Orion aka "Ol' Boom-boom"

[TheCardinal]

The pusher plate is the shield.

You misunderstood me. I meant at the front of the craft. The velocity of the craft will be high enough that any object striking the front will cause quite some damage. Consider the effect a strike at a magazine would have.

[Splode]

You misunderstood me. I meant at the front of the craft. The velocity of the craft will be high enough that any object striking the front will cause quite some damage. Consider the effect a strike at a magazine would have.

None at all, nuclear bombs don't explode if you hit them with a hammer. protection from space dust is not required in ksp, so it doesn't need a whipple shield

[Canopus]

You misunderstood me. I meant at the front of the craft. The velocity of the craft will be high enough that any object striking the front will cause quite some damage. Consider the effect a strike at a magazine would have.

Those old Orion designs doesn't had a shield. I think you have to go much faster until incoming Debris gets that dangerous that you need one.

[nyrath]

How would one go about re-filling spent magazines?

I'm still trying to figure that out. Unfortunately they cannot be filled with Kethane. My current thinking is that the only source of new bombs is fresh magazines created in the VAB. The empty ship will have to rendezvous with a tanker fresh from the VAB and transfer bombs over a fuel pipe or something.

I'm also going to implement a system where empty magazines can be jettisoned. Then you can add full magazines by a Kerbal doing an EVA.

That might not be worth doing, empty magazines only mass 0.18 tons which is insignificant to an Orion drive. Especially if you can re-fill them from a tanker.

Thoughts on this, anyone?

You misunderstood me. I meant at the front of the craft. The velocity of the craft will be high enough that any object striking the front will cause quite some damage. Consider the effect a strike at a magazine would have.

Such shields are typically not needed unless the vessel travels at significant fractions of the speed of light. Which this Orion cannot do.

In real life, an interplanetary Orion will use the same system as other spacecraft, Whipple shields or keep a radar watch so you can dodge if necessary.

[Tommygun]

Can you attach the magazines to the ship with docking ports?

Then just use one of those robot arm mods to change magazines.

[RoboRay]

Having a stack of magazines mounted to a docking port sounds like a viable refueling method... just send up replacement stacks and dock them with a little robotic tug or something.

[TheCardinal]

None at all, nuclear bombs don't explode if you hit them with a hammer. protection from space dust is not required in ksp, so it doesn't need a whipple shield

I have to disagree with you about the "none at all". I know an atomic bomb won't explode when struck with an object at a high speed. I was thinking about the kinetic damage to the structure of a (or more) magazines. A small rock will puncture the magazine and bend the metal out of shape, thereby (possibly) making the further release of bombs impossible. I know the chances of being hit by a large enough rock are slim, but at several km/s the effect is quite considerable. Even though the craft has sixty magazines, i don't think it would be something ignored especially since there's no shortage of power.

[Kenobi McCormick]

Specifically, if your Orion-drive spacecraft is sitting on the launch pad, you fire off a nuke, and the nuke is a dud, there is no problem. You are still sitting quietly on the pad. So you can try again, or stop the mission until you figure out what went wrong with the first bomb.

If your Orion-drive spacecraft has just detonated its first nuke, your ship is a few hundred feet above the ground, and the second nuke is a dud, you have a problem. You better hope you can fire off a third nuke real quick or you are going to create a large crater where your spacecraft augers in.

The bigger issue, I think, is if we have a Castle Bravo re-enactment. Castle Bravo, for those not in the know, was only supposed to just slip into the megaton class of warheads. Instead, due to a miscalculation regarding the different Lithium isotopes used in the bomb, they ended up with the second largest detonation America ever produced.

If something like that happens with an Orion spacecraft, whether on the pad or in flight, we have a HUGE problem on our hands. A normal LES system can cover for the second nuke off the pad being a dud but there isn't a damn thing the LES system can do if you have another Castle Bravo incident.

Snide comments, yes, but, not completely off-base, either. There are some very vocal people that are completely irrational about anything with "atomic" or "nuclear" in its name.

I so dearly wish politicians would just tell those groups to go pound salt. Legitimate concern is welcome but if you can't back up your claim with anything more than "ERMAGERD CHERNOBYL" you don't have any business complaining at all.

Anyway I have the pop up menu populating properly, but it is not behaving when it comes to deactivating fuel magazines. Yet.

The idea is that each menu entry shows whether that magazine type is feeding the engine or not (the status), along with a button to change the status.

Pretty neat. Not sure how you'll get that working with action groups though.

[nyrath]

The bigger issue, I think, is if we have a Castle Bravo re-enactment. Castle Bravo, for those not in the know, was only supposed to just slip into the megaton class of warheads. Instead, due to a miscalculation regarding the different Lithium isotopes used in the bomb, they ended up with the second largest detonation America ever produced.

If something like that happens with an Orion spacecraft, whether on the pad or in flight, we have a HUGE problem on our hands. A normal LES system can cover for the second nuke off the pad being a dud but there isn't a damn thing the LES system can do if you have another Castle Bravo incident.

Well, yes, obviously. But presumably the propulsive charges were developed and tested at Kerkini Atoll, not just thrown together and given their very first test on the launch pad. Unless Jeb was the lead researcher. By the time this becomes a propulsion system the charges will be a well tested and debugged design.

Pretty neat. Not sure how you'll get that working with action groups though.

I'm not sure either. The lack of adequate documentation for the KSP API is the main reason this is taking so long.

After some Googling, it appears I can make it work with action groups by using the [KSPAction] keyword

I have to disagree with you about the "none at all". I know an atomic bomb won't explode when struck with an object at a high speed. I was thinking about the kinetic damage to the structure of a (or more) magazines. A small rock will puncture the magazine and bend the metal out of shape, thereby (possibly) making the further release of bombs impossible. I know the chances of being hit by a large enough rock are slim, but at several km/s the effect is quite considerable. Even though the craft has sixty magazines, i don't think it would be something ignored especially since there's no shortage of power.

Such damage would threaten all the spacecraft in the Kerbal system, not just the Orion. The velocity difference between an Orion vessel and an ion-drive vessel will be a tiny fraction of the velocity of the meteor. In other words, all the KSP spacecraft would need such a shield.

The more efficient technique is to just have a radar sweep, and dodge any incoming meteors.

Details here

http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/lifesupport.php#id--Air

Edited May 31, 2013 by nyrath

[s20dan]

This mod is a lot of fun and here's my attempt at a sleek Orion class desgn:

160-200 bombs to orbit depending on how much fuel you load it up with. It will carry approx 40-50,000 combined liquidfuel+Oxidiser.

It was originally designed with two 'bomb stacks' so it could return from Jool, but obviously thats dead weight for now.

The ship at the end doubles as a lander and can land pretty much everywhere except for Tylo and Eve... it wouldn't be able to regain it's orbit there.

The large amount of fuel carried by the main vessel is purely to supply the lander for multiple excursions.

The lander should also be able to return all on board back to Kerbin should the need arise.

Here's a Pastebin link to the craft if anyone is interested : http://pastebin.com/LH4uBEWi

It will need the LLL (LackLuster Labs) Pack as well as the B9 Aerospace Pack, but you should be using those already hehe (For the amazing parts)

Also Mechjeb, and perhaps KSPX.... it uses some smaller 2m RCS tanks that may or may not be from the KSPX mod.

It also uses the modular fuel tanks mod, to fill the Jumbo fuel tanks with customised loadouts of fuel and monopropellant.

Pretty neat. Not sure how you'll get that working with action groups though.

You could have an action group button for 'next warhead type' or something, to cycle through each type of warhead.

Edited May 31, 2013 by s20dan
Spoilers still not working?

[nyrath]

This mod is a lot of fun and here's my attempt at a sleek Orion class desgn:

160-200 bombs to orbit depending on how much fuel you load it up with. It will carry approx 40-50,000 combined liquidfuel+Oxidiser.

It was originally designed with two 'bomb stacks' so it could return from Jool, but obviously thats dead weight for now.

The ship at the end doubles as a lander and can land pretty much everywhere except for Tylo and Eve... it wouldn't be able to regain it's orbit there.

The large amount of fuel carried by the main vessel is purely to supply the lander for multiple excursions.

The lander should also be able to return all on board back to Kerbin should the need arise.

Here's a Pastebin link to the craft if anyone is interested : http://pastebin.com/LH4uBEWi

It will need the LLL (LackLuster Labs) Pack as well as the B9 Aerospace Pack, but you should be using those already hehe (For the amazing parts)

Also Mechjeb, and perhaps KSPX.... it uses some smaller 2m RCS tanks that may or may not be from the KSPX mod.

It also uses the modular fuel tanks mod, to fill the Jumbo fuel tanks with customised loadouts of fuel and monopropellant.

Wow!!! That's gorgeous! I am most impressed.

I do have multiple magazines working now.

If you have several different types of bombs, it tries to draw from them equally. When I tried it worked nicely: Bang! bang. BANG!!! Bang! bang. BANG!!! Bang! bang. BANG!!!

And I finally got the controls working so you can just have the desired magazines on-line. If you have them all off-line, it is the same as deactivating the engine.

In the first image, there are three different types of bombs loaded. I've turn them all off except for the totally outrageous 400,000 kN Armageddon bomb. In the second image, this is what it looks like after you've set off 10 of those monsters. Note the altitude, note the fact this is about 10 seconds after lift-off.

[Fyrem]

Note the altitude, note the fact this is about 10 seconds after lift-off.

Note the G force indicator.

yikes!

[Canopus]

I hope we somehow get around using that many struts. It kinda ruins the aesthetics of the parts for me.

[nyrath]

I hope we somehow get around using that many struts. It kinda ruins the aesthetics of the parts for me.

I'm still working on that. I have both the breakingForce and breakingTorque set to 1e32, but they still dance around and blow up.

[Canopus]

I'm still working on that. I have both the breakingForce and breakingTorque set to 1e32, but they still dance around and blow up.

Unity seems to have some limitations when it comes to the structural connection of parts

[Anglave]

That's beautiful, nyrath. I've been lurking this thread pretty hard, and when you get this version with individual magazines ready, I'm eager to try it out. Will the center column/feed stack be of adjustable height?

Regarding the joints, I read somewhere that KSP mostly uses what Unity calls "RigidJoint" and that it's (obviously) not perfectly rigid. Apparently if you use some other kind of join (flexible joint, maybe it was called?), with the values set to 0, it's actually much more rigid.

[nyrath]

That's beautiful, nyrath. I've been lurking this thread pretty hard, and when you get this version with individual magazines ready, I'm eager to try it out. Will the center column/feed stack be of adjustable height?

Regarding the joints, I read somewhere that KSP mostly uses what Unity calls "RigidJoint" and that it's (obviously) not perfectly rigid. Apparently if you use some other kind of join (flexible joint, maybe it was called?), with the values set to 0, it's actually much more rigid.

Thanks for your kind words. Alas I cannot make a variable height center column until I can make more solid connections. I will look into RigidJoints. I will also experiment with the method used by Quantum Joints.

[nyrath]

New Version Available for Testing

see first post for download link.

I did my best to ensure this version will not break your existing designs. My apologies if it does.

However, with any luck, s20dan's double magazine stack will suddenly start working.

The readme file explains how to use the multiple magazines. Be careful with the larger magazines, they are full of dynamite.

I am still working on implementing the throttling. It is taking too long, so I wanted to get this version out in the meantime.

[s20dan]

Wow!!! That's gorgeous! I am most impressed.

Thanks. It was a lot of fun to build.

Ah nice one Nyrath, multiple magazine stacks are working perfectly in the new version!

My ship is seriously heavy though with the extra magazine and large payload, hehe. But I think the original plan of a mission to Jool could still be on the cards... just

However those 400MT Nukes are very tempting.. I may redesign her to use those instead hehe.

Cheers.

[nyrath]

New Version Available for Testing

see first post for download link

Now with Throttling!

[Tommygun]

New Version Available for Testing

see first post for download link

Now with Throttling!

I love Throttling a big rocket.........that doesn't sound right does it.

[Mekan1k]

No, tommygun, no it does not.

Awesome! Nuclear detonation engine that mechjeb can control! There is no way this can go wrong!

[Canopus]

Thanks for all the effort you put into this. This is by far one of the best mods for KSP.

[Fyrem]

Nyrath, you have done well, can't wait to play with it

[Canopus]

There ain't no stealth in space, or is there? Just kidding of course:) But i found this graphical glitch:

I'm not sure if its a problem of your mod or something else but i just post it here.