The first update i have actually been disappointed in

[Fel]

There's still tons of new features that can be added, that isn't a reason why there should be fewer features and longer development times.

Try reflecting across the dlls; you'll find a LARGE amount of work being done.

The problem is that you all are "Spoiled Alpha Testers" and SQUAD wouldn't dare activate the plethora of unfinished features they included in the build because you all would complain about them releasing an ALPHA... with unfinished features... and bugs... and stuff XD

SQUAD spent a long time developing Resources; they had ideas and were coding things to make those ideas possible... and then they realized that the task was too large; so they deactivated (but did not totally remove) most of what they had done, and went to work on the update we see now.

The point is, just because you don't "see" the code, doesn't mean it isn't there. (And we don't know how much of the code they actually made the release-build with: people could have their own personal builds while working on various aspects but since that source isn't included, we cannot discover it via reflection.)

*** You know ***

Since they were focused on resources for a fair while, it could explain the "lack of a parts update" as their modelers would be working on "resource related models." They wouldn't DARE tempt you... now would they ;p

Edited May 28, 2013 by Fel

[Deadweasel]

Try reflecting across the dlls; you'll find a LARGE amount of work being done.

The problem is that you all are "Spoiled Alpha Testers" and SQUAD wouldn't dare activate the plethora of unfinished features they included in the build because you all would complain about them releasing an ALPHA... with unfinished features... and bugs... and stuff XD

SQUAD spent a long time developing Resources; they had ideas and were coding things to make those ideas possible... and then they realized that the task was too large; so they deactivated (but did not totally remove) most of what they had done, and went to work on the update we see now.

The point is, just because you don't "see" the code, doesn't mean it isn't there. (And we don't know how much of the code they actually made the release-build with: people could have their own personal builds while working on various aspects but since that source isn't included, we cannot discover it via reflection.)

While I'm completely with you on this, unfortunately the concept goes way beyond the scope of what most players are able (or in many cases actually willing) to comprehend.

Sadly this is just going to be the state of things, and is actually a complement to SQUAD's work that people are so vehemently crying out over perceived bugs and game-breaking issues. From those peoples' viewpoints, this game is already good enough to be considered a finished product in their minds.

The other unfortunate aspect is that because it actively supports modding, it tends to engender the mindset that mods being broken by an update is somehow the developers' responsibility to correct, and so results in all the rude backlash, instead of the sensible behavior that some of us would rather see.

It never enters some peoples' minds to make a backup and try the new releases as-is to see if it's a "good" update before rampantly copying over all of the changes they've made to the game themselves (through mods and parts packs). The expectation that that will actually work is -while a positive commentary on the solid work that's been done- is pretty much an unfortunate given these days.

[Fel]

The other unfortunate aspect is that because it actively supports modding, it tends to engender the mindset that mods being broken by an update is somehow the developers' responsibility to correct, and so results in all the rude backlash, instead of the sensible behavior that some of us would rather see.

Actually, I put the blame solely on the "Does it Compile? Check, Release" modders that the community has. There is so much... BAD in the source (including this crazy notion that everything needs to be a property... IsNull, AddOne... reflecting across C# reveals these aren't inlined, and they're so absurdly small that they don't even constitute a good inline function. Of course, others have functions that loop over material only to return an array that another function loops over... or calls the same function multiple times in 1 loop rather than optimize to do all calculations within 2 loops... it is a bloody mess!)

Still, point is that while there are quite a few GOOD writers who search through the API to get exactly what they need (though may not always be the best way to do something); the more, lazy writers are only making their code either "excessively brute force" (which can cause problems) or "excessively patchy" (Which also causes problems)... and thus making it far more likely to break between updates... which SQUAD will then get blamed for.

** Yes, there were many good writers that got hurt by the API changes; but the point is that the more SQUAD has to change, the more patchy code is going to be hard to fix.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Fel

[Deadweasel]

Actually, I put the blame solely on the "Does it Compile? Check, Release" modders that the community has. There is so much... BAD in the source (including this crazy notion that everything needs to be a property... IsNull, AddOne... reflecting across C# reveals these aren't inlined, and they're so absurdly small that they don't even constitute a good inline function. Of course, others have functions that loop over material only to return an array that another function loops over... or calls the same function multiple times in 1 loop rather than optimize to do all calculations within 2 loops... it is a bloody mess!)

Still, point is that while there are quite a few GOOD writers who search through the API to get exactly what they need (though may not always be the best way to do something); the more, lazy writers are only making their code either "excessively brute force" (which can cause problems) or "excessively patchy" (Which also causes problems)... and thus making it far more likely to break between updates... which SQUAD will then get blamed for.

** Yes, there were many good writers that got hurt by the API changes; but the point is that the more SQUAD has to change, the more patchy code is going to be hard to fix.

Uhh... Unfortunately you've gone far over my head with that, as I do not code C/C++/C#/ObjC at *all*. I have the barest notion of what you're getting at, but see, the thing is, most of the gripes have nothing to do with how well or badly the mods are coded, and everything to do with player expectations.

The player doesn't care about how well or badly something is coded (heck, look at Minecraft's popularity for the real litmus test), only that it does work. My point was that KSP plays VERY well and has a very polished feel for an alpha, and that tends to skew the mindset of the players who have little care for the code behind it all. Unfortunately because of that very polished feel, they also come to expect that things that have been working fine for quite some time will continue to do so across updates, regardless of where the functionality came from.

To their minds, there's no difference between the mod or the game; it's all the same thing, and the thing that changed (the game update that broke the mods) is the thing to blame for disrupting their play. They don't get that mods aren't officially vetted by the game devs, and that there's no internal review process to guarantee they'll work as advertised. The see something they like, and if it works before the update, it should just work after as well, no excuses. Sadly that simplistic view is far too common, and For those particular aspects, I thank Apple and what it has become most venomously.

As I have a lot of public interaction in the field of technology, I understand their interpretations of how things work, which is why I've been putting so much effort into trying to help others through education and walking through the process of finding a culprit where I can.

[Shiva]

Works fine for me, no bugs, just saying. I always use a fresh install btw.