[0.90] Magic Smoke Industries Infernal Robotics - 0.19.3

[m4inbrain]

I paid for something else. You better not be messing up that.

You didn't pay for anything. If you use a free mod to modify something that you paid for, it's on you, not on the programmers.

It's hard to keep up with the thread and updates of sirkut because it get's cluttered the last couple of pages for a non-issue.

[BudgetHedgehog]

I can open the internet but you want me to make sure its working correctly too.

Well, yes. Is it so hard?

Shouldn't you make sure your section works right.

But it does work right. Providing you actually use a bit of common sense about installing game-changing files, it works perfectly fine (EDIT: I would say something along the lines of 'I bet you own an Apple product' right now, and in fact I will - I bet you own an Apple product.)

You don't see the auto salesperson swapping out parts that you don't know about. They will let you know that you do need a part swapped out in order to keep running the car safely.

Thats all they do. Tell you about it and point you to an authorized repair shop. There not going to drive your car down to the shop for you.

I don't see the relevance here - sirkut hasn't bundled anything without you seeing it, it's all in the open for you to look at (which you should in any case. Game changing files and all that..). Not to mention that you've kind of contradicted your own point here - if a part in your car needed changing to make it run, that's be the equivalent of telling people in the OP that they need Toolbar, right? Well, sirkut has gone above and beyond that and actually driven you to the repair shop and got you the part you need. Granted, it's not the most recent part, but it's the part you need. It's not his fault that if you go elsewhere, other people might drive you to a different shop and give you a different part. You're more than welcome to decline his offer of the drive and the part with a 'no thanks, I'll get it myself to ensure I get the right one'.

Having worked in the customer industry for too long, I guarantee you that even if you tell people 'you need this part and you can get it here', you will always get someone who comes back to you the next day without doing so and they'll be complaining that it doesn't work. Either they didn't listen, didn't hear or just plain ignored it (i.e. "I don't want ANOTHER mod, my game is full already"), but the point is bundling the toolbar with this mod because it has a hard dependency on it is entirely the correct thing to do. End users should always ALWAYS double check contents before installing because the author has done the best they can already (see anything I've already written if you disagree with this, to wit: adding in most recent toolbar/editing OP).

I've said all I can say on this now. It's clear you don't care to check zip contents before copying across (why on earth would you not?!) so I don't think I can convince you to. I'm done.

I'm gonna go ahead and carry on playing around with IR now. I can, because I installed it using a gram of common sense.

Edited April 21, 2014 by ObsessedWithKSP

[Sethnizzle]

I can open the internet but you want me to make sure its working correctly too. What kind of world is this. I thought this was the world where I pay or support something. It better work.

I paid for something else. You better not be messing up that.

You programed it. You want me to get it. Support your product. Shouldn't you make sure your section works right.

You don't see the auto salesperson swapping out parts that you don't know about. They will let you know that you do need a part swapped out in order to keep running the car safely.

Thats all they do. Tell you about it and point you to an authorized repair shop. There not going to drive your car down to the shop for you.

Not picking on sirkut directly. Your not the only doing it.

Also I'm not the only one stating this. I've seen someone else mention it.

Whew... Throwing around a lot of analogies that don't really make sense, don't-cha think?

This is a free MODIFICATION, not some software you are buying from your local Best Buy. Because it is a mod, I agree with ObsessedWithKSP, the end user is expected to have much more knowledge and be more computer literate than what it takes to just use an installation wizard from a professionally developed program.

[sirkut]

Once my DSL behaves I'm going to sync a new ZIP for everyone to test.

[m4inbrain]

Much appreciated.

Do you have a "changelog" that you'd share?

[BigD145]

I can open the internet but you want me to make sure its working correctly too. What kind of world is this. I thought this was the world where I pay or support something. It better work.

I paid for something else. You better not be messing up that.

You programed it. You want me to get it. Support your product. Shouldn't you make sure your section works right.

You get what you pay for. In this case, you get far more than you pay for.

THANKS SIRKUT!

Thank you so much for a very interesting mod. Thank you other modders as well. Bravo.

[katateochi]

Hi Sirkut, just had a chance to test drive the latest version (v0.14a). Generally seems much more stable, but I'm still having some issues with reloading saves.

On the ground my little construction rover works fine, its arm carries on just fine after a reload. It also docks to other objects fine too (actually there was 1 issue, but it was caused by another mod, see later).

It's arm is fairly simple, just 2 hinges, 1 rotator and the large piston set. It does also have a KAS winch and a docking port on its end but that doesn't cause any issues.

In orbit my shuttle (called SirkutBreaker!) has reported some issues with reloading. It's arm is more complex with 3 hinges, 2 rotators and both hydraulic cylinders and pistons. This is the same arm as I used in the previous report I posted and the issue with the first hinge being messed up when attached to a small cubic strut has been cured, nice 1!!

The problem now seems to be with the hydraulic cylinders when they are saved in a extended position and then reloaded. I tested just the arm in a stock install and I get the same issue.

After reloading the arm looks like this;

But it is only the visual aspect that is wrong. The arm actually carries on working like it should, it just looks daft!

Here is a sub-assembly of the orbiters arm

(i&k, j&l and b&n control the hinges, 7&8 extends the main section, ;&' extends the shorter section, 5&6 and -&= control the rotators) - you just need 7&8 to do this test.

error involving another mod (just reporting this as it was odd/interesting) I was having some issues in the mod install when docking to payload with the construction rover. After removing mods one by one it turned out it was the presence of two NovaPunch SRB's (the weeny ickle ones) that I'd put on the test object that I was trying to pick up. I'd just slapped them on to add weight, but it turns out with them present after docking the pistons movement was restricted and the hinges moved but didn't move the things connected to them. Weird.

There doesn't seem to be any problems caused by having KAS present as part of the lifting arm which is great, I figured if any other mod was going to cause problems it would be KAS, but that combo seems to work fine.

Things are definitely improving! Keep up the great work (both of you!)

[sirkut]

katateochi. The translations on the pistons is certainly an issue. I got a new pull request from omgnull that may or may not resolve that. I'm just waiting for the new parts zip to finish uploading. I'm going to test out the subassembly you sent me.

Edit: using your subassembly. I was able to fully extend the arm and rotate it. Save the game, went back to it and it was all correct. Now I'm just syncing up the parts on github. I need you guys to give it a try when its done.

Edited April 22, 2014 by sirkut

[katateochi]

katateochi. The translations on the pistons is certainly an issue. I got a new pull request from omgnull that may or may not resolve that. I'm just waiting for the new parts zip to finish uploading. I'm going to test out the subassembly you sent me.

Edit: using your subassembly. I was able to fully extend the arm and rotate it. Save the game, went back to it and it was all correct. Now I'm just syncing up the parts on github. I need you guys to give it a try when its done.

awesome sauce! Will that be up shortly? I was about to go to bed, but a new update is worth loosing some sleep over!

[sirkut]

Ok try downloading that one and give it a whirl. katateochi retest it for yourself..

[sirkut]

Yup. I was able to use your subassembly. Move it all crazily. Exited the game. Reloaded the game and the craft & robot arm were all where they should be! Moar testing!

[katateochi]

Amazing!! It's working!! no issues using that arm setup. tested in both stock and mod installs. What's even more awesome was I loaded up a save from before where the arm was messed up and now it is as it should be.

I think you've cracked it! With the test craft that I've got I'm not seeing any issues now (I've not got craft that use the large rotators or gantries, I'll have a look at those tomorrow).

[sirkut]

Amazing!! It's working!! no issues using that arm setup. tested in both stock and mod installs. What's even more awesome was I loaded up a save from before where the arm was messed up and now it is as it should be.

I think you've cracked it! With the test craft that I've got I'm not seeing any issues now (I've not got craft that use the large rotators or gantries, I'll have a look at those tomorrow).

Perfect news. The worst part about this last bug was I KNEW what was going on I just didn't know how to go about fixing it and once again omgnull works his magic. I thought I would have this pinned but I will admit it's certainly a humbling experience. Also, try out the toolbar. I tested it and it works both in the VAB and in flight.

[katateochi]

I program too, totally different stuff, but I understand what you mean about knowing the issue but not knowing the cure, maddening!! I'm guessing the documentation for KSP's API is poor at best too, that must make things much harder.

I just tried the tool bar. It works in the SPH and toggles the control window, but doesn't seem to work in flight mode. I'm using the latest version of the toolbar (1.7.1) downloaded separately. Do I need to wipe the settings.dat file?

btw, could I request you put a txt file in your zip with the your current version, just would help me not get muddled when testing!

[sirkut]

Once I get a few more testers satisfied I'll release it and embed a textfile indicating version.

When using flight mode, what are your criteria? When I was on the launchpad I was able to toggle the window from the toolbar.

[katateochi]

I tried deleting the tool bar settings file, didn't change it thou. I just launched a craft (configured tool bar to show IR) and clicked the icon. nothing happens. but it does work in the editors.

I tried completely removing the toolbar and reinstalling the one from your zip but still doesn't work.

EDIT

Oh wait. it works on the launch pad, not on the runway!

And a if I hyper-edit a craft from the launch pad into orbit it carries on working. From the runway to orbit still doesn't work.

Edited April 22, 2014 by katateochi

[sirkut]

Runway! Thank you! That's exactly what I needed.

[katateochi]

That's so weird, just goes to show how querky code can be!!

[gmeine921]

random quirk, if you place a strut on say a part of a rocket and the other part on say a satellite and the strut places itself on a hinge, an attached piston will start rotating. Mods: kw,b9, rt2, Kerbin Shuttle Orbiter System, rcs sounds (although i doubt that makes a difference). remove fairing before launch and press y. after laughing and reverting to the VAB, remove the struts on the satellite and repeat holding y on the launch pad. if this isnt a new issue, i must have missed it, else it gave me a good laugh

anywho, thank you for the quick update. great mod. thank you for the great work

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gubki215s62bxs4/CS%20-%20001.craft

[Legola]

There's a correction I forgot to mention. Rotational parts that have a connection node work during a saved game. It's surface attachable parts that are still having an issue. still test away!

As of the "b" version of the mod, the issues shown in my video are gone!

Everything works as expected.

Will continue to keep an eye out for more misbehavior.

[sirkut]

random quirk, if you place a strut on say a part of a rocket and the other part on say a satellite and the strut places itself on a hinge, an attached piston will start rotating. Mods: kw,b9, rt2, Kerbin Shuttle Orbiter System, rcs sounds (although i doubt that makes a difference). remove fairing before launch and press y. after laughing and reverting to the VAB, remove the struts on the satellite and repeat holding y on the launch pad. if this isnt a new issue, i must have missed it, else it gave me a good laugh

anywho, thank you for the quick update. great mod. thank you for the great work

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gubki215s62bxs4/CS%20-%20001.craft

I will check that in the morning.

- - - Updated - - -

As of the "b" version of the mod, the issues shown in my video are gone!

Everything works as expected.

Will continue to keep an eye out for more misbehavior.

Great news! This is what I want to hear. I do know the toolbar bug is really annoying. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.t

[Undeadbanana]

Dang Sirkut, you're on a roll. Haven't gotten to use this mod yet but it has piqued my interest, so I subscribed for updates. For awesome seeing how dedicated you are to the mod.

I found it a little humorous when you were struggling with a few things and out of nowhere, omgnull just pops up with his super fix. It's almost like he created the account just to help fix IR.

Anyways, thanks for all the work you've put in. And thank you omgnull for helping out.

[Atrius129]

In orbit my shuttle (called SirkutBreaker!)

That made me laugh so hard!

I know that the docking issue has been mentioned before but I just wanted to document it now.

Here is a mockup of my fuel rover using stock parts instead of interstellar parts. Sorry, I don't really have the HD space for a 4th clean install of this game (should probably just remove the others).

IR stuff works perfectly at first. Pistons move in and out together. Hinges move in unison.

Docking successful!

When I undock but the piston is locked. It moves a little bit but doesn't telescope properly. Sometimes some of the piston stages lock while others retract. This also breaks the two hinges, (the shoulder and the wrist). They no longer operate at full speed or in unison. The shoulder hinge also seems to be turned nearly 90 deg, and the claw doesn't stay centered on the wrist hinge.

Still, great job on the new release guys. Your work is greatly appreciated.

Craft file: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2K2XVlOvk62TEFrQjV2SEZicUU/edit?usp=sharing

To recreate the issue just load two of ^^those^^ and stab one with the pointy end of the other.

Edited April 22, 2014 by Atrius129

[MonkeyLunch]

Does this mod still need the old "infernal robotics" also installed, for it to work? Or is it autonomous now? Last time I tried this, we had to use both together. It said so on the front page before, now it doesn't, so that's why im asking.

PS: Thanks for all the effort keeping this going, its an incredible addition to the game and community. Much appreciated.

[MK3424]

Does this mod still need the old "infernal robotics" also installed, for it to work? Or is it autonomous now? Last time I tried this, we had to use both together. It said so on the front page before, now it doesn't, so that's why im asking.

PS: Thanks for all the effort keeping this going, its an incredible addition to the game and community. Much appreciated.

The old one doesn't have to be installed.