Mun Candidates.

[your mom]

i have a ship now and its perfect but i wont show any pics because its top secret! 8)

[JupiterII]

If you don\'t already know, the mun comes out next update. This present a whole new challenge. Getting to the Mun, landing, ascending, and returning home.

So please, use this thread to share your ideas for Mun capable rockets. Also I hope to foster some discussion on the technicalities of a successful mun mission. While i\'m pretty sure most people can get the getting there part done easily, and landing will be a snap with Novas sexy lander, how will we get back?

My thoughts are we\'ll either require the ability to dock with a stage left in orbit around the mun, or just use a ridiculous ascent stage with cheat parts XD.

Here is my first prototyple, the Haries V. Needs a few nosecones and an adaptor, but so far I\'m quite happy with it.

The Mun is coming next update? Could you tell me where I can find out for sure?

[derhp]

^ You\'ll find that info here: http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=3150.0

In regards to landing and and re ascending, do you guys think it would be possible to land and reascend with one RCS tank and 4- 6 nozzles pushing up return tank and engine + command module, decoupler, chute? Mun gravity IIRC is supposed to be 1/4 of Kerbins, but we wont have an atmosphere to contend with, so the DV requirement to return to kearth should be quite light.

[your mom]

might be to heavy but we wont know for sure unless it comes out

[spawnofbill]

I call this the 'We\'re getting to the damned mun' rocket. Screw efficiency and weight considerations, the more fuel the better! As such it has three stages plus the lander/ascent module.

[Spiz102]

When I get a better idea of the moons scale I will build mine, but I will be using an orbit-orbit-land-orbit-return system so I can use an ion drive and save a hell of a lot of propellant and mass

[NovaSilisko]

150 km, orbits at 12,000 km, has 1/4th gravity of Kerbin with 1/64th mass.

[derhp]

: / I really want to be able to dock when the Mun goes live. Guess i'll just build a big inefficient lander instead. Someone hold me while I feel sorry for myself.

[Rhino1998]

This baby can reach Kerbol and come back for a munar mission.

And inside the shroud:

And on its Kerbol mission:

8)

(First Post)

[Spiz102]

Wait, if it has that little gravity, wont it make it feasible to use RCS for return to orbit after the lunar landing? You could always carry an extra RCS fuel tank that you jettison afterwards.

[Guest Flixxbeatz]

it kinda looks like an upsized version of my Epikon I

[mincespy]

Already build a lander module. In the process of testing it curently.

[derhp]

Why does it need wings?

150 km, orbits at 12,000 km, has 1/4th gravity of Kerbin with 1/64th mass.

Just saw this. Have way too much Delta V, I might edit the engines CFG to produce a fraction less thrust with the same weight and fuel consumption, that way I don\'t have to mess with my pretty rocket XD.

[JupiterII]

^ You\'ll find that info here: http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=3150.0

In regards to landing and and re ascending, do you guys think it would be possible to land and reascend with one RCS tank and 4- 6 nozzles pushing up return tank and engine + command module, decoupler, chute? Mun gravity IIRC is supposed to be 1/4 of Kerbins, but we wont have an atmosphere to contend with, so the DV requirement to return to kearth should be quite light.

Getting there is the hard part. You should be able to leave with little effort. If possible I would try to get a luquid engine just to increase my chances of getting home.

[mincespy]

Why does it need wings?

The wings are to stabilise it.

[comradephil]

The wings are to stabilise it.

In what atmosphere?

[Guest Flixxbeatz]

FLX Orbitron I. Capable of extremely elliptical orbits.

Pestilence and Catastrophe modules are still WIP. I might go upsize this OLV if needed.

(incase you\'ll ask, it only carries a standard kerbiter module the time at this screenshot.)

[Cannon_Fodder]

Wings also add drag when using an aerobraking maneuver.

[feanor]

Well, let\'s post some in here. Untill I can properly tune for moon orbit / direct ascent without huge losses in stage efficiency, I\'ll go for lunar orbit.

First: my RCS lander.

Named because it was the first one with RCS I build.

First: The rocket.

6 boosters and liquid core stage fire at the same time. As soon as the 6 burn out, the 3 smaller ones ignite. After these burn out, liquid stage continues to fire until an orbit ( highly eccentric ) is achieved. The 2nd stage burns for orbital insertion, circularization, lunar orbit insertion, and lunar orbit retro burn. It also holds the RCS fluids for orbital manouvres and attitude changes.

Then, the Lander itself.

3 pods of a descent engine, RCS and legs each. These engines will control descent, hold attitude, land, and, if fuel is left, help with lunar ascent.

and finally, the ascent / return to earth orbital stage.

holds RCS, normal fuel tank, and an efficient engine, and of course pod and pod decoupler.

Will do lunar orbit, escape from lunar orbit, capture of kearth orbit and retro burn from kearth orbit. RCS for plane change and finetuning.

Second: my simplified lunar lander.

Just 2 stages with strapon solids.

The rocket itself:

9 solids and the core stage fire at liftoff.

3 solids ignite as soon as the 9 are decoupled. The core stage fires for a few more seconds.

The upper stage / lander module has to fire for orbital / direct ascent finetuning.

The upper stage / lander:

RCS tank, fuel, lander legs, and solar panels.

This stage does everything. It will have to do lunar insertion, lunar retro, descent, ascent, lunar orbit escape and kearth retro all by itself. The solar panels allow it to slowly recharge fuel. The low weight makes for easy manouvres and high efficiency.

This design will probably be the closest. It might have to do a few orbits just to recharge fuel.

Third: my Siliskolander.

Named like that because it uses silisko\'s lunar engines etc.

The newest I made, and the one I am the unsurest about.

The rocket:

4 solids and the central liquid core ignite at the same time. The solids burn out just where the atmosphere starts to get thin. As soon as they decouple the 2 small solids give it a extra kick. Once these and the central liquid core burn out, you\'ve achieved an eccentric orbit with a highest point of some 8.000 km.

The 2nd stage / lander assembly:

This 2nd stage is used for fine tuning your lunar orbit, and lunar descent. All fine so far. The stage also holds RCS tanks and a SAS.

Now comes the tricky part; since i wanted to use a payload shroud for this design, I had to use smaller legs. The descent engine is novasilisko\'s, as well as the ascent engine. I wonder if this assembly will hold enough deltaV for descent, ascent, and kearth retro. Will require some more flight experience, but once i know when to time lunar ascent and the like this rocket could be efficient.

Well, I\'ll develop more and more efficient rockets in diffirent sizes once I have the moon and can play around a bit. I\'ll make an as small as possible lunar lander for Kerbal transport, a big lander without ascent stage for Cargo, and perhaps a true spacecraft stage that takes off from the moon and goes to kerbol from there, back from kerbol to the moon, and from there back to launch complex.

As you might have seen, most of my designs are based on the Delta II heavy variants; air lit solids and solids as well as liquids at lift off. I have Delta IV heavy variants, but untill we get better RCS systems / engine gimballing, I\'ll stay with a single core stage design. Due to KSP\'s tendency of parts to wobble, I don\'t like 4-5-6 stage rockets too much at this time. Once we get better decouplers/ stiffness, I\'ll go for Saturn V style vehicles.

An added benefit of these designs is that a radial-mounted parachute on each of the boosters make them perfectly landable for reuse, once that gets implemented; this should help keep costs down. Even the Center stage of the simple lunar rocket I have tested, and it can be reused by very small mass penalty in parachutes. All these designs have quite a bit of wiggle room in deltaV available, so these additions would be very easy.

Hope you like my designs!

[JupiterII]

Well, let\'s post some in here. Untill I can properly tune for moon orbit / direct ascent without huge losses in stage efficiency, I\'ll go for lunar orbit.

First: my RCS lander.

Named because it was the first one with RCS I build.

First: The rocket.

6 boosters and liquid core stage fire at the same time. As soon as the 6 burn out, the 3 smaller ones ignite. After these burn out, liquid stage continues to fire until an orbit ( highly eccentric ) is achieved. The 2nd stage burns for orbital insertion, circularization, lunar orbit insertion, and lunar orbit retro burn. It also holds the RCS fluids for orbital manouvres and attitude changes.

Then, the Lander itself.

3 pods of a descent engine, RCS and legs each. These engines will control descent, hold attitude, land, and, if fuel is left, help with lunar ascent.

and finally, the ascent / return to earth orbital stage.

holds RCS, normal fuel tank, and an efficient engine, and of course pod and pod decoupler.

Will do lunar orbit, escape from lunar orbit, capture of kearth orbit and retro burn from kearth orbit. RCS for plane change and finetuning.

Second: my simplified lunar lander.

Just 2 stages with strapon solids.

The rocket itself:

9 solids and the core stage fire at liftoff.

3 solids ignite as soon as the 9 are decoupled. The core stage fires for a few more seconds.

The upper stage / lander module has to fire for orbital / direct ascent finetuning.

The upper stage / lander:

RCS tank, fuel, lander legs, and solar panels.

This stage does everything. It will have to do lunar insertion, lunar retro, descent, ascent, lunar orbit escape and kearth retro all by itself. The solar panels allow it to slowly recharge fuel. The low weight makes for easy manouvres and high efficiency.

This design will probably be the closest. It might have to do a few orbits just to recharge fuel.

Third: my Siliskolander.

Named like that because it uses silisko\'s lunar engines etc.

The newest I made, and the one I am the unsurest about.

The rocket:

4 solids and the central liquid core ignite at the same time. The solids burn out just where the atmosphere starts to get thin. As soon as they decouple the 2 small solids give it a extra kick. Once these and the central liquid core burn out, you\'ve achieved an eccentric orbit with a highest point of some 8.000 km.

The 2nd stage / lander assembly:

This 2nd stage is used for fine tuning your lunar orbit, and lunar descent. All fine so far. The stage also holds RCS tanks and a SAS.

Now comes the tricky part; since i wanted to use a payload shroud for this design, I had to use smaller legs. The descent engine is novasilisko\'s, as well as the ascent engine. I wonder if this assembly will hold enough deltaV for descent, ascent, and kearth retro. Will require some more flight experience, but once i know when to time lunar ascent and the like this rocket could be efficient.

Well, I\'ll develop more and more efficient rockets in diffirent sizes once I have the moon and can play around a bit. I\'ll make an as small as possible lunar lander for Kerbal transport, a big lander without ascent stage for Cargo, and perhaps a true spacecraft stage that takes off from the moon and goes to kerbol from there, back from kerbol to the moon, and from there back to launch complex.

As you might have seen, most of my designs are based on the Delta II heavy variants; air lit solids and solids as well as liquids at lift off. I have Delta IV heavy variants, but untill we get better RCS systems / engine gimballing, I\'ll stay with a single core stage design. Due to KSP\'s tendency of parts to wobble, I don\'t like 4-5-6 stage rockets too much at this time. Once we get better decouplers/ stiffness, I\'ll go for Saturn V style vehicles.

An added benefit of these designs is that a radial-mounted parachute on each of the boosters make them perfectly landable for reuse, once that gets implemented; this should help keep costs down. Even the Center stage of the simple lunar rocket I have tested, and it can be reused by very small mass penalty in parachutes. All these designs have quite a bit of wiggle room in deltaV available, so these additions would be very easy.

Hope you like my designs!

Do you think that you could design one using vanilla parts?

[feanor]

Do you think that you could design one using vanilla parts?

Sure. It\'d be harder - not because of 'cheat' parts, but because there are no 2 meter engines/ tanks / long enough Solids. The mass fractions / engine power of KW challenger\'s packs are almost the same as stock, afaik.

So all you get with vanilla parts is instead of a single nice 2 meter core you have to build 3 stacks of liquid fuel engines, coupled with struts and a tricoupler. I\'d not make it harder, just way more work.

I don\'t think taking half or a 1/3rd of a standard fuel tank - like the descent engines for the RCS lander - is cheating - in fact, I think that should be pretty much standard. Same for 2 meter stages. SRB\'s would be the biggest problem, I think. The stock ones are ridicilously underpowered compared to liquid engines. Kwchallenger pack is the first pack with somewhat balanced ones. To convert this to vanilla ones i\'d go for a stack of liquid engines ( something like 3 ), a tricoupler and then 3 engines. Just a hassle, really.

Biggest improvements for my rockets so far would be 1.75 / 2 meter RCS tanks, and I heard that KW pack is going to have those, so I can make the rockets sturdier and more efficient.

I\'m currently looking at somehow getting more lunar stages fitted into a 3m fairing. After that i\'ll look what I can do with stock parts.

[JupiterII]

Sure. It\'d be harder - not because of 'cheat' parts, but because there are no 2 meter engines/ tanks / long enough Solids. The mass fractions / engine power of KW challenger\'s packs are almost the same as stock, afaik.

So all you get with vanilla parts is instead of a single nice 2 meter core you have to build 3 stacks of liquid fuel engines, coupled with struts and a tricoupler. I\'d not make it harder, just way more work.

I don\'t think taking half or a 1/3rd of a standard fuel tank - like the descent engines for the RCS lander - is cheating - in fact, I think that should be pretty much standard. Same for 2 meter stages. SRB\'s would be the biggest problem, I think. The stock ones are ridicilously underpowered compared to liquid engines. Kwchallenger pack is the first pack with somewhat balanced ones. To convert this to vanilla ones i\'d go for a stack of liquid engines ( something like 3 ), a tricoupler and then 3 engines. Just a hassle, really.

Biggest improvements for my rockets so far would be 1.75 / 2 meter RCS tanks, and I heard that KW pack is going to have those, so I can make the rockets sturdier and more efficient.

I\'m currently looking at somehow getting more lunar stages fitted into a 3m fairing. After that i\'ll look what I can do with stock parts.

I\'m sure they\'ll add more parts for moon landings.

[feanor]

I\'m sure they\'ll add more parts for moon landings.

I sure hope so; for any first stage that has any oomph to get a lunar capable spacecraft, you have to add so many decouplers, stages, SAS units and struts to keep it all from wobbling that my computer starts to freeze-frame ( and I have a i5 2500k + HD 6950 ! ) - whereas modded parts do that easily; just because there are 2m tanks and 2m engines.

[Payload]

This is what I\'m taking to the Mun.

This the lander. Right now, I\'m counting on what fuel is left in the lander and the then the tower solid fuel shot to get me off the Mun and on my way. Then I will preform maneuvers with the RCS to set my return for atmo brake and drop in on the second pass.

Many kerbals died in the testing of these concepts. We salute them.

Lander.

This is the contraption that will hopefully get them there. Back too if they are super lucky.

[derhp]

I really don\'t want this to turn into a vanilla versus modded parts thing. If vanilla parts get your engine revving that\'s sweet, If you like modded parts that\'s sweet also. People enjoy this game for different reasons, lets respect that.

EDIT: speaking of modded parts, props to the first guy that gets to the Mun with the Saturn V pack.