The Kardashev Scale 2.0

[NASAFanboy]

So, as part of some random project, me and my friends decided to construct a new idea for grading civilizations in technology.

Please, only constructive/improvement critism.

Type I ; Developing Civilization

Type Ia; This is the beginning point of civilization. A race at this point has achieved an "hunter-gatherer" way of life, and is starting to construct their own shelter. Civilzation is organized into small tribes, based on family connections. Humanity was at this point at around 10,000BC

Type Ib; At this point, the race will have developed agriculture, and may or may not have developed religion. Their shelters are more sopshicated, and other buildings are built for more trival purposes. Hunting is still a way of life, and ranged weapons are developed. Wide-scale goverments are built to accomendate rising populations and large cities. Boats and sea-going craft are developed. Writing and literacy are achieved. Humanity was at this point during the times of the Ancient Sumerians.

Type Ic; During this period, civilization is widespread. Larger boats take to the oceans, science begins to develop, and trading economies are developed. Humanity was at this point up to around the fall of the Romans, when Europe slightly regressed to Type Ib due to the Dark Ages.

Type II ; Pre-Industrial Age

Type IIa; At this time, small-scale exploration is underway. Gunpowder has been discovered, but this might vary if the other non-Terran civilization does not have the elements to create this. During this time, the science and literature is well developed. Also, at this time, trade is extending. Humanity was at this during the Renassenace Period.

Edited May 18, 2013 by NASAFanboy

[Holo]

Cool! Reminds me of my own tech scale. Type I was pre-technological, up to type XXVI which is human technology circa 1,000,000 AD

Edited May 18, 2013 by Holo

[comicbstudeo]

my one goes up to type XX which is essentially type V on the Kardashev scale. if you are type XX it will be like " hmmm im bored im gunna go buy a galaxy"

[Drunkrobot]

There is a problem with technology-based Kardashev scales, in that they are not universal. An alien civilisation may not have an industrial revolution like ours if their planet does not have hydrocarbon (coal and oil) reserves. If the gravity field strength of their planet is like Mars or Venus, then they could circumvent some stages we need to go through to achieve safe, cheap and reliable space access, only needing chemical rockets. The modern scale measures the power and information available to a civilisation, because ALL civilisations need power and information.

[Hyomoto]

I kind of disagree with you, Drunkrobot, simply because it doesn't neccessarily have to apply to other races anyways. The original scale, was indeed to do just this. but it could be a fun thought exercise just to locallize it to our own existence.

I think the development of the hive mind represents a large step forwards in the technological advancement of a species. The ability to root out deceipt has to be a marked improvement over previous systems. The universal queing and recovery of data would certainly have a profound influence. I don't know what tier that goes in but I think it's probably in one of them.

[NASAFanboy]

I kind of disagree with you, Drunkrobot, simply because it doesn't neccessarily have to apply to other races anyways. The original scale, was indeed to do just this. but it could be a fun thought exercise just to locallize it to our own existence.

I think the development of the hive mind represents a large step forwards in the technological advancement of a species. The ability to root out deceipt has to be a marked improvement over previous systems. The universal queing and recovery of data would certainly have a profound influence. I don't know what tier that goes in but I think it's probably in one of them.

I disagree, as it would wipe out all forms of individuality and diversity/culture. However, I may add it to the scale.

I'm trying to take in the factors that other civilizations might not have evolved in same way as us Terrans did. I'm going to take that into account

[Hyomoto]

At a descriptive level, you might find that very hard for exactly what Drunkrobot said. The more you localize it, the less appreciable it comes to other races. After all, we have no idea whatsoever how anything else will or has developed. For all we know, ours is a completely illogical and entirely unprecedented method of existing. It may turn out other forms of life will find us and scratch their heads.

The reason I point out the hive mind is because at some point in our development, our individuality, culture and diversity is likely a hindrance. It's the source of many strengths, but also weaknesses. Once we've achieved the pinnacle of those strengths, I suspect the next logical step is to root out the weaknesses.

[magnemoe]

There is a problem with technology-based Kardashev scales, in that they are not universal. An alien civilisation may not have an industrial revolution like ours if their planet does not have hydrocarbon (coal and oil) reserves. If the gravity field strength of their planet is like Mars or Venus, then they could circumvent some stages we need to go through to achieve safe, cheap and reliable space access, only needing chemical rockets. The modern scale measures the power and information available to a civilisation, because ALL civilisations need power and information.

The industrial revolution happened because steam engines and mass production increased productivity a lot, part of the increased productivity was reinvested into even more productivity increase.

Without hydrocarbons it would be harder to get this effect and the productivity gain would be lower and perhaps getting eaten up by increased population fast, mass production would not be affected but power would probably be mostly hydro, with electricity this enables large scale industry, downside is that this will be more location dependent and have more need of an good government, this would have to last until they get nuclear.

On the other hand an solar system with two planets with life would give an huge boost to space industry as it would be an huge interest in colonizing the other planet.

Think an larger mars.

[The Jedi Master]

Type I: Region

Type II: Planet (you are here)

Type III: Planetary System

Type IV: Solar System

Type V: Star Cluster

Type VI: Galaxy

Type VII: Galaxy cluster

Type VIII: Universe

Type IX: A GOD AM I

[Sof]

So basically ants and termites are type 1a?

EDIT:You could add bees and hornets as well as many rodents.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Sof

[magnemoe]

So basically ants and termites are type 1a?

EDIT:You could add bees and hornets as well as many rodents.

Yes, I also did not like the 1a scale, rather divide it in two groups,

first in primitive or borderland species, some primitive tool making but more important low intelligence, something like a Kzin would not need much gear as an human hunter gatherer,

think homo habilis and erectus, late nehantertals would probably fall in next group.

advanced hunter gatherers think most homo sapiens hunter gatherer groups like Inuits or the ones in Australia, requirements are decent intelligence and regularly make tools who work well within the limits of the materials they have.

For farmers or group 1b I would have the same inteligence and tool use requirements as for advanced hunter gatherers.

You wold need an special group for species who are intelligent but don't make tools because they can not. Nivens dolphins is an example.

[mrxak]

There are a handful of technological steps along the path of civilization that I think, broadly speaking, can apply to every species.

0. Tool building.

1. Dominion over food sources (through agriculture, aquaculture, domestication of animals, etc.), and raw materials (mining, logging, etc.), moving away from hunting and gathering.

2. Mass production of tools and machines such as with assembly lines, factories, automation.

3. Orbit achieved around planet (including landing on any moons).

4. Escape velocity achieved from planet to reach other planets, asteroids, etc. in the solar system.

5. Escape velocity from solar system to reach other solar systems.

6. Escape velocity achieved from galaxy to reach other galaxies.

7. Escape velocity achieved from the observable universe to beyond the observable universe (FTL).

Roughly, 3-6 requires a certain amount of energy, and so would be comparable to the Kardashev scale. 7 is impossible... or so we think so now. 0-2 is necessary to achieve 3+ with any regularity (otherwise it's a fluke).

Right now we're at 4 with our probes, and we're flirting with 5, but for humans themselves we're a fairly pathetic 3. I can't imagine any species that have achieved interstellar travel being all that interested by us, and even if we start colonizing the rest of our solar system they still probably wouldn't care too much about us unless they wanted resources from our solar system and we happened to be in the way.

Edited May 26, 2013 by mrxak