Would allowing countries to claim land in space encourage more space flight?

[M83]

It worked for encouraging exploration of the Americas and it worked for encouraging the expansion of railroads in America. Give it a try.

Isn't a historical example like that a bit flawed in the fact that exploration of the Americas had the downfall of the systematic extermination of some of the natives and numerous wars due to conflicting land claims (French and Indian War, Mexican-American War, etc.)

I personally don't think we need political agendas setting space colonization. Here on Earth we have peacekeeping organizations such as the UN to prevent diplomatic issues; allowing companies to stake a claim in space would be asinine to the development of peace.

[Brotoro]

Isn't a historical example like that a bit flawed in the fact that exploration of the Americas had the downfall of the systematic extermination of some of the natives and numerous wars due to conflicting land claims (French and Indian War, Mexican-American War, etc.)

I personally don't think we need political agendas setting space colonization. Here on Earth we have peacekeeping organizations such as the UN to prevent diplomatic issues; allowing companies to stake a claim in space would be asinine to the development of peace.

Are you afraid we're going to exterminate some space critters when we mine the asteroids for resources? With half a million asteroids spread out over a HUGE area, there's plenty of room for lots of mining operations further apart than we are from the Sun. No need to fight, boys.

[Acidum]

Are you afraid we're going to exterminate some space critters when we mine the asteroids for resources? With half a million asteroids spread out over a HUGE area, there's plenty of room for lots of mining operations further apart than we are from the Sun. No need to fight, boys.

First - No, we are afraid that people will wage numerous wars and low-scale conflicts (diversions and terror-like activities) with a lot of killing on Earth.

Second - Yeah, thousands and thousands of asteroids in huge area, colliding, grinding and demolishing each other regularly... So any mining colony IN asteroid belt will be constantly bombarded by multi-million-ton rocks. So, if anyone wants to do some space rock mining, only targets would be strayed asteroids travelling on highly elliptical solar orbits crossing near Earth (or other future mother planet) at some point(s) in time. And since those are highly limited in numbers, from the moment we gain technology for such endeavour - conflicts between corporations on who owns the "rights" to mine that specific rock will emerge.

[Brotoro]

First - No, we are afraid that people will wage numerous wars and low-scale conflicts (diversions and terror-like activities) with a lot of killing on Earth.

Second - Yeah, thousands and thousands of asteroids in huge area, colliding, grinding and demolishing each other regularly... So any mining colony IN asteroid belt will be constantly bombarded by multi-million-ton rocks. So, if anyone wants to do some space rock mining, only targets would be strayed asteroids travelling on highly elliptical solar orbits crossing near Earth (or other future mother planet) at some point(s) in time. And since those are highly limited in numbers, from the moment we gain technology for such endeavour - conflicts between corporations on who owns the "rights" to mine that specific rock will emerge.

Nonsense. The asteroids in the asteroid belt are huge distances apart...they aren't constantly smashing into each other. You've been watching too many movies made by idiots.

[M83]

Are you afraid we're going to exterminate some space critters when we mine the asteroids for resources? With half a million asteroids spread out over a HUGE area, there's plenty of room for lots of mining operations further apart than we are from the Sun. No need to fight, boys.

Not one bit, since there isn't any proven life in our solar system so far. I'm jus stating that the past of global conflicts that humanity has does not bode well for allowing territorial claims in space. Territory is a major catalyst for war.

Simply stating a point, just like everyone else.

[Brotoro]

Not one bit, since there isn't any proven life in our solar system so far. I'm jus stating that the past of global conflicts that humanity has does not bode well for allowing territorial claims in space. Territory is a major catalyst for war.

Simply stating a point, just like everyone else.

So your bringing up extermination of the natives is extraneous to the current argument.

The conflicts that you mentioned were not between the companies that were given charters to exploit the resources in the Americas...they were between political entities, either colonial powers or independent countries formed in the areas after populations moved in. I'm talking about earlier than that when companies like the Hudson's Bay Company (which I was surprised to learn still exists) and the Virginia Company and Plymouth Company and others were given charters to develop the infrastructures to exploit the resources of the new world. These guys weren't fighting each other.

And when the American Congress and Abraham Lincoln wanted to open up access to the West, they did it with the Pacific Railroad Acts that authorized giving the rights of ways and lots of adjoining land to the Union Pacific, Central Pacific, and Southern Pacific Railroads as economic incentives. It was extremely effective. And these companies weren't fighting wars with each other.

And when we needed to access the mineral wealth of the country, Congress enacted mining laws that gave companies and individuals the ability to file claims on federal land as long as they were actively exploiting the resources from that land. Yes, there were small scale conflicts between prospectors and claim jumpers, but not major wars. The government gave them the economic incentives, and they got the job done. This would not have happened if there were laws saying that all the goodies out west were the property of the American people and needed to be shared equally...there would have been insufficient economic incentive for those resources to be developed, so they would have sat there.

The asteroid belt and the Moon are huge places, and there's plenty of room for lots of companies to go in and exploit the mineral wealth that we need back here on Earth. Some people have said it's NOT economically viable to get resources from space... my response was that you give out the charters to the companies that want to try, and I'm willing to bet they will succeed.

Will countries that eventually claim jurisdiction over these areas when they DO prove profitable (or political entities that eventually form in space once enough people move out there) butt heads over the areas? Quite possibly.

But I'll tell you what's CERTAIN (because it's already happening): If you limit people to just the dwindling resources we have on Earth, there will continue to be wars on the planet over those resources.

Getting resources from space will decrease the pressures to fight over resources here at home. And giving economic incentives for people and companies to exploit those resources is how we can get this done (and by economic incentives, I don't mean paying them to do it...I mean letting them try to do it on their own and letting them keep the bulk of the profits they make). Get people out in the rocks and let them get filthy rich, and we all get extra resources. Plus, we get out of the cradle and start spreading people around so one Big Rock can't kill us all.

[jwenting]

...destroying incredibly expensive property of most other nations in the world and starting WWIII. When will people realise countries don't act like they do in bad video games for very good reasons? Oh, and they don't have that capability. Their ASAT systems were all cancelled after the collapse, and were LEO-only anyway.

They were cancelled the same way their ICBM program was cancelled...

We don't know they were LEO-only, though it is likely they would have been mosly LEO. Of course given the far more predictable orbits of GEO sats, a GEO ASAT doesn't have to be as smart. The main trick is getting your GEO ASAT up there without giving the opponent time to move his own sats out of the way, as the ascent takes a lot longer.

Prepositioning is the key for that, I'd not be at all surprised if the Soviets (and maybe others) have done just that, prepositioned killers near potential targets in GEO to activate in case war breaks out.

Are those still up there? Almost certainly. Are they still functional? Unknown, bit hard to test the things... Do the Russians still have the control systems to access them? They still have everything else the Soviets built, so why not.

Not saying they have it, but if anyone does it'd be them. And with the "right" guy at the helm over there they'd not care much about that potential war, if they control space they can pretty much do what they like anyway as all of NATO systems left depend so heavily on GPS which wouldn't exist any more they'd be so much lumbs of inert steel and plastic.