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[1.0.X - Experimental] [On Hold] FusTek Station Parts (WIPs on GitHub)

sumghai

By sumghai
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Yalin Hawk

Yalin Hawk

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I'm have a feeling that's not quite the full reason - I used 6h Kerbin days on the older version of TAC-LS just fine.

I'm going to read up on the TAC LS thread to see what I can do, since TaranisElsu isn't going to be around for the next couple of weeks.

As far as I can tell, the primary change to TAC LS was the switch in how Kerbals consume resources. Instead of carrying enough resources for "1 day", resources are now stored in Liters and Kerbals consume X liters per hour. To quote TaranisElsu:

Note: This release is not compatible with previous releases. Because of changing the definition of a "unit" to mean "1 liter" instead of "1 day of consumption," existing ships' supplies will last for a very different amount of time. Most will have way too little Oxygen (Kerbals now consume ~304 units of Oxygen per 24 hours instead of 1 unit). Also, the mass of supplies has changed in all parts, so your dV and TWR will be very different. These are not horribly breaking changes, but it means you will need to either: (1) edit the amount of resources in existing ships or (2) launch a lot more resources to any existing ships before upgrading. If you have no existing ships with Kerbals aboard, then you do not need to worry and should be safe to upgrade.

For more information, here is a link to a spreadsheet TaranisElsu created to help convert human consumption rates to kerbals. There is a "summary" towards the middle/bottom that might be of the most use.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aioc9ek3XAvwdGNsRlh3OVhlbTFBR3M4RW0zLUNTRFE&usp=sharing#gid=0

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Starwaster

Starwaster

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As far as I can tell, the primary change to TAC LS was the switch in how Kerbals consume resources. Instead of carrying enough resources for "1 day", resources are now stored in Liters and Kerbals consume X liters per hour. To quote TaranisElsu:

For more information, here is a link to a spreadsheet TaranisElsu created to help convert human consumption rates to kerbals. There is a "summary" towards the middle/bottom that might be of the most use.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aioc9ek3XAvwdGNsRlh3OVhlbTFBR3M4RW0zLUNTRFE&usp=sharing#gid=0

That could be a reasonable amount to assume for a Kerbal, but that figure would have to be uncompressed, 1 atm pressure. How much would a 1 liter tank in TAC actually hold? (and yes, I know I'm not phrasing it well)

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sumghai

sumghai

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sumghai, the new TAC-LS just changed the units and rates of consumption to liters. There seems to be a slight change in the TacGenericConveter definition as well but nothing too substantial. I've created a personal MM config for your station parts for the new version.

I removed most of the carbon extractors and life support resources from most of the modules since they are used for the entire station and don't seem to be needed in every specific module. I gave the Utility / Logistics Module the equivalent of a Large Carbon Extractor and a Large Water Purifier. According to TAC-LS these are good for 7-8 kerbals. For the Storage Module and the Resupply Pod I used the values of a Large Life Support pod. I also used :Final just in case as I was testing. I should probably remove it.

Why no O2 generator?

My understanding is that the Carbon Extractor takes out the C in CO2 to make O2 ;)

For more information, here is a link to a spreadsheet TaranisElsu created to help convert human consumption rates to kerbals. There is a "summary" towards the middle/bottom that might be of the most use.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aioc9ek3XAvwdGNsRlh3OVhlbTFBR3M4RW0zLUNTRFE&usp=sharing#gid=0

That could be a reasonable amount to assume for a Kerbal, but that figure would have to be uncompressed, 1 atm pressure. How much would a 1 liter tank in TAC actually hold? (and yes, I know I'm not phrasing it well)

I read up on the spreadsheet a while back, but I didn't scroll down far enough to see the summary (derp). Thanks!

Now, that being said, it seems there are multiple sets of values (density differences omitted for clarity):

[TABLE=width: 700]

[TR]

[TD]Resource

[/TD]

[TD]Kerbal kg/Kerbin-day[/TD]

[TD]Kerbal L/Kerbin-day

[/TD]

[TD]Kerbal L/Kerbin-day (stored)

[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Food[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0.100625[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0.365625[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0.100625[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Water[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0.2416625[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0.2416625[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0.2416625[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Oxygen[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0.0521875[/TD]

[TD=align: right]37.0124113475177[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0.167374919820398[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Carbon Dioxide[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0.062375[/TD]

[TD=align: right]31.970784213224[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0.067134861694113[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Waste Water[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0.30928875[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0.30775[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0.30928875[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Waste[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0.02281125[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0.030415[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0.02281125[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

It seems like I'm supposed to specify quantities using the "stored" values, although in order for consumption to be correct, some sort of utilization value from the spreadsheet must also be used.

We're getting there, guys. We're getting there...

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DerekL1963

DerekL1963

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My understanding is that the Carbon Extractor takes out the C in CO2 to make O2 ;)

Yes, which is why it's called a Carbon Extractor. ;) I used the wrong term, maxima mea culpa, the proper question should be be "why no water splitter"?

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Gargamel

Gargamel

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Hi!

Using an older version of this mod, I'm running 23.x right now, but i think my mod version is even older.

I'm having issues with the Center of Mass on the modules.

I'm trying to build rovers using these parts, and having them land horizontally is a real pain, as the COM is shifted to about 1/3 of the way along the length each module. Thrusting from above is creating torque issues.

Is there a line in the part.cfg I can edit to center the COM?

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Kanddak

Kanddak

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The COMoffset parameter in the cfg should do the trick. But there was a reason for that offset to be there: a bug in KSP where airlocks don't work properly if they're more than a certain distance from the part's COM.

That bug might have been fixed at some point, but I didn't pay very close attention, because sumghai removed all the offsets concurrently with the removal of the airlocks from non-airlock modules in more recent versions of the mod.

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sumghai

sumghai

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Yes, which is why it's called a Carbon Extractor. ;) I used the wrong term, maxima mea culpa, the proper question should be be "why no water splitter"?

My understanding is that the water splitter produces Oxygen and Hydrogen. Since the hydrogen byproduct has no other use in a non-RealFuels savegame, I decided against adding such a converter.

Hi!

Using an older version of this mod, I'm running 23.x right now, but i think my mod version is even older.

I'm having issues with the Center of Mass on the modules.

I'm trying to build rovers using these parts, and having them land horizontally is a real pain, as the COM is shifted to about 1/3 of the way along the length each module. Thrusting from above is creating torque issues.

Is there a line in the part.cfg I can edit to center the COM?

The COMoffset parameter in the cfg should do the trick. But there was a reason for that offset to be there: a bug in KSP where airlocks don't work properly if they're more than a certain distance from the part's COM.

That bug might have been fixed at some point, but I didn't pay very close attention, because sumghai removed all the offsets concurrently with the removal of the airlocks from non-airlock modules in more recent versions of the mod.

As far as I'm aware, the CoM / Airlock obstruction bug has never been fixed, since no stock parts have airlocks as far away from the CoM as mine are.

gargamel - I strongly recommend you update to the latest version and start over, as the parts have changed significantly (texture + model reuse) and I've removed airlocks from all non-airlock modules.

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Royalkin

Royalkin

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Does anyone know if this mod is working on 0.24.2? I've downloaded and installed the dependent mods and the game loads fine. However, when I add the station parts, it crashes right after it finishes loading. I cannot find any errors in the log.

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sumghai

sumghai

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Does anyone know if this mod is working on 0.24.2? I've downloaded and installed the dependent mods and the game loads fine. However, when I add the station parts, it crashes right after it finishes loading. I cannot find any errors in the log.

I cannot say for certain, since I've been quite busy in the past few weeks dealing with SDHI and 0.24.x - do bear in mind that the current version (X0.04-4) was originally made for 0.23.5, and since I'm actively working on the full R0.04 release in the meantime, it does not make any sense for me to divert time to retroactively ensure X0.04-4 is 100% compatible with 0.24.x.

Another possibility is that you're actually running out of memory. The 32-bit version of KSP can only use 3.5 GB out of whatever available RAM you have on your system (the 64-bit version of KSP can use far more), and what often happens is that because FusTek is usually one of the last add-ons users download, it is often enough to push your game right over the RAM limit; essentially, the "last straw that broke the camel's back". I can only offer you the following suggestions if this is the case:

- Active Texture Management will compress most textures and save lots of RAM

- Delete add-ons you know you won't use anymore

- Forcing KSP to run on OpenGL rather than Direct3D will also save lots of RAM

- Try the 64-bit build of KSP (use at own risk, as it is highly experimental)

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Raptor831

Raptor831

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..snip..

It seems like I'm supposed to specify quantities using the "stored" values, although in order for consumption to be correct, some sort of utilization value from the spreadsheet must also be used.

I'm pretty sure that you specify the amounts in plain liters. Don't worry about the stored. That only really matters if you're trying to figure out how many liters of O2 at 200 atm can I put into a part that has X m^3. If you want 10 days of resources, use the L/day amount * 10. You'll end up with a bunch of O2/CO2 compared to the rest, which is intended.

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BLUAV8R

BLUAV8R

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Hey, slippy frog, are we gonna see an update to the KSO retexture for FusTek?

Just saw your comment lol probably not, it was just something i threw together in 2 days when i was bored :) if anyone wants to take it over then go ahead and do it :D i dont have any source files unfortunately so what is included is all that exists lol (that and my own individual release, click my signature). I'd like frencrs to take it over because he can also include his one and as far as i've seen he has the photoshop skills to do it :D

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sharpspoonful

sharpspoonful

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It's the structural parts from the Infernal Robotics Remodel pack.

I wouldn't recommend going that route. Unless you are going to run in x64, your part count will jump fast. As you can see in that album, there was a lot of shimming I had to do. A smallish station with 13 modules, including a cupola, docking port, solar panels and what not, made for a 330-part station.

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mecki

mecki

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It's the structural parts from the Infernal Robotics Remodel pack.

Thank you!

I wouldn't recommend going that route. Unless you are going to run in x64, your part count will jump fast. As you can see in that album, there was a lot of shimming I had to do. A smallish station with 13 modules, including a cupola, docking port, solar panels and what not, made for a 330-part station.

That seems like a wise advice – I think I won't use them.

But I'm having a problem with this mod: When I add it to my GameData folder my game won't load! No usable entries in the logs. Are there any known conflicts with other mods?

I only have the Firespitter.dll installed (which seems to be sufficient for other mods).

But I just realized that I don't have Modular Fuel Tanks installed since the most recent version seems to causing lots of problems. Could this be the cause?

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Starwaster

Starwaster

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Thank you!

That seems like a wise advice – I think I won't use them.

But I'm having a problem with this mod: When I add it to my GameData folder my game won't load! No usable entries in the logs. Are there any known conflicts with other mods?

I only have the Firespitter.dll installed (which seems to be sufficient for other mods).

But I just realized that I don't have Modular Fuel Tanks installed since the most recent version seems to causing lots of problems. Could this be the cause?

Modular Fuel Tanks / Real Fuels are optional. You should also let others decide if your logs are useful or not. That said, it's probably a low memory issue. Try the Active Texture manager mod: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/59005-0-24-Release-3-3-1-Active-Texture-Management-Save-RAM-without-reduction-packs%21

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mecki

mecki

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Modular Fuel Tanks / Real Fuels are optional. You should also let others decide if your logs are useful or not. That said, it's probably a low memory issue. Try the Active Texture manager mod: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/59005-0-24-Release-3-3-1-Active-Texture-Management-Save-RAM-without-reduction-packs%21

Thank you for your reply!

I already have ATM installed though

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sumghai

sumghai

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Can we use Crew manifest instead?
Shouldn't be a problem with that.
That's what I use, and no issues.
It just wont utilize the CLS plugin, as it is not hooked into the plugins' crew passage limitations the last I checked.

Correct on all counts.

Once R0.04a comes out, I'll re-clarify the OP so that Ship Manifest / CLS are supported but not mandatory (just like how I've written it in the SDHI SMS release thread).

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sumghai

sumghai

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Is there a patch for TAC Life Support pre-release 9 ?
@MegaUZI, I'm not sure but I think you have to wait for R0.04a though...

I've just put that patch together last weekend - you can get it here:

https://raw.githubusercontent.com/sumghai/FusTek_StationParts/master/GameData/FusTek/Station%20Parts/Parts/MM_configs/FusTek_MMPatch_TACLifeSupport_ModularFuelTanks.cfg

Just a heads-up that while X0.04-4 DEV BUILD was originally published for KSP 0.23.5, as long as you keep all dependencies up-to-date, the pack should still work properly in 0.24.x.

I'm not pushing any more dev builds / pre-releases, as I'd like to focus on working on a full, stable release for R0.04a. You can, however, still get weekly WIPs from GitHub.

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