Structural Changes in the Add-On Forums

[Ted]

Hey all,

I've made some changes to the Add-On board structure.

They are the following:

• The merging of "Addon Releases", "Plugins for Addon Devs" and "Plugin powered releases".
  
• Making the "Modelling and Texturing" a sub-board of "Add-on Development".
  
• Renaming "Plugin Development" to "Plugin Development Help and Support"
  
• The merging of "Plugin Requests and Ideas" with "Addon Requests and support".
  
• The addition of [Plugin] and [Part] thread prefixes in the Add-On Releases Board and Add-On Requests and Support Board.
  

You should be able to locate your thread via your profile's link of Latest Posts.

Regarding the prefixes. For the moment, if the core functionality of your Add-On relies on a plugin - use the Plugin tag. Otherwise, use the Part tag.

Sorry for the inconvenience and hopefully this makes everything much more organised.

Don't hesitate to PM me if something is the matter.

Edited May 23, 2013 by Ted

[EndlessWaves]

All of the recent threads seem to have vanished from the Plugin Development forum.

EDIT: Some appear to have been transferred to the add-on development forum, although the PartModules sticky isn't there.

I don't think plugins for add-on developers should be merged with the general releases forum, it is aimed at a rather different audience. Perhaps it would be better to broaden the scope of the Plugins for Add-ons forum to encompass general releases between modders. Templates for various standards (fuselage cross-section models), compatibility information (how to add FAR values), plugins for add-on devs (releases and usage guides), documentation and so on. It should be information that stays relevent though, so it should exclude team recruiting and that sort of thing (and basic tutorials would be better in the general modding discussion forums).

Edited May 22, 2013 by EndlessWaves

[Ted]

Ah, sorry, I wrote that out wrong. The plugin dev board was actually merged with Add-On Developement, stickies and such should be found there instead and the Plugin Dev board shouldn't be visible, heh.

I figured that it would be better to have all Add-On development in one section as Add-On releases is one section.

Regarding the Plugins for Add-On devs, perhaps that information - the various standards etc - could be put in the Add-On Development section? Or, perhaps at a later date and depending on people's opinions on it, we could create a Coding Discussion sub-board, much like the modelling and texturing one.

[shadowsutekh]

I really didn't think there was a problem with the plugin-powered releases having a subforum. In my opinion, they are distinct enough from basic part addons to make them easier to locate.

Also wouldn't a subforum for "Archived addons" be useful? This would help clear a lot of the clutter from the addons forum by moving all of the abandoned and/or very outdated mods like Erkle's docking mod or Kreuzung's electrical energy plugin there. They wouldn't have to be locked, but that makes far more sense than some of this.

To me it just seems like when you're in school and you start out with various binders. One for each class, then as time goes on you start only using one and just shove all your classes' stuff into one folder.

Edited May 22, 2013 by shadowsutekh

[Moustachauve]

I really don't like this. I loved to have them separated, It was much easier to find out exactly what you wanted.

Also wouldn't a subforum for "Archived addons" be useful? This would help clear a lot of the clutter from the addons forum by moving all of the abandoned and/or very outdated mods like Erkle's docking mod or Kreuzung's electrical energy plugin there. They wouldn't have to be locked, but that makes far more sense than some of this.

This, though, is a very very good idea

[ahappydude]

Well that was confusing but we get used to it i guess, you could made an poll and asked the players =)

Yes an archive would be swell to!

cheers

[Ted]

I really didn't think there was a problem with the plugin-powered releases having a subforum. In my opinion, they are distinct enough from basic part addons to make them easier to locate.

So as not to make it difficult to find a part or a plugin, you can actually sort them based on the thread prefix, part or plugin, at the bottom of the board.

[Tiberion]

Sorry I have to say merging all of the plugins in was a terrible idea, there were enough active threads in both separate forums to require effort in keeping abreast of them, and now having them merged together the active threads are now more than a page long. It just makes it impossible to keep track.

The tags are good in theory but no one uses the correctly. Sub-forums are by far the best way to make forums manageable and quickly find the type of threads you are looking for. As the number of forum users continue to grow, we need more organization, not less.

I beg you to roll back at least some of this change.

[EndlessWaves]

I think merging the idea forums was a good idea, and bundling up add-on development doesn't matter either way. I'm not sure about the release forums.

The following stickies need work:

General Add-on Affairs:

Tips for addon releases. Formatting needs fixing and is probably better off in the releases forum. The fourth point there is also redundant with 0.20's new folder structure.

Addon Releases and Projects Showcase:

MechJeb Autom8 Scripts Megathread. Seems pretty dead now, would probably be better unstickied and linked from the mechjeb post.

Tools and Applications:

KSP Orbital Calculator [V0.10.1] - Now with selectable Celestrial Bodies. Well out of date, definitely shouldn't be stickied.

Add-on Development:

Packing your project for distribution. The situation has changed with 0.20. Ironically that method is now much less inefficient than it was for 0.19 but it does need some alterations to put ship files and similar in the correct place. If we need a sticky on mod packaging conventions then we can have some public discussion about it first, on issues such as source folders, readme names and locations, top level folders and so on.

Plugin Posting Rules And Official Documentation (also, Application Rules in the Tools and Applications forum). So that's where the PartModule sticky vanished to. It really needs rewriting entirely as two separate threads (rules and documentation) as half of it is now redundant/outdated. Obviously someone from Squad will have to do the rules half.

Modelling and Texture Discussion:

Attention Mod Makers. Only applies to the legacy DAE importer and not the part tools as far as I know. It can definitely be bundled in with other documentation by now though and doesn't need it's own sticky.

Part Modeling in Maya how to guide & 3ds Max- Kerbal Parts Guide. Both are massively out of date. I don't use either application so I can't judge how useful the information is but if they're left stickied then at the very least I'd suggest unlocking the 3dsmax one so people can post updated information in the thread and help troubleshoot.

Edited May 23, 2013 by EndlessWaves

[Ted]

Sorry I have to say merging all of the plugins in was a terrible idea, there were enough active threads in both separate forums to require effort in keeping abreast of them, and now having them merged together the active threads are now more than a page long. It just makes it impossible to keep track.

The tags are good in theory but no one uses the correctly. Sub-forums are by far the best way to make forums manageable and quickly find the type of threads you are looking for. As the number of forum users continue to grow, we need more organization, not less.

I beg you to roll back at least some of this change.

I do hear what you're saying and understand your concerns. However, I think that whilst the changes are a shock, we should at least stick with them and see how they fair in the long run.

EndlessWaves, that sounds good and I'll talk with DYJ on getting them updated.

[DYJ]

While I do agree that the high activity in the Addon releases board is a bit of an issue, splitting it in two based on a arbitrary rule originally set in place to divide demo compatible from non demo compatible mods isn't a good idea.

Having to look through multiple subforums to find the modpack you are looking for instead of clicking the next page button certainly does not make the navigation easier.

The same issue we now have with people not using the right tag applied to the subforums too, I was just moving things around to the right section.

The stickies are mostly outdated and I'm aware of this, the best you can do to fix this is to write up new documentation and PM the links to me. I need help to get the subforum back to its former glory.

[EndlessWaves]

I thought the division was due to the security concerns some people had/have about running plugins as well as the necessity to enforce slightly different rules (source code required)?

[FourTee2]

Just for the record, I'd like to throw in for a separate Plugin-Powered board... It just seems proper to have the mods divided that way.

[Fel]

I think some of the confusion is around how few programmers the game has compared to how many modelers.

The "Plugin-Powered" forums were very small with few threads compared to the general release forum.

On the other hand, "plugins" weren't always released in the "Plugin-Powered" forums... and "Addon-Development" doesn't offer a good transition between "W.I.P. to "Beta Release" or e.t.c." Subforums also tend to hide until you realize they're there; especially when the main forum isn't read-only... it can be rather difficult to find something when you don't know where to find it ;p

[EndlessWaves]

splitting it in two based on a arbitrary rule originally set in place to divide demo compatible from non demo compatible mods isn't a good idea.

I've just had a further thought, if that was the case then why are the new tags still Parts and Plugins rather than something relating to functionality?

I think some of the confusion is around how few programmers the game has compared to how many modelers.

The "Plugin-Powered" forums were very small with few threads compared to the general release forum.

No they weren't. For example there are currently 17 threads with the plugin prefix and 17 with the part prefix.

[Tiberion]

The "part" mods had a bit more "noise" because the entry barrier for releasing a simple part edit is lower, but I expect the amount of major projects of each type is close.

Personally, I don't think that Plugins were ever sub-category worthy; there should be a "Parts and Packs" and a Plugin-Powered forum, with perhaps the develpment forums for each under them.

Having seen the forums for a few days, I am more certain the current setup is not desirable.