turn off the magazines they don't want to use and turn on the ones they do, and the engine can only draw from magazines that are 'on'.

Actually, I had more in mind something like right-clicking on the Engine, not the magazines. Have a pop up appear showing all the different types of nukes available, and letting the user check-box the ones they wanted to use. If I can figure out how to do this.

One has to use lots of struts to keep the magazines from jiggling around. Unfortunately 16 struts are not enough to keep the cockpit from doing a cork pop.

I'm going to have to hand-edit the engine's collision mesh. As you can see the struts are attached to thin air, not the framework.

I'm toying with the idea of making the attachment points on the engine act like Quantum Struts. Q Struts internally create an invisible ConfigurableJoint between the two connected parts, with the joint xyzMotion and joint angularXYZMotion hard set to ConfigurableJointMotion.Locked. In other words it is set to a joint that is rusted solid.

Trouble is, I fear what will happen is that the part directly attached to the engine will stay attached, but the next part above will do a cork pop.

I might be forced to create drastically weaker bombs. Or fudge the jolt factor.

Right now the code gently and magically changes the vessel's WorldVelocity (to change the ship's vector), and savagely & brutally does an rigidbody.AddRelativeForce to kick all the vessel parts in the pants. I could reduce the AddRelativeForce shock by a factor, but for the 400,000 kN bombs I'd probably have to reduce it by a factor of 100 or so.

The above system is straight from NovaSilisko's code for his prototype Orion.

GREAT HOPPING FARK!!!

I tried changing it from rigidbody.AddRelativeForce using ForceMode.Force to using ForceMode.Impulse

From the launch pad, one nuke went off. The cockpit made the jump to Light Speed. It went through the atmosphere so fast it started to develop a plasma sheath, like atmospheric re-entry in reverse. According to the map the AP was 92,000 meters!

Well, that certainly was not the solution to the problem...

Edited May 28, 2013 by nyrath

[Canopus]

All those individual parts could also get hard to handle for some computers.

[nyrath]

All those individual parts could also get hard to handle for some computers.

Yes, which is why I am retaining the old engine with no magazine frame, and the old magazine array.

Over and above the fact that if I made all of your existing designs break you'd be chasing me with torches and pitchforks. I am very carefully testing my new plugin with the old parts to make sure everything still works.

[Leonov]

You smell that guys?, I smell Progress!

[Kenobi McCormick]

Actually, I had more in mind something like right-clicking on the Engine, not the magazines. Have a pop up appear showing all the different types of nukes available, and letting the user check-box the ones they wanted to use. If I can figure out how to do this.

I figure it'd be easier to do by just turning the magazines on-and-off and having the engine only draw from magazines turned on. Also allows the pilot to change it with action groups instead of sometimes fiddly context menus. Tap "1" for low power, tap "2" for "Gotta move a space station to Minmus" power and tap "3" for "Jeb mode". Bonus points: If we want "Russian Roulette" mode we can just hit all the hotkeys and rofl as it randomly switches from tiny to jeb to mid to jeb to tiny!

GREAT HOPPING FARK!!!

I tried changing it from rigidbody.AddRelativeForce using ForceMode.Force to using ForceMode.Impulse

From the launch pad, one nuke went off. The cockpit made the jump to Light Speed. It went through the atmosphere so fast it started to develop a plasma sheath, like atmospheric re-entry in reverse. According to the map the AP was 92,000 meters!

Well, that certainly was not the solution to the problem...

...huh. Point one at 45 degrees and see if itt'l launch the cockpit on an escape trajectory?

Edited May 28, 2013 by Kenobi McCormick

[czokletmuss]

From the launch pad, one nuke went off. The cockpit made the jump to Light Speed. It went through the atmosphere so fast it started to develop a plasma sheath, like atmospheric re-entry in reverse. According to the map the AP was 92,000 meters!

You don't need nukes to achieve this

I'm glad you are making progress - keep up with the good work!

[nyrath]

You don't need nukes to achieve this

Good one!

But yours has a rocket motor on it.

meanwhile: arrgh. I spent all this time hand making a collision mesh for the engine, with concavities in it to accommodate the magazine stacks. Come to find out that collision meshes must be totally concave. arrgh.

Well, at least I can try moving the edges inwards so the struts can snap onto the outer edge of the frame.

Edited May 28, 2013 by nyrath

[Fyrem]

I appriacate the work you are putting in for the magazines, AND that you are going to continue support for the "fixed/original" style as well.

(however, I guess the plug in could still let you 'select' the kiloton size even with the original version).

anyway, jool transfer time, (not that I really need to care about transfer windows anymore)

[khyron42]

I decided to have some fun using the Orion to build a nuclear deterrent.

Fortress Orion currently sits in a 1329 x 1293 km orbit. It has 8 NTR surface-to-ground missiles, each with 5 independently steerable MIRVs. The engine itself counts as a sixth warhead. The idea is to use the NTR for orbital plane changes and deorbit, then try to use the RCS on the warheads for precision targeting.

Some concern was given to the fact that it's a big fat target in the sky, but it was quickly realized that the drive system itself is DESIGNED to withstand nukes, and can fire them off at will as a self-defense mechanism. If someone tries to attack the station from the ground you just pulse the drive once the incoming nuke (or boarding party, whichever) gets close enough for EMP to scramble its circuitry. For attempts at a kinetic kill you turn the shield towards the projectile, and then pulse at the last minute... or just let it hit the shield; it's unlikely to do anything the shock absorber can't handle.

The missiles are attached to docking ports, so they can be replenished in orbit. There's also three docking ports around the cupola command module, for crew changes and resupply.

[I got BCed]

could this be adjusted to use the main throttle controls and activate/deactivate KSPfieldsevents? I don't want to have to hold down a key to work the engine.

Otherwise a fantastic mod, keep up the good work.

[Canopus]

could this be adjusted to use the main throttle controls and activate/deactivate KSPfieldsevents? I don't want to have to hold down a key to work the engine.

Otherwise a fantastic mod, keep up the good work.

He is working on a solution. But let me tell you you won't hold throttle for long. This thing has an insane acceleration

[I got BCed]

I noticed, escape orbit in seconds

[nyrath]

I decided to have some fun using the Orion to build a nuclear deterrent.

Fortress Orion currently sits in a 1329 x 1293 km orbit. It has 8 NTR surface-to-ground missiles, each with 5 independently steerable MIRVs. The engine itself counts as a sixth warhead. The idea is to use the NTR for orbital plane changes and deorbit, then try to use the RCS on the warheads for precision targeting.

Lordy, that's awe inspiring! And a little terrifying as well.

Some concern was given to the fact that it's a big fat target in the sky, but it was quickly realized that the drive system itself is DESIGNED to withstand nukes, and can fire them off at will as a self-defense mechanism. If someone tries to attack the station from the ground you just pulse the drive once the incoming nuke (or boarding party, whichever) gets close enough for EMP to scramble its circuitry. For attempts at a kinetic kill you turn the shield towards the projectile, and then pulse at the last minute... or just let it hit the shield; it's unlikely to do anything the shock absorber can't handle.

That is true in reality.

In KSP, when the Orion detonates a standard 3500 kN nuke, everything within 1700 meters of the detonation will be hit by 1750 kN of impact, impact force falls off with distance from ground zero.

And everything within 220 metes of the detonation will blow up. That is, everything that is not attached to the vessel the Orion is a part of.

Which is pretty good missile defense. And a rather drastic way of cleaning debris in orbit. And a reason to have auxiliary engines for docking, or you will annihilate whatever you were trying to dock to.

Edited May 29, 2013 by nyrath

[I got BCed]

god, there is no finesse in this "engine", 1 nuke is knocking my orbit around like the ship's made of paper. ammo selector for different yield devices would be a nice feature down the line

[Mekan1k]

I got BCed, this is an engine that uses NUCLEAR BOMBS for propulsion. Did you think there could be finesse with this thing?

[I got BCed]

admittedly, no, but when one detonation is moving your praperisis by 1000000 m there's a line that's crossed

[Canopus]

admittedly, no, but when one detonation is moving your praperisis by 1000000 m there's a line that's crossed

Sounds like you have a very small payload.

[KinkyFerrets]

admittedly, no, but when one detonation is moving your praperisis by 1000000 m there's a line that's crossed

I dont know why, part of it I'm sure is the that one "detonation" is in reference to a multi kiloton nuclear explosion, part of it is probably the way you ended the statement, but I just laughed my ass off for about 2 minutes.

Edit: I want to say the first thing I did with this mod was a build a megalithic colony ship bound for laythe, but TBH, I just direct ascented the mun. So yeah.

Edit to the Edit: Like, in a straight line at the mun ascent.

Edited May 29, 2013 by KinkyFerrets

[nyrath]

Yes, different sized nukes are not the problem. Figuring out a user interface to allow section is a problem. How does one code those little pop-up windows that appear when you right-click on a part?