[0.21.x] KerbCom Avionics 0.3.0.6 Alpha (29 August) - now with video!

[ZRM]

Tried out the bugfix. Now stock engine control disables gimbals, and combined control (apparently) disables all engines. Pod torque now appears to behave normally though. Also, I'm still getting gimbal roll authority even when no mode is activated. Is that intended? I don't mind it but it implies that kerbcom is doing stuff even when the UI says nothing is turned on.

e: combined control is showing "internal error 04"

Uh, yeah, that's a limitation of the "stock engine control" mode. I should update that at some point. Combined control should not be disabling engines, and the "internal error 04" is probably the problem. Please could you post a picture of the craft this is occurring on? Gimbal roll authority whilst KCA is disabled is intended - in this particular state engines use my improved gimbal control mechanism as a replacement of stock gimbal control. You can think of that as an upgrade to the existing behaviour, rather than an avionics feature. For example it will be active even when KCA is not installed on a vessel.

[pina_coladas]

Imgur was being a giant idiot and it took like 5 tries to upload this: http://imgur.com/a/f3K1c

The first craft was the one giving me error 4, probably because I had only one set of stupidly placed rcs blocks. The rest of the craft didnt give me any errors but they all displayed the same odd differential thrust behaviour, seemingly independent of kerbcom settings. In the last picture you can see that half the engines are throttled down even though no control input is being sent to the craft and the throttle is set to full.

Hope this helps.

[TomatoSoup]

I tried the bugfix. This system still works less effectively than simply turning on SAS. Your system makes it really damn hard to keep the platform level, actually. But I'm really starting to suspect that this is more due to an issue of user error.

Would you mind telling me how to actually use the damn thing?

[ZRM]

Imgur was being a giant idiot and it took like 5 tries to upload this: http://imgur.com/a/f3K1c

The first craft was the one giving me error 4, probably because I had only one set of stupidly placed rcs blocks. The rest of the craft didnt give me any errors but they all displayed the same odd differential thrust behaviour, seemingly independent of kerbcom settings. In the last picture you can see that half the engines are throttled down even though no control input is being sent to the craft and the throttle is set to full.

Hope this helps.

Hmmm. Could you give the me craft file for the one that doesn't work at all? Also could you describe the "odd differential thrust behaviour"? It's a bit difficult to tell from the pictures.

I tried the bugfix. This system still works less effectively than simply turning on SAS. Your system makes it really damn hard to keep the platform level, actually. But I'm really starting to suspect that this is more due to an issue of user error.

Would you mind telling me how to actually use the damn thing?

Most crafts will need the guidance torque strength to be turned down a lot (to 10-20% on each axis, for example) for it to be controllable, if you are experiencing either large wobble with SAS or overreaction to user input. This plugin is meant to be a complement to SAS, not a replacement. Due to floating point errors the solution it provides will not be exactly perfect, so it will drift over time without SAS enabled. The main benefit is the differential torque that allows vessels that normally would not be controllable with SAS at all to be controlled much more easily.

At some point I will add the ability to change settings in the VAB/SPH. The releases so far have been focussing on getting the algorithms to work, not so much on usability.

[pina_coladas]

Hmmm. Could you give the me craft file for the one that doesn't work at all? Also could you describe the "odd differential thrust behaviour"? It's a bit difficult to tell from the pictures.

I didn't bother saving any of the crafts since it took 10 seconds to slap them together. Sorry for all the double pictures in the album (it's imgur's fault). Everything in the album is stock except for some novapunch engines on one craft. The one that was giving error 04 in combined control mode was the one with the white radial engines and one set of rcs blocks at the top of the capsule. I saw you mention somewhere that your system doesn't like having one set of rcs blocks so that's probably why, no big deal.

The strange thrust behaviour is that when using combined control mode, two of the four engines are always trying to throttle down regardless of user input. No sas, no mechjeb guidance, no user input, but half the engines are spazzing around at below the user defined throttle setting. Even at full throttle, a pair of engines will be sputtering and pulsing at just below full strength. Actually, in the very last image in the album half the engines are throttled waaay down even at full thrust. Before the bugfix a similar craft would have two engines at almost-full throttle, but post-bugfix the last craft has half its engines at 5.4 kn!

I haven't even tried anything else, I've just made a bunch of short, squat, quad-engine landers and they all do this in combined control mode. I went into space once and messed around with rcs translation for a minute and it seems quite good.

[ZRM]

I didn't bother saving any of the crafts since it took 10 seconds to slap them together. Sorry for all the double pictures in the album (it's imgur's fault). Everything in the album is stock except for some novapunch engines on one craft. The one that was giving error 04 in combined control mode was the one with the white radial engines and one set of rcs blocks at the top of the capsule. I saw you mention somewhere that your system doesn't like having one set of rcs blocks so that's probably why, no big deal.

The strange thrust behaviour is that when using combined control mode, two of the four engines are always trying to throttle down regardless of user input. No sas, no mechjeb guidance, no user input, but half the engines are spazzing around at below the user defined throttle setting. Even at full throttle, a pair of engines will be sputtering and pulsing at just below full strength. Actually, in the very last image in the album half the engines are throttled waaay down even at full thrust. Before the bugfix a similar craft would have two engines at almost-full throttle, but post-bugfix the last craft has half its engines at 5.4 kn!

I haven't even tried anything else, I've just made a bunch of short, squat, quad-engine landers and they all do this in combined control mode. I went into space once and messed around with rcs translation for a minute and it seems quite good.

That's the thing - this new version should no longer have a problem with having one set of RCS blocks, so if you could possibly reproduce it I would be grateful.

I think the problem with the engines is in fact caused by something to do with the reaction wheels. I will look into it, again. At first glance reaction wheels look like they should be the simplest thing to take control of correctly, but now they're proving more difficult than RCS blocks, engines or even gimbals.

[pina_coladas]

That's the thing - this new version should no longer have a problem with having one set of RCS blocks, so if you could possibly reproduce it I would be grateful.

So I got a chance to fool around some more and I've reproduced the bug. You're right: it has nothing to do with rcs placement. It was because I had modified the white radial engines to have 10 degree gimbals instead of 3 degree.

http://imgur.com/a/Vjx2D

That same exact ship, using the gimbalrange = 10 engines gave error 04 in combined control mode. The ship in the picture has gimbalrange = 5, and you can see that the gimbals are pointed in odd directions. With the stock gimbalrange = 3 engines, the engines all point down like you'd expect. Again, the differential thrust kicks in for no reason.

I had more images to upload but I'm trying to bugtest kerbcom, not imgur's in-browser uploader! Hope this helps. Weird gimbal settings will be required for the kerbin mini shuttle...

[TomatoSoup]

Most crafts will need the guidance torque strength to be turned down a lot (to 10-20% on each axis, for example) for it to be controllable, if you are experiencing either large wobble with SAS or overreaction to user input. This plugin is meant to be a complement to SAS, not a replacement. Due to floating point errors the solution it provides will not be exactly perfect, so it will drift over time without SAS enabled. The main benefit is the differential torque that allows vessels that normally would not be controllable with SAS at all to be controlled much more easily.

At some point I will add the ability to change settings in the VAB/SPH. The releases so far have been focussing on getting the algorithms to work, not so much on usability.

Okay, I was under the impression this was designed to prevent the thing from rotating at all except under external input. That's why I was so disappointed when it would roll on any axis. I see the point now.

[ZRM]

Okay, I was under the impression this was designed to prevent the thing from rotating at all except under external input. That's why I was so disappointed when it would roll on any axis. I see the point now.

Well, it is designed to do that, but unfortunately it doesn't due to those pesky floating point errors. At least SAS can correct whatever residual drift is left.

[ZRM]

So I got a chance to fool around some more and I've reproduced the bug. You're right: it has nothing to do with rcs placement. It was because I had modified the white radial engines to have 10 degree gimbals instead of 3 degree.

http://imgur.com/a/Vjx2D

That same exact ship, using the gimbalrange = 10 engines gave error 04 in combined control mode. The ship in the picture has gimbalrange = 5, and you can see that the gimbals are pointed in odd directions. With the stock gimbalrange = 3 engines, the engines all point down like you'd expect. Again, the differential thrust kicks in for no reason.

I had more images to upload but I'm trying to bugtest kerbcom, not imgur's in-browser uploader! Hope this helps. Weird gimbal settings will be required for the kerbin mini shuttle...

That's strange - whilst testing it I was using gimbals edited to have a range of 10 degrees and 20 degrees. It seemed to work fine then. I will look into this after I get the minimal feature set for the new ADI functioning for the shuttle. I was expecting coding a digital instrument panel to be difficult and slow, but is in fact quite straightforward, so I will probably get some time to do some fooling around myself with the gimbals this evening.

Once again, thanks for testing and giving feedback. Eventually this project should turn into a half decent flight control system.

[TomatoSoup]

Well, it is designed to do that, but unfortunately it doesn't due to those pesky floating point errors. At least SAS can correct whatever residual drift is left.

Yeah, but that's what bugs me as SAS can handle it fine without your plugin turned on. But then again, I'm only doing the test case of the rocket VTOL with some extra baggage on the back.

[Dave7]

I may have encountered a bug with using this plugin, I'm still testing. With just your plugin installed I made a rocket with asparagus staging. I launch and randomly somewhere between the 2nd stage and last stage some engines will just cut off and say they have no fuel, even though they are connected to a full tank. I'm not using any of the plugin modes for the rocket. It's just installed and I hide it at launch.

I have rebuilt the rocket, replaced fuel lines, etc. several times and still had the problem, although the engines that cut off may change. I can remove the plugin and it works fine, then reinstall the plugin and it still works fine. But if I go back the the VAB and add a fuel tank or something the problem shows up again, until I remove the plugin. But then I can reinstall the plugin and everything still works. I have tried it half a dozen times so far with the same results.

I'll keep testing more rockets. Figured I would let ya know so maybe you could try it out and see if it happens for you.

[ZRM]

I may have encountered a bug with using this plugin, I'm still testing. With just your plugin installed I made a rocket with asparagus staging. I launch and randomly somewhere between the 2nd stage and last stage some engines will just cut off and say they have no fuel, even though they are connected to a full tank. I'm not using any of the plugin modes for the rocket. It's just installed and I hide it at launch.

I have rebuilt the rocket, replaced fuel lines, etc. several times and still had the problem, although the engines that cut off may change. I can remove the plugin and it works fine, then reinstall the plugin and it still works fine. But if I go back the the VAB and add a fuel tank or something the problem shows up again, until I remove the plugin. But then I can reinstall the plugin and everything still works. I have tried it half a dozen times so far with the same results.

I'll keep testing more rockets. Figured I would let ya know so maybe you could try it out and see if it happens for you.

This has been happening to me as well. I have tried various things to fix it, but they have no effect. I have no idea what causes it. I will keep trying to fix it though.

[Adyx]

Phew! It's not just me then. I have so many mods, I thought something must be incompatible. I haven't bothered reinstalling the plugin though, sometimes just reverting to the launchpad fixes it. Of course sometimes it just causes a different engine to cut out. This plugin is amazing though so I can put up with the (for me) minor inconvenience.

[Dave7]

This plugin is amazing though so I can put up with the (for me) minor inconvenience.

I agree. ZRM one other strange thing I had happen was I built a horizontal rocket in the SPH. I put vertical radial engines on it, 2 per end on opposite sides. When I launch it one engine on one end and one on the other end - opposite side are throttling, the other 2 stay off. I was using the combined mode and I think I tried standard mode too with the same results. The plugin did keep the rocket level but it was odd that only half the engines were being used. I was trying to see if it would keep it level with what I built and the fuel running out. It was very unbalanced but the plugin did a good job with it. Basically I was trying to break something.

[Ratzap]

The mod isn't loading for me, I found this in KSP.log, any ideas? I made sure I deleted the rar, downloaded it fresh and installed clean but it still does this every time.

[ERR 22:25:10.152] Failed to load assembly C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Kerbal Space Program\GameData\KerbComAvionics\lpsolve55.dll:

System.BadImageFormatException: Format of the executable (.exe) or library (.dll) is invalid.

at Mono.Cecil.PE.ImageReader.ReadOptionalHeaders (System.UInt16& subsystem, System.UInt16& dll_characteristics) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at Mono.Cecil.PE.ImageReader.ReadImage () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at Mono.Cecil.PE.ImageReader.ReadImageFrom (System.IO.Stream stream) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at Mono.Cecil.ModuleDefinition.ReadModule (System.IO.Stream stream, Mono.Cecil.ReaderParameters parameters) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at Mono.Cecil.ModuleDefinition.ReadModule (System.String fileName, Mono.Cecil.ReaderParameters parameters) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at Mono.Cecil.ModuleDefinition.ReadModule (System.String fileName) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at AssemblyLoader.ScanForBadTypeRefs (System.String file) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at AssemblyLoader.LoadExternalAssembly (System.String file) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

[ZRM]

The mod isn't loading for me, I found this in KSP.log, any ideas? I made sure I deleted the rar, downloaded it fresh and installed clean but it still does this every time.

[ERR 22:25:10.152] Failed to load assembly C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Kerbal Space Program\GameData\KerbComAvionics\lpsolve55.dll:

System.BadImageFormatException: Format of the executable (.exe) or library (.dll) is invalid.

at Mono.Cecil.PE.ImageReader.ReadOptionalHeaders (System.UInt16& subsystem, System.UInt16& dll_characteristics) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at Mono.Cecil.PE.ImageReader.ReadImage () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at Mono.Cecil.PE.ImageReader.ReadImageFrom (System.IO.Stream stream) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at Mono.Cecil.ModuleDefinition.ReadModule (System.IO.Stream stream, Mono.Cecil.ReaderParameters parameters) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at Mono.Cecil.ModuleDefinition.ReadModule (System.String fileName, Mono.Cecil.ReaderParameters parameters) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at Mono.Cecil.ModuleDefinition.ReadModule (System.String fileName) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at AssemblyLoader.ScanForBadTypeRefs (System.String file) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at AssemblyLoader.LoadExternalAssembly (System.String file) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

That is very strange. lpsolve55.dll is 32-bit, and since KSP is always 32-bit on Windows, this shouldn't be a problem. What version of Windows is that on?

[Captain Sierra]

This is the coolest plugin I've ever come across. Bookmarking this so I can download in the very near future.

[Ratzap]

That is very strange. lpsolve55.dll is 32-bit, and since KSP is always 32-bit on Windows, this shouldn't be a problem. What version of Windows is that on?

It's a professional win 7 64 bit on an i7 machine. Just checking the file in GameData\KerbComAvionics - (389,120 bytes) Created ‎11 ‎August ‎2010, â€Â‎13:20:12

Is there a checksum you want me to check just to be sure it's not corrupt?

[Gristle]

This has been happening to me as well. I have tried various things to fix it, but they have no effect. I have no idea what causes it. I will keep trying to fix it though.

Came here to report a similar bug, if not the same thing. While using Kerbcom Avionics, if an engine flames out for lack of oxidizer or fuel it cannot be restarted. I just finished testing this using a vanilla KSP install with only KCA installed. If you would like to confirm I've uploaded a pic of the test rig I used. Before lighting the engine disable fuel and oxidizer on the top tank. Burn the engine through the first fuel tank until it flames out. Turn on the fuel supply in the top tank. On stock KSP the engine would immediately fire, with KCA installed it won't restart. You don't even have to have a KCA enabled part on the ship to see this effect.

[Ratzap]

For some reason the KCA window opened halfway through a flight (even though the log says it didn't load the dll), I hit hide as I was busy but it didn't leave an icon. I've no idea how to get it back but then again, it may not really be working since the solver didn't load.

[strongest_2hu]

Came here to report a similar bug, if not the same thing. While using Kerbcom Avionics, if an engine flames out for lack of oxidizer or fuel it cannot be restarted.

It's been mentioned with rocket engines, but I'd like to confirm that it happens with jet engines as well: my flamed-out jet engines won't restart and the intakeair value showing in the resource tab goes nuts, blinking from almost empty to full to with flow values ranging from 0.00 to -30.

Engines which were not activated at the time of the loss of intake air (such as action-grouping the intakes off before staging an engine) are not affected, but apparently the flame-out sparks are welding the turbine blades to the engine wall because once that happens the engine is dead.

To reproduce: launch a craft with jet engines. Run the engines. Close the intakes. Re-open the intakes. Jet engine will not function. A trip to the space center then back to the craft will not reset it, unfortunately. I should note that I'm using a gob of mods but it looks like it's happening stock as well.

Here's to hoping you can get this figured out, otherwise Mav and Goose are done for next time they fly through somebody's jetwash.

[ZRM]

Development Update:

Quick message just to notify those who are waiting for a fix for the flameout bug that in between working on the cockpit electronic displays for the Kerbin Mini Shuttle project, I am still trying to fix this. I have made some "progress" - I have been able to make it so that the flameout flag is reset every frame. Despite fixing the disabled thrust problem this makes the solver think that engines can be used when in fact they really are out of fuel, and it makes the GUI engine status flicker between Nominal and Flameout. I really want to get this fixed before the KMS release, so that you can all reliably fly this amazing orbiter.

[BrutalRIP]

seems the rcs fx glitch has reappeared or at least for me it has only when i switch ships then switch back i have a lot of mods installed so it could be 1 of those but i realy dont know let me know if you need more info http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd206/BrutalRIP/screenshot17.png' alt='screenshot17.png'>

[havocx42]

The mod isn't loading for me, I found this in KSP.log, any ideas? I made sure I deleted the rar, downloaded it fresh and installed clean but it still does this every time.

[ERR 22:25:10.152] Failed to load assembly C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Kerbal Space Program\GameData\KerbComAvionics\lpsolve55.dll:

System.BadImageFormatException: Format of the executable (.exe) or library (.dll) is invalid.

at Mono.Cecil.PE.ImageReader.ReadOptionalHeaders (System.UInt16& subsystem, System.UInt16& dll_characteristics) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at Mono.Cecil.PE.ImageReader.ReadImage () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at Mono.Cecil.PE.ImageReader.ReadImageFrom (System.IO.Stream stream) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at Mono.Cecil.ModuleDefinition.ReadModule (System.IO.Stream stream, Mono.Cecil.ReaderParameters parameters) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at Mono.Cecil.ModuleDefinition.ReadModule (System.String fileName, Mono.Cecil.ReaderParameters parameters) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at Mono.Cecil.ModuleDefinition.ReadModule (System.String fileName) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at AssemblyLoader.ScanForBadTypeRefs (System.String file) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at AssemblyLoader.LoadExternalAssembly (System.String file) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

Hi, I am getting precisely the same error.

I also have Windows 7 Professional 64-bit and an i7 920 CPU