[0.20] Deadly Reentry 2.3 - reentry heat, plus thermal and g-force damage to parts

[NathanKell]

Sorry!

Go to gamedata, deadly reentry folder. Open deadlyreentry.cfg. scroll to desired part, change the number after maxtemp

[crimsonknight3]

its not the mod doing that try removing teh part then after it compelely loads exit and put part in. ive had wher game gets stuck on a part when the modmanager.dll stops working while adding stuff.

and another thing. since .21 is out about time for somewhat a overhaul isnt it. well i dont mean a complete overhaul just fix some small issues then look to make the mod more smooth in use.

Hey I just tried what you said and it worked first time, so thank you tons

[sidfu]

Hey I just tried what you said and it worked first time, so thank you tons

np since i use so many mods ive learned by by expermenting.

[Synthesis]

Sorry!

Go to gamedata, deadly reentry folder. Open deadlyreentry.cfg. scroll to desired part, change the number after maxtemp

Thank you, I'll try this out soon.

[HyperNovae]

Sorry I didn't read through the whole thread but does this work with parts packs such as KW, Nova, and others?

[crimsonknight3]

np since i use so many mods ive learned by by expermenting.

Thats how i usually do it but ive been out of the scene for a few months. Now i have another quite irritating issue. Not entirely sure which mods the culprit but if i describe the issue you might be able to shed some light.

Long story short is that if i die from re-entry heat (which i have been doing deliberately to test) the end of flight report screen (showing the events leading up to death etc) doesnt show but i can press escape and revert flight, however after dying by re entry heat clicking anything doesnt seem to work... Like if i go back to Kerbal HQ i cant click any buildings but i can click the back button, if i go back to main menu i simply cant click anything its becoming bothersome to say the least if i die i would like to know why whether it be excessive G's or Rentry heat. I would like to add that i tested by dying normally crashing into ocean and the end of flight screen DOES appear. Thanks

[Edit] After more testing it appears that the explosions that i was experiencing were (still kinda guessing) due to excess g loads. Ive been trying to figure out a sure fire flight plan to get destroyed by heat but i cant do it... Ive tried fast and shallow re-entry and the heat gets up to 1300 degrees but it doesnt damage anything, when i try a quite steep and fast entry i get destroyed due to excess g's. If someone can give me a simplistic sure-death by fire scenario that i can use to test this error im having it would be much appreciated, or simply a screenshot of the planet view so i can see apoapsis height and the general steepness of the descent. Thank you again >.>

Edited August 1, 2013 by crimsonknight3

[corumanime]

I love the premise and implementation of this mod EXCEPT how g forces work and that they can't be tweaked.

Please please do a version without g forces or add to config a way to scale it or just turn it off.

I want the challenge of the reentry heat, as advertised. KSP looks after structural strength and my rockets arent made of cardboard or tinfoil so they are built for whatever g they get.

I don't mind if a (configurable) g force has a chance of killing the kerbals, but please let some of us use just the heat part of this mod.

I love the more authentic thermal experience but I can't experience it because of the g forces. My rockets can't even lift off without blowing up even though they not overheating.

Thanks so much!

Corum.

[jrandom]

Corumanime, how fast are you lifting off? It's pretty difficult to destroy a rocket due to g-forces unless you're going waaaay too fast in the lower atmosphere. Got a screenshot of your rocket?

[corumanime]

jrandom thanks, I have modded some of my engines so the screenshot wouldn't be accurate and for now I've had to delete the plugin so I can play till its configurable. I totally admit though, when I'm testing upper stages or low orbit vehicles I still like to launch them legit and I like to get them up there as fast as possible, and I love it when you can get glowing plasma whilst going UP at Mach 3+, its kinda cool. But to see what I mean, just get a short/med 5M fueltank and put a Mailsail (1500) under it and see. Even though the engine does NOT start overheating, the plugin makes rattling sounds and pretty soon explodes. Actually I was thinking this prevents me using powerful launch stages but I guess if they only move slowly the plugin would allow full power...

...but still, my rockets explode often enough anyway and Heat is the challenge I want to add. In fact, one of the attractions of this plugin (Which is Amazing once we can tweak it) is it lets orange plasma happen at any altitude due to speed and not go white simply because of low altitude which is silly. Some people might only want that feature and make the Heat and G very forgiving. Its a great plugin I just can't imagine why the G force side is so brutal and has no config option, and with the huge stuff I build and throw around I can't use it that way.

For another example, I modded an Engine to work as a RamScoop and gain XenonGas fuel (roleplaying it as Deuterium for fusion engines) when it skims atmospheres at high speed. Thats not gonna happen if the G forces kill the ship.

Thanks again, I hope the author is active because his plugin is original and brilliant.

Corum.

[jrandom]

Ah, got it! See, I like playing under the most realistic physics restrictions I can find, so the combo of Deadly Reentry and FAR is really interesting to me -- I can make rockets that can go rather fast straight forward, but if they tilt too far off the axis of travel the g-forces/air-pressure will rip the rocket apart. I had to learn how to control my throttle and actually fly my rockets to orbit.

If I have the Kerbal Engineer mod info display up, I can get to a pretty circular orbit without ever opening the map view now. I'm also very good at hitting Kerbin's atmosphere just right so I can go from high speed to a safe landing.

[Ralathon]

jrandom thanks, I have modded some of my engines so the screenshot wouldn't be accurate and for now I've had to delete the plugin so I can play till its configurable. I totally admit though, when I'm testing upper stages or low orbit vehicles I still like to launch them legit and I like to get them up there as fast as possible, and I love it when you can get glowing plasma whilst going UP at Mach 3+, its kinda cool. But to see what I mean, just get a short/med 5M fueltank and put a Mailsail (1500) under it and see. Even though the engine does NOT start overheating, the plugin makes rattling sounds and pretty soon explodes. Actually I was thinking this prevents me using powerful launch stages but I guess if they only move slowly the plugin would allow full power...

...but still, my rockets explode often enough anyway and Heat is the challenge I want to add. In fact, one of the attractions of this plugin (Which is Amazing once we can tweak it) is it lets orange plasma happen at any altitude due to speed and not go white simply because of low altitude which is silly. Some people might only want that feature and make the Heat and G very forgiving. Its a great plugin I just can't imagine why the G force side is so brutal and has no config option, and with the huge stuff I build and throw around I can't use it that way.

For another example, I modded an Engine to work as a RamScoop and gain XenonGas fuel (roleplaying it as Deuterium for fusion engines) when it skims atmospheres at high speed. Thats not gonna happen if the G forces kill the ship.

Thanks again, I hope the author is active because his plugin is original and brilliant.

Corum.

I'm sorry, but are you sure this is the correct addon for you?

It simply seems like all your problems can be solved relatively easily by properly designing your rockets.

If you're getting shock heating in the lower atmosphere you're packing way too much TWR on your rockets, use a smaller engine. If you get so much strain from drag during atmosphere mining you can just raise your periapsis a bit. If you want to test upper stages you can test them on the launchpad or get Kerbal engineer to get an estimate of their performance.

I'm not saying the G force system is flawless. But it is there for a reason; without it you could easily avoid any reentry issues by coming in really steep. That's the balance in real life as well:

- Too shallow and your heat shield is used up before you slow down and you burn up.

- Too steep and things break and die due to the forces involved.

[crimsonknight3]

Does anyone have any ideas as to my issue (the post at the top of this page). Cheers

[jrandom]

Does anyone have any ideas as to my issue (the post at the top of this page). Cheers

I get this behavior occasionally. It's almost like KSP thinks your craft is still flying somehow even though it's exploded. It's not consistent enough for me to do any kind of analysis. Next time it happens I'll comb through the log file again, see if I can find anything.

[birrhan]

Ah, got it! See, I like playing under the most realistic physics restrictions I can find, so the combo of Deadly Reentry and FAR is really interesting to me -- I can make rockets that can go rather fast straight forward, but if they tilt too far off the axis of travel the g-forces/air-pressure will rip the rocket apart. I had to learn how to control my throttle and actually fly my rockets to orbit.

If I have the Kerbal Engineer mod info display up, I can get to a pretty circular orbit without ever opening the map view now. I'm also very good at hitting Kerbin's atmosphere just right so I can go from high speed to a safe landing.

Go on....

Specifically, let's say you're coming in from interplanetary space pretty hot, and hit atmo around 3000-3500 m/s. What's your reentry profile (AoA, peri, speed)? Assume a Mk1-2 pod (3 person), and FAR + DRE + KER.

[jrandom]

I haven't done interplanetary yet (my round-trip Duna mission never made it off Duna's surface), but I can offer up a standard orbital re-entry plan:

This assumes a 100km orbit, FAR + DRE, and Mk1-2 with heat shield, one drag chute and two radial regular chutes.

Create a maneuver that puts your periapsis at least a quarter orbit ahead of you (between that and half an orbit should be goodm,EDIT: Periapsis is always a half-orbit ahead -- I think I'm mixing periapsis with your landing target on the ground) at a height of around 30km. Aim your heat shield prograde and activate SAS. As you enter the atmosphere, keep a close eye on that heat shield orientation -- too far off and you'll lose your radial chutes. You should make it past 24km with everything intact, and even have a decent amount of heat shield left. Once the flames have gone out, activate your chutes and turn off SAS. You should land at around 7.7km/s, I think, which is totally survivable.

Edit: I just now remembered that heat shields are pretty heavy -- jettisoning it after the re-entry flames will probably lower that landing speed even more.

For faster velocities you want to aim for around 40km periapsis. Even faster, and you want to aim for 50km-56km and do a few aerobraking orbits -- after three or four (or six if you aimed too high) you'll eventually drop into a re-entry trajectory that will be slow enough to not kill you.

Edited August 1, 2013 by jrandom

[birrhan]

I haven't done interplanetary yet (my round-trip Duna mission never made it off Duna's surface), but I can offer up a standard orbital re-entry plan:

This assumes a 100km orbit, FAR + DRE, and Mk1-2 with heat shield, one drag chute and two radial regular chutes.

Create a maneuver that puts your periapsis at least a quarter orbit ahead of you (between that and half an orbit should be good) at a height of around 30km. Aim your heat shield prograde and activate SAS. As you enter the atmosphere, keep a close eye on that heat shield orientation -- too far off and you'll lose your radial chutes. You should make it past 24km with everything intact, and even have a decent amount of heat shield left. Once the flames have gone out, activate your chutes and turn off SAS. You should land at around 7.7km/s, I think, which is totally survivable.

Edit: I just now remembered that heat shields are pretty heavy -- jettisoning it after the re-entry flames will probably lower that landing speed even more.

For faster velocities you want to aim for around 40km periapsis. Even faster, and you want to aim for 50km-56km and do a few aerobraking orbits -- after three or four (or six if you aimed too high) you'll eventually drop into a re-entry trajectory that will be slow enough to not kill you.

Well, I've got a pod with a 6.25 m inflatable shield up top and the 2.5 m command pod heat shield down low returning from Jool as we speak. I will try some variations and let you know how it goes. I mean, how it blows up. The trick will be getting velocity at periapsis down below 3100 m/s (kerbin escape velocity) on the first pass, and without blowing up.

[jrandom]

Well, I've got a pod with a 6.25 m inflatable shield up top and the 2.5 m command pod heat shield down low returning from Jool as we speak. I will try some variations and let you know how it goes. I mean, how it blows up. The trick will be getting velocity at periapsis down below 3100 m/s (kerbin escape velocity) on the first pass, and without blowing up.

Take screenshots! I've never come back to Kerbin from so far away. I have done some crazy velocity tests using rockets in Kerbit oribt -- if you're going very, very fast, aiming somwhere between 50km and 56km seems to be good for aerobraking into an elliptical orbit, although you may go around many times before losing enough velocity to actually land. Should keep you from zooming off into Kerbol orbit, though.

[Lexif]

Go on....

Specifically, let's say you're coming in from interplanetary space pretty hot, and hit atmo around 3000-3500 m/s. What's your reentry profile (AoA, peri, speed)? Assume a Mk1-2 pod (3 person), and FAR + DRE + KER.

I just checked the screenshots from my last munar mission in 0.20.2, the only one with FAR + DRE + KER. I don't remember the exact details, but I have a shot of my capsule doing 3061 m/s at about 31 km. The orbit is 10000x10.3 km at this point, and the heat shield just lost 22 units (out of 1000). To bad I don't remember to what I set the periapsis, but I guess 15 km, or a wee bit more?

The next shot 36 s later shows me at 15.8 km, with a periapsis of -3.5 km, half the heat shield is gone and I'm still going 2450 m/s. The temp is 880 at the shield and I'm pulling ~4 g. In the next shot, 10 seconds later, I'm at 13.1 km with 2000 m/s, pulling 5 g and the heat shield is pretty much gone, but the heat is down to 470°. Two seconds later, the shield was spent and heated up to 1470°. At this point I'm still pulling 5 g at 12.5 km, 1820 m/s. At 2.5 km, the three radial chutes can be seen partially deployed, I was doing 245 m/s with 2 g.

That was propably the hottest reentry I ever did with DRE+FAR, maxing out both the g-margin and the heat shield. Riding the edge, a real nailbiter! I guess I came in at the typical speed for munar returns of about 3150 m/s. If you bleed off some speed with an aerobrake at 35--45 km, you won't loose much of your heat shield and get more elbow room with the g-loads.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Lexif
typo

[jrandom]

15km? Yikes! I'd call any periapsis below 28km "steep" and I had no idea that 15km was even survivable. Quite impressive!

[Lexif]

15km? Yikes! I'd call any periapsis below 28km "steep" and I had no idea that 15km was even survivable. Quite impressive!

Well, it burned through all the heat shield and the temperature came close to exploding that, too. But then I was at 13 km, and heat dies down fast below that, but g-force gets a serious problem. That's kind of the point, I could also burn off the shield with some orbits at high altitude and have nothing left to get me through the thick layers below 25 km (with FAR). Look at your g-force indicator when you are at 30 km, for this reentry it was maybe 0.2 g at 31 km. You're starting to lose your shield, but you're barely losing speed. The shield isn't there to absorb all your deceleration, use it to lose just enough speed to be able punch through the atmosphere without getting your ship ripped apart by the g-forces.

The ship was an Mk 1-2 with matching heat shield, ASAS, docking port and three radial parachutes on the pod. I just saw that I took screenshots of the Kerbal post-landing inspections, the ASAS shows severe damage, the parachutes are moderatly damaged.

PS: And the shield exploded when the chutes fully opened, so it must have taken quite some damage after the ablative was spent -- must have been quite colse.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Lexif
PS

[NathanKell]

Apparently I ride the G line way closer than you folks. I regularly use a periapsis of about 0km for my LKO reentries; I only go positive Pe when doing Munar shots. Max G about 5, 5.5, you really don't bleed speed until under 20km. Haven't had to do non-straight-retrograde reentries yet either (except with spaceplanes, obvious; there, skipping is very important).

[crimsonknight3]

I get this behavior occasionally. It's almost like KSP thinks your craft is still flying somehow even though it's exploded. It's not consistent enough for me to do any kind of analysis. Next time it happens I'll comb through the log file again, see if I can find anything.

Okay, thank you

In the meantime can someone tell me a flight plan that will guarantee destruction due to heat? What is the heat threshold of a stock mk3 pod? I can get the heat to about 1400-1500 degrees with no destruction, also if i try and go in steep to build up heat due to speed i just explode because of excess g's and if i come in with a very shallow descent i get high heat but it just gets to around 1500 then cools off

[Lexif]

Okay, thank you

In the meantime can someone tell me a flight plan that will guarantee destruction due to heat? What is the heat threshold of a stock mk3 pod? I can get the heat to about 1400-1500 degrees with no destruction, also if i try and go in steep to build up heat due to speed i just explode because of excess g's and if i come in with a very shallow descent i get high heat but it just gets to around 1500 then cools off

The part cfg lists the max temp for the 2.5 m heatshield at 1800°, while the pod is set to 1700°. But if I remember that right, heat damage also lowers the g-force tolerance. (But is this only when the part is visibly on fire?) So destruction by g-force might have its cause in heat damage.

Edit: Ah, sorry, I misread your post. The mk3-pod can tolerate 1500°.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Lexif

[crimsonknight3]

The part cfg lists the max temp for the 2.5 m heatshield at 1800°, while the pod is set to 1700°. But if I remember that right, heat damage also lowers the g-force tolerance. (But is this only when the part is visibly on fire?) So destruction by g-force might have its cause in heat damage.

Edit: Ah, sorry, I misread your post. The mk3-pod can tolerate 1500°.

Thanks, after 2 days of many attempts i got bored and gave up and am now trying to set up a base on the mun using the extra planetary launchpads mod. Pretty awesome being able to have your own VAB / Launchpad on the mun, using kethane to mine for ore to create parts! >.>

[Toshogu]

Been trying to get this mod to work, only installed it since .21.

The single man Pod w/ heatshield and parachute keeps burning up I've tried re entry from 150 to 0 and pretty much every variation inbetween 60k to 55k etc. etc.. etc.. all results in me burning up my pod. Is this compatible with .20? I have nothing aside from deadly reentry that messes with anything. All mods I have are just parts Lazor docking cam, lazor cam, grapple hook, kethane, stuff like that.

Aside from my problems, has there been any talk of a .21 release for Deadly Re-Entry?