[PLUGIN, PARTS, Development] [0.20+][0.21+] tek Industries Science v0.4.1

[King Jareth]

FYI besides Tek I use RemoteTech, DeadlyReentry, IonCross, AmpYear, KAS and FAR as standard (and Lazor Docking Camera) with ISAMapsat for the funzies and some parts packs of course.

Probably why my KSP takes half the week to start.

[scottholio]

My vote would be for Kethane

[King Jareth]

Kethane would probably add the most functionality to the mod so I agree.

[Scotius]

I agree with scottholio. With Kethane extension we would already get more use out of existing bits. Scanning for sample locations, then coming with a way to get there (just lander, or maybe it would be better to carry a rover along?). Besides, KAS requires a Kerbal to operate, while most people send probes first. While i'd love to use sampling in EVA, for the reason above i think missions extension should come next - so beginners could get into science stuff as soon as they learn how to put a probe on the Mun.

[tek_604]

OK, so, the vote is in favour of adding an extension based on Kethane, specifically for scanning for interesting rock sampling locations (I think this is what was being asked for, right?). I'll start looking into this next.

Parts wise, we'll need a new scanner model, but the first stab will be released using one of the stock antennas (Communotron 88-88). So thats more work for Jareth to do, he'll be so pleased

[scottholio]

Yes, scanning for sampling locations, using Majiir's brilliant geodesic map, would be awesome

[Kimberly]

What's the current state of this mod? It seems to have changed a lot, and the changelog isn't terribly helpful. I know there's no particular reward to sample analysis yet, but I'm about to launch my first Mun mission and am wondering whether it would be worth downloading. How does manned analysis work at this stage?

[sumghai]

tek, my understanding from last time is that you were attempting to decipher my ramblings on sample collection / planetary compositions / rare sample returns / resource integration. I'm pleased to hear that you're considering Kethane integration, although I'm mainly curious as to how you found my tome.

Ouch. I did not think about constant bobbing and swaying. As for Kerbal size, i think sumghai did some calculations in his FusTek inspired station parts mod thread.

Yeah I've used some of his dimensions to figure out how much space i've got to play with but it wont help me much for sizing an actual seat. With the .20 part tools I can load (in unity) Squads internal spaces though so I can use that to get a good idea.

Indeed - my measurements were only for standing Kerbals. Next time, I'll grab Jeb's Big Stick and an external command seat to get info on seating postures.

[tek_604]

What's the current state of this mod? It seems to have changed a lot, and the changelog isn't terribly helpful. I know there's no particular reward to sample analysis yet, but I'm about to launch my first Mun mission and am wondering whether it would be worth downloading. How does manned analysis work at this stage?

Personally, I would always say my mod was worth downloading... If for nothing else, if you start using it, you can always give me feedback, and ideas as to where you might want this mod to go.

Manned analysis works in two ways, depending upon which capsule you are using.

If you intend to perform the analysis on the surface, then use the 2 man science capsule. Land it on the surface, and collect the sample of your choice. Once you have 100 units of sample, you can then use the analyse sample button. You will then be rewarded with a mission complete message. Note that you can only perform a single analysis using this method.

You can also now perform analysis in orbit, using a 2 man laboratory. In this case, a lander containing a sample return module collects 100 units of your desired sample, and you then dock it with the vessel containing the laboratory. You can then analyse the sample (it is autodetected, or at least, should be). Laboratories can analyse 10 samples, and for each sample analysed, you'll receive a message. In the future, a supply module (and probably EVA) will allow you to refurbish the ovens, to keep the lab going.

Hope that explains it. If not, PM me.

tek, my understanding from last time is that you were attempting to decipher my ramblings on sample collection / planetary compositions / rare sample returns / resource integration. I'm pleased to hear that you're considering Kethane integration, although I'm mainly curious as to how you found my tome.

To be honest, I've not had the time to completely review your writing at this time. I did scan through it, and opened a github issue, just so I wouldn't forget. There is even an off-forum discussion about it actually! I will go back to it, once I have worked on the Kethane extensions, which I will try to tackle this weekend.

[sumghai]

To be honest, I've not had the time to completely review your writing at this time. I did scan through it, and opened a github issue, just so I wouldn't forget. There is even an off-forum discussion about it actually! I will go back to it, once I have worked on the Kethane extensions, which I will try to tackle this weekend.

I popped over to GitHub, and it seems that the userbase has, for the most part, warmed to my musings.

What I'll do is that I'll start thinking about the psuedocode for the statistical portions this weekend, and once you're ready we can review them and figure out how to implement them properly.

[tek_604]

What I've done this weekend is to take a look at how to go about implementing an extension using the Kethane mod, and I've looked at some new parts developed by Jareth.

It is actually really simple to implement a resource scanner; I have a stock antenna now acting as a "Rock" scanner. I will need to play with the individual planet settings, so that a limited number interesting deposits are shown as a small number of hexes, requiring precision landings. As it stands now, I have it using the same settings as Kethane, which is ok, but not really want we want for science.

I don't want to introduce a dependency on the Kethane mod, for those players who don't want to play with the Kethane mod. I don't want to rely on Kethane for anything more than scanning functionality (and detecting interesting deposits). What I want to do, is add a new plugin, which would require Kethane to use, along with a modified set of parts to use the new functionality. aha... I think I've got it... Add new part classes, which inherit the current classes, but are able to use additional Kethane function calls... hmmm... I think I'll try that later!

Another question is, what would be the potential benefits of landing on a scanned hex? What I don't want is players not being able to collect a sample, just because they didn't land on the correct hex, but there should be some kind of benefit to it. Maybe add a flag to the sample, so that if the lander lands on a scanned deposit, it is marked as "interesting", doubling the science points? Something along those lines?

I should also add, there will only be a scanner for rock... There's no point in scanning for liquid or atmosphere, as its pretty obvious where they are, and it seems that there is no way to limit where a deposit will be generated. So in the case of Laythe, a player could be really unlucky, and find that all the interesting rock samples are only available if Squad was to implement submarines :sticktongue:

The parts from Jareth look really nice! With any luck, new parts should be coming this week (he says without wanting to pressure Jareth!).

Finally, I will try and look at implementing a GUI of some description. In the future, we will need some way of following player progress, so a GUI is the only way to do it. What I'll be doing, is trying out A GUI framework for modders, being worked on by evilC (and others), to see if it will suit our needs. While I could probably work out how to do my own GUI, it would take a while, and I feel that these kinds of frameworks should be encouraged within the modding community.

[Scotius]

Why precision landing would be needed? Judging by the amount of threads asking for help, many players find it difficult to carry a rover or small plane along with the lander. Walking takes ages and jetpack flying is impossible on many planets. But it is an issue of player's skills. I like the idea of adding flags, and thus gaining more science points. As for scanners for different kinds of samples i had this idea of geysers and volcanic vents providing unique gas and liquid samples. But it would be overcomplicating things as of now. Maybe in the future, when/if devs implement cryo volcanoes that were initially planned for Eeloo?

[tek_604]

Why precision landing would be needed?

When I say precision landing, I mean within a hex from the Kethane map. Is that possible to most people? I think so, right?

[Scotius]

MechJeb is available to anyone So if someone have trouble with spot-on landing (like me , i'm always couple of kilometers too far or too short of landing site) can use it.

[Kimberly]

That sounds like a lovely system, tek_104. It would give the mod depth by allowing a simple low-reward path and a more difficult high-reward path. Perhaps you could dress up the rock scanner as a ground-penetrating radar? Those are usually used on the ground, but I don't see why you couldn't use one on a satellite, if you're willing to expend the energy for a super-high signal strength.

[tek_604]

Perhaps you could dress up the rock scanner as a ground-penetrating radar?

Actually, I've already decided to make the rock scanner look like either VIR, or the Framing Cameras from Dawn. If you want to know why, PM me

[sidfu]

to bad this dont work for me. it causes my game to freeze on start

[Kimberly]

to bad this dont work for me. it causes my game to freeze on start

Are you sure you installed it correctly? And what's your RAM usage with/without the mod?

[tek_604]

to bad this dont work for me. it causes my game to freeze on start

Do you mean on loading, or when you try to go to the pad? Can you try removing all mods, and seeing if my mod works, and then perhaps adding them back one by one? Could you also give more information, what mods you use, what version of KSP, operating system etc? Also, can you check the output logs, and debug console? Check the following thread for how to get this information:

NEED SUPPORT? Read this before posting

[tek_604]

Actually, I've already decided to make the rock scanner look like either VIR, or the Framing Cameras from Dawn.

I suddenly had a thought last night just after I posted this. A Blender model of Dawn is available from the NASA website (NASA Dawn 3D model, and I was wondering... How about we use this as the scan platform? An all in one satellite, available as a single part in the VAB? The engines would need to be removed, and I think Jareth said the vertice count was very high, so would need reducing, but, basically, I think this would be pretty awesome

What does everyone else think?

[King Jareth]

I like the idea of a prepackaged scanning solution like the white remote tech satellite for that mod, but similarly I don't think it should be the only option because part of the fun is building your own solutions.

[Scotius]

I agree with Jareth. I prefer to build and configure my own ships. And sometimes instead of probes i'm sending small, light exploration ships with one Kerbal crew and scanning equipment onboard.

[tek_604]

I like the idea of a prepackaged scanning solution like the white remote tech satellite for that mod, but similarly I don't think it should be the only option because part of the fun is building your own solutions.

OK, you've got a valid point there. In which case, I'm thinking that the Framing Cameras would be good for "scanning", especially as we can animate the doors when starting/ending the scan. Probably with a red/green light to show active or not.

One of these days, I will get Dawn into the game, if it kills me! Actually, if anyone wants to have a crack at some Blender work for KSP, you could look at NASA: 3D Models. Quite a few nice things that could make it into the game...

[King Jareth]

Oh its on my 'todo' list....

[Scotius]

Antennas, science equipment and other parts? They do look good enough to be used as a base for parts in this mod.