Would Laythe really be habitable?

[llamatoes]

Let's look at Laythe objectively, yes it has water (or Kerbal equivalent), and oxygen (Kerbal equivalent), but it's rubbing noses with a gas giant. That can't be good for your rad count, and I'm pretty sure the tides a gas giant would make would be rather large, not to mention the volcanic activity would create.

Ether Laythe has a magnetosphere you could fly one of the Vanus' aircraft around, or developers haven't implemented radiation yet.

Edited May 12, 2013 by llamatoes

[Holo]

That's true; it has too much radiation to be hospitable.

[Brotoro]

It would have large tidal bulges, yes, but because the Laythe is tidally locked, there would be no tides that rise and fall like we have on Earth.

Radiation levels will depend on whether the miniature jovian looking planet Jool has a strong magnetic field, and whether Laythe has a strong magnetic field.

[Tada]

Well, it brings some safety concerns for Project BABYLON crew, but we´ll work it out

[Holo]

Jool's larger than Saturn, so I don't think it will have any problems on the radiation-generating side.

[Brotoro]

Jool has a radius of only 6,000 km. Saturn has a radius of 60,268 km. Jool is smaller than the Earth.

[llamatoes]

If we scale it up by 10, it is to small a difference to be really too different,and KSP is smaller by ten.

[tntristan12]

Because Laythe's orbit is near circular, the bulk of the heat generated must be coming from radiation trapped in Jool's magnetic field. The dose one would receive at the surface would be highly dangerous.

[MockKnizzle]

Perhaps Kerbals are more radiation-resistant than their pink-skinned Terran analogues. I bet it has something to do with being green.

Also... Jool is larger than Saturn...? Wut? Jool's radius is 6000km, while Saturn's is around 58000km.

[Brotoro]

If we scale it up by 10, it is to small a difference to be really too different,and KSP is smaller by ten.

I don't understand your point. Are we talking about Jool, or are we talking about something 10 times the size of Jool?

[Tada]

What about the far side that is not facing Jool? Would that be safer?

Well, my Kerbals will pack some iodine and red wine That will help...

[Holo]

I don't understand your point. Are we talking about Jool, or are we talking about something 10 times the size of Jool?

We're talking about Jool. By larger than Saturn, I meant comparatively. It just really irks me when people say "Jool is smaller than Earth 1:1 scale plz devs!".

If we scale it up by 10, it is to small a difference to be really too different,and KSP is smaller by ten.

This man gets it.

[Brotoro]

Without knowing the interior structure of Jool, we can't say whether or not it would likely (currently) have a a magnetic field. These planets are not like the planets in our solar systems inside...so you can't be sure any conclusions you draw based upon planets in our solar system will be correct.

[Aeshi]

I admit I don't know much about astronomy/astrology/whatever, but wouldn't a (potentially) life-bearing planet orbiting a Gas Giant spend half its time in an ice age due to said Gas Giant being between it and the Sun during that time?

[Xellith]

This thread may want to be merged with a pre-exiting thread.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/28451-Could-Laythe-actually-exist-with-real-physics?p=349863#post349863

But to quote Nova in that thread

The general idea I had was if you scooted Europa in to around Io's position through some gravitational mishap. The tidal forces worked to melt the surface ice completely, and keep an ocean. (The atmosphere is a bit of artistic license there, it would have to form through some other means, unless it's mostly water vapor or something) Eventually I do want to make laythe quite volcanically active in addition to just having oceans. So pretty much a melted Europa plus Io. Despite the surface liquid it's not really a habitable place. Very radioactive (like Io).

[Holo]

I admit I don't know much about astronomy/astrology/whatever, but wouldn't a (potentially) life-bearing planet orbiting a Gas Giant spend half its time in an ice age due to said Gas Giant being between it and the Sun during that time?

Laythe is heated from the inside, not from the Sun. If the Sun were to disappear, Laythe would quite happily stay warm for many more years.

Without knowing the interior structure of Jool, we can't say whether or not it would likely (currently) have a a magnetic field. These planets are not like the planets in our solar systems inside...so you can't be sure any conclusions you draw based upon planets in our solar system will be correct.

Well, it's all we've got to work from

[MBobrik]

Actually, a thick atmosphere would stop most of the radiation before reaching surface. Magnetic field or not. It would give, however, the moon the most spectacular and permanent aurorae ever. If it has got oxygen - nitrogen atmosphere, there would be a perpetual haze of nitrogen oxides high up created by the impacting radiation, which would produce a nice greenhouse effect keeping the moon much warmer than it would be w/o it and helping it to sustain liquid water.

[Holo]

This had made me think about Laythe's atmospheric composition, and my calculations show it has a molecular mass of 6.1 to 7.3.

EDIT: These numbers seem implausible for an O2/N2 mix. I think the devs didn't run Laythe's atmosphere through the equations when they designed it.

Edited May 12, 2013 by Holo

[Brotoro]

Actually, a thick atmosphere would stop most of the radiation before reaching surface. Magnetic field or not. It would give, however, the moon the most spectacular and permanent aurorae ever. If it has got oxygen - nitrogen atmosphere, there would be a perpetual haze of nitrogen oxides high up created by the impacting radiation, which would produce a nice greenhouse effect keeping the moon much warmer than it would be w/o it and helping it to sustain liquid water.

I agree that the atmosphere would block radiation. But I was not aware that aurora produce nitrogen oxides. Does this happen in Earth's atmosphere?

[lobsterbark]

Laythe wouldn't be, irl, even if you scaled it. But it is in ksp, because of kerble logic.

[CalculusWarrior]

Another issue: are the oceans actually made out of water? According to the wiki, the highest temperature on Laythe is a chilly 6 degrees Celsius, and it can drop all the way to -40, well below the freezing point of water. Of course, this is KSP, the oceans could be made of something like 'waterium' that has a much lower freezing point.

[Tada]

Maybe some volcanic activity under the oceans heating them up

[CalculusWarrior]

Maybe some volcanic activity under the oceans heating them up

I suppose then there'd be some sort of convection in the oceans. Say, that's something the devs should model in KSP! Fluid dynamics!

There'd be currents in the oceans, stray winds in the atmosphere, blowing your rocket off course, screwing up your perfect spaceplane ascent...

On second thought, I prefer the current model...

[Brotoro]

Another issue: are the oceans actually made out of water? According to the wiki, the highest temperature on Laythe is a chilly 6 degrees Celsius, and it can drop all the way to -40, well below the freezing point of water. Of course, this is KSP, the oceans could be made of something like 'waterium' that has a much lower freezing point.

The -40C could be the minimum temperature reached at the poles, where there are ice caps on Laythe.

[Holo]

Another issue: are the oceans actually made out of water? According to the wiki, the highest temperature on Laythe is a chilly 6 degrees Celsius, and it can drop all the way to -40, well below the freezing point of water. Of course, this is KSP, the oceans could be made of something like 'waterium' that has a much lower freezing point.

Europa is made out of water

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/28451-Could-Laythe-actually-exist-with-real-physics?p=349683&viewfull=1#post349683