[0.20.2] Zenith rocket family (modernised for 0.20.x with perfect subassembly)

[wraith of vern]

How exactly am I installing Subassembly Saver/Loader? The installation guide on SpacePort is rather brief, and doesn't explain where all the files are supposed to go.

[Mokmo]

Wow, you simplified the launchers AND made them compatible sith the subassembly loader ?

I'm not even going to use another rocket to send stuff up from now on, the Nova is perfect for sending stuff to Minmus (obviously not a 160ton payload lol)

[astroadrian99]

Hey I was wondering What is this mod:

[Temstar]

Awww come on man, the name is right there on top of that window!

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/18230-0-20-Kerbal-Engineer-Redux-v0-6-0-3

[astroadrian99]

Awww come on man, the name is right there on top of that window!

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/18230-0-20-Kerbal-Engineer-Redux-v0-6-0-3

OOps that was stupid.

[TMS]

Great stuff!

Still using your original 0.19 Nova design for the big payloads. I modified it slightly to accommodate payloads with a wider base (which would otherwise be blocked by the boosters), but the whole design principle is just so reliable.

I invariably find that when I design a custom rocket for a smaller payload, it ends up looking identical to one in the Zenith series (only it looks slightly crappier with strut cancer everywhere).

On which note, what's your technique for hiding the struts that hold two fuel tanks together? You seem to clip them internally, but I can never make it work and end up binding them together externally... which looks far less aesthetically pleasing.

[Temstar]

On which note, what's your technique for hiding the struts that hold two fuel tanks together? You seem to clip them internally, but I can never make it work and end up binding them together externally... which looks far less aesthetically pleasing.

Hmmm it's kind of hard to explain. Can you show me a screenshot of how your struts are done? It will be easier for me to provide advice that way seeing how yours are different from mine.

Also, I'm curious about how you approach your design process. Do you start at the top or the bottom of the rocket?

I once wrote up a guide on asparagus staging rocket design. It's probably worth a read:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/28248-Is-asparagus-the-best-staging-system-%28might-contain-science%29?p=346702&viewfull=1#post346702

With Zenith it's actually slightly different from that method. I start out with a set of core stage engine layout I want to build (hence the II, III, IV, V, VII, IX and Nova's 12). Then multiply that by 100/22 to get the total thrust of the rocket including the boosters. Then divide that number by 1.7 * 9.82 for the total weight of the rocket. Then times that by 15% to get the payload weight. So basically the same process as that guide above, but in reverse.

[DerekL1963]

One suggestion that occurred to me last night while trying to figure out which booster I needed for a project - could you include the specs in the zip file as a .txt or the .jpg in the first post?

[Pontiac]

I thought I should make mention about post #2. The problem isn't with subassemblyLoader. The problem is with the state of the ship when you go to save the assembly. You'll easily notice that the fuel lines and struts are not attached when you detach them from the main assembly. So when you added the decoupler, you can save the ship with SAL by dragging the new decoupler root part to SAL, save, and done. Basically skip the entire file management routine.

I'm not sure if the behavior of the lines and struts changed between 0.19 and 0.20.

Thank you *VERY MUCH* Temstar for that post. We're talking about it in this thread: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/30696-0-20-Subassembly-Loader-0-20-Compatibility-Patch?p=452032&viewfull=1#post452032

[Feeeeliix]

How do you get the .craft files?

[fossil98]

How do you get the .craft files?

Look in the OP? (At the bottom)

[norso]

Really nice designs! I like to use them as payloaders for my new station, great work!

[starspy]

For some reason the subassembly mod will not load - ive extracted the plugins and plugin data folder to the root kerbal installation but no icon has appeared above the VAB.

[starspy]

It seems that the ship files (not the assembaly .craft files) have an extra piece that is what connects the launcher to whatever we want to launch. Is there any way to get those present in the assembly files as well?

Edit: to make it more clear here is what the first post claims that the Zenith II looks like:

but this is what it comes up as in my VAB

see the stage that is in the middle that sticks up above the fuel tanks? Is there any way to get that to be part of the subassembly?

Thanks!

Edited June 23, 2013 by starspy

[Commander Zoom]

That's not a stage, that's the (test, placeholder) payload. You're supposed to attach the subassembly - the booster - to your own.

[Temstar]

See the links at the bottom of the first post. The link that says "Zenith rocket family" are .craft files with the test payload, the subassembly files don't have that test payload and is meant to be placed directly into your subassembly saver/loader folder.

[DerekL1963]

See the links at the bottom of the first post. The link that says "Zenith rocket family" are .craft files with the test payload, the subassembly files don't have that test payload and is meant to be placed directly into your subassembly saver/loader folder.

If I, like the OP, needs more length - then I just attach a separator/decoupler and a couple of aircraft fuselages to the bottom of the payload, and then later remove Temstar's separator/decoupler and strut the whole thing together.

[FenrirWolf]

Nice job on these lifters. One of my biggest problems in craft design has been the launcher stage, and this solves the issue pretty handily! I'll definitely use these to learn to design my own lifters, as well as just use these ones when I can't be bothered to throw one together myself

[fractl]

I love these! Been using them at least a week for getting my spareparts into orbit for the OC mod. Thanks Temstar!

[capi3101]

Temstar, I love the subassemblies you built; they helped me get a hundred tonne tug into orbit yesterday (used the Nova, obviously). I'm liable to start using them exclusively on my newer designs.

Quick question: Where exactly is the probe core on these designs? Are they clipped in? I had to launch the payload inverted (a ship with 25 LV-Ns does not have an obvious point to attach to a booster) and couldn't find another control point. ASAS too; I could tell the booster had it but I couldn't spot it.

I also want to make sure I have the ascent profile correct; you say to burn vertical to ten thousand, then do a slow gravity turn to 45 degrees and then "by the time the third booster is expended, you should be nearly horizontal". I usually keep it at 45 degrees until the apoapsis is where I want it, then shut down, set up the orbital insertion node and light the engines back up when the time comes. Is there a better way I should be doing this?

[DerekL1963]

Quick question: Where exactly is the probe core on these designs?

That depends on the ship. On some it's clipped in underneath the decoupler at the top of the core, on others it's clipped in beneath the center engines at the base of the core.

[capi3101]

In all cases, though, it's not readily accessible, is it? I can't really select "control from here" on it, right?

[Temstar]

Yes the probe core is either hidden between the decoupler and the first fuel tank of the core, or in between the core engine cluster if it doesn't have an engine on the centre node.

I did seriously consider standardising the family so that all of them have a 2.5m probe core underneath the decoupler but in the end I decided not to do it. that 0.5 ton for a single probe core on the core stage seemed like too much of a weight penalty for a rarely encountered situation. You pretty much only needs to touch the probe core for "control from here" if you're launching payload upside down or horizontally (usually large rovers). For such situations I personally find it more useful to engineer the guidance solution on the payload itself, keep in mind that you don't need to have a probe core or command pod, docking ports allow "control from here" too.

Worst comes to worst you could always just add a probe core to the booster on a case by case basis.

[capi3101]

Tried putting a second probe core right next to the first (inverted relative to it, of course); payload seemed to have developed the knack for completely disassembling itself once I hit about 45,000. Of course, you don't notice that until the booster stops burning completely and the whole thing flies apart, but you definitely get the notion that something ain't right when the nav ball suddenly flips over and you lose control of the vehicle...

[Temstar]

One other solution is to just replace the 2.5m decoupler that connects the rocket to the payload with a 2.5m senior docking port. Right click on the docking port before launch will allow you to do "control from here" with the correct navball orientation. Then instead of stage to release the payload you just right click + undock or use action group..