[0.22] UbioZur Welding Ltd. 2.0 Dev STOPPED

[UbioZur]

By welding parts together you shortcut these calculations by having a single physics-enabled object with one large rigid collision mesh. Truthfully, I don't quite understand why this is not being done by KSP already. Ships should not sway and oscillate all over the place like they do now, If objects were to be made rigid and only breaking forces were to be calculated it would not only make the game most aesthetically pleasing, it would also make struts obsolete and improve performance dramatically. Of course, you won't be able to make a giant snake anymore by linking 100 inline battery banks.

This "flexibility" in the assembly is wanted by Squad, and it's what make this game KSP. I do not think they will work on performance with reducing part count.

Here's something I'm working on for my next space station. The cupola and engines are attached for a test flight, but those attach nodes will eventually be used for docking pylons, infrastructure, etc. The whole disk section is one part, thanks to UbioZur Welded Parts mod. But I've kept the original unwelded assembly, so as to continue editing. It weighs 280 tons, but it does fly. I hope to add a wing module to it, so that it can launch like a space plane. If you look closely in the background, you can see an earlier prototype where it came to rest on the wind tunnel.

Now that is HUGE and SICK man! Can't wait to see the final station in space

[Kaiz0r]

Hello UbioZur,

First of all, this is an awesome mod, this is an awesome job, awesome that you managed to get the ingame plugin working! (last time I checked this topic was when you were doing requests and thinking about a possible plugin)

I had to make a substitute for the mainsail (not available in career for the most part / weird game bugs when using mainsails), so I made this simple, and ugly, looking cluster tank. Without your welding plugin it is a 21 part thing without the support struts to keep it rigid. Now it is one single solid part! When making an asparagus launcher I have 7 or 9 of these, so that is a 140 to 180 part count decrease for the LV with only this simple thing!!!

But my main reason for this post is to add my voice to the group that has problems with the radial attachment welding. Last two weeks I've been reading the entire topic from beginning to the end to make sure I didn't miss a bug / bugfix / solution.

As you can see I have the struts on the side, and when I don't do anything with the part.cfg I can't attach the it. When opening the .cfg file I don't have a long list of attach nodes, just the ones from the parts that are on it.

I tried placing this part as the first part and add stuff later, that worked fine, but when placing the outer ones for the asparagus stage, they would not connect.

You can place this part radial on other parts (useless, but fun!)

Now one of the solutions offered is to delete / disable the nodes that are not used. By doing that the part indeed did work!

The file has all original nodes are there, disabled the nodes on the girders that are on the "inside" (connected to the other girder or tank). Also renamed it so I don't forget what it is in dropbox. I changed it's location in the techtree.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6hn03hwjwsg10t0/12cl1gr.cfg

I hope you can find a solution for this node problem, but still, this mod is already one of the best I'm using. And a must for people with a low-end PC (like me)

Keep up the good work!

[egreSS]

• Don't use Merged RCS for rotation, the game doesn't allow it.

What about independant local clusters of RCS ?

e.g.

1.) Welded 8x unidirectional cluster on undercarriage-center(CoM) for XLATE up

2a.) Welded 4x unidirectional cluster on undercarriage-aft ROT down(pitch down)

2b.) Welded 4x unidirectional cluster on top-forward ROT down(pitch down)

etc, etc.

[UbioZur]

I hope you can find a solution for this node problem, but still, this mod is already one of the best I'm using. And a must for people with a low-end PC (like me)

I do hope I will too , I am glad you have managed to make it work so

• Don't use Merged RCS for rotation, the game doesn't allow it.

What about independant local clusters of RCS ?

e.g.

1.) Welded 8x unidirectional cluster on undercarriage-center(CoM) for XLATE up

2a.) Welded 4x unidirectional cluster on undercarriage-aft ROT down(pitch down)

2b.) Welded 4x unidirectional cluster on top-forward ROT down(pitch down)

etc, etc.

That should work, by not using it for rotation I mean mainly if they become part of the same part, it will not work. But as separate part, It will work just like normal RCS.

[CodatheSpaceFox]

I hate to sound like an idiot with a question probably answered a hundred times by now, but how does the welding tool treat docking ports? Could I include those in the welded object, or should I add those afterward?

I am asking in regards to a base I intend to construct in individual modules, I'm not going to worry about welding everything together, mostly just structural sections for now, but I am not sure if docking ports could be included in the weld to help drop the stress on this terrible little laptop I rely on.

[UbioZur]

I hate to sound like an idiot with a question probably answered a hundred times by now, but how does the welding tool treat docking ports? Could I include those in the welded object, or should I add those afterward?

I am asking in regards to a base I intend to construct in individual modules, I'm not going to worry about welding everything together, mostly just structural sections for now, but I am not sure if docking ports could be included in the weld to help drop the stress on this terrible little laptop I rely on.

Docking ports are a bit dodgy to weld several of them. it doesn't always know if it's docked or not... I would keep them separated for now.

[Zephram Kerman]

...I hope to add a wing module to it, so that it can launch like a space plane...

I'm having a hard time with this. Just simply copying the two bits of code from the deltaWing part.cfg wasn't enough. There are some factors I hadn't considered until getting into it. Here's what I borrowed:

// --- winglet parameters ---
// dragCoeff will override the maximum_drag value
dragCoeff = 0.6
deflectionLiftCoeff = 1.9

But there is nothing to establish the orientation of lift and drag forces. Also I don't have any idea what values would be reasonable for such a large lifting area. Anyway, once added to my part.cfg, there was apparently no effect at all. The CoL marker did not even appear until I added other aero parts.

Has anyone else ever attempted to give wing attributes to a part? Any suggestions?

[M3Man03]

Why is it whenever I get a part to actually weld (I get a lot of errors probably due to modded parts) - it deletes almost all of my parts and does what appears to be a reload - although it never works. I have to quit out of the game and go back into it each and every time.

[Zephram Kerman]

Has anyone else ever attempted to give wing attributes to a part? Any suggestions?

Numerobis reminded me about the module = winglet line up near the top. That kinda makes a big difference!

The thing still crashed all over the place though. It seems to be the large part wobblies problem that plagues all my maniacal creations. If I do 'hack gravity', it does sortof fly around. But it was hard to control, can't get enough lift even in low gravity, and parts kept sliding off. I think maybe a smaller station disk might be in order.

[Galane]

Here's something I'm working on for my next space station. The cupola and engines are attached for a test flight, but those attach nodes will eventually be used for docking pylons, infrastructure, etc. The whole disk section is one part, thanks to UbioZur Welded Parts mod. But I've kept the original unwelded assembly, so as to continue editing. It weighs 280 tons, but it does fly. I hope to add a wing module to it, so that it can launch like a space plane. If you look closely in the background, you can see an earlier prototype where it came to rest on the wind tunnel.

You meant that's not a Ferris Wheel that failed? From this angle the R&D center looks like an amusement park... Ah ha!That's what's needed in the game, an amusement park where all the rides are rocket powered!

[Psycix]

Perhaps it's a good idea to make a compatibility chart or list of do's and don'ts , as to avoid repeated questions an bug reports.

[Zephram Kerman]

You meant that's not a Ferris Wheel that failed? From this angle the R&D center looks like an amusement park... Ah ha!That's what's needed in the game, an amusement park where all the rides are rocket powered!

Waves magic wand... Peter Tyson has made an amazing theme park, just for you!

Disclaimer: some rides are not rocket-powered, but most are, and they all explode.

Sorry for the off-topic, but I think everyone will appreciate it just this once.

[UbioZur]

I'm having a hard time with this. Just simply copying the two bits of code from the deltaWing part.cfg wasn't enough. There are some factors I hadn't considered until getting into it. Here's what I borrowed:

// --- winglet parameters ---
// dragCoeff will override the maximum_drag value
dragCoeff = 0.6
deflectionLiftCoeff = 1.9

But there is nothing to establish the orientation of lift and drag forces. Also I don't have any idea what values would be reasonable for such a large lifting area. Anyway, once added to my part.cfg, there was apparently no effect at all. The CoL marker did not even appear until I added other aero parts.

Has anyone else ever attempted to give wing attributes to a part? Any suggestions?

Numerobis reminded me about the module = winglet line up near the top. That kinda makes a big difference!

The thing still crashed all over the place though. It seems to be the large part wobblies problem that plagues all my maniacal creations. If I do 'hack gravity', it does sortof fly around. But it was hard to control, can't get enough lift even in low gravity, and parts kept sliding off. I think maybe a smaller station disk might be in order.

Yargnit have welded wings and told me how to do it, but it's that winglet thing that is a pain, to get. also you need to make sure the center of the model is also the center of the lift.

Why is it whenever I get a part to actually weld (I get a lot of errors probably due to modded parts) - it deletes almost all of my parts and does what appears to be a reload - although it never works. I have to quit out of the game and go back into it each and every time.

For the 'errors' check the log, it may tell you what it is, certainly due to welding unsupported parts, and several of the same MODULE that the game does not managed.

Yes the sub assembly you have dragged is deleted. and the database is reloaded (you can change the database reload in the config file). If when you reload the game you see it, it mean it worked, sometime you have to change the part list to have the new part displayed, because the game is not make to reload the database while in the editor.

Sorry for the off-topic, but I think everyone will appreciate it just this once.

As long as it's a topic here and there and not a full discussion I am fine with it

[BelgarionNL]

got another good one for ya: when I try to weld anything that has a part in it from the interstellar mod it says something like: [exception]: Directorynotfoundexception...... then it wants to go to KSP folder and then KSP_DATA but I don't have that folder...

the interstellar mod works fine here!

so whats causing this problem?

Edited December 5, 2013 by BelgarionNL

[UbioZur]

got another good one for ya: when I try to weld anything that has a part in it from the interstellar mod it says something like: [exception]: Directorynotfoundexception...... then it wants to go to KSP folder and then KSP_DATA but I don't have that folder...

the interstellar mod works fine here!

so whats causing this problem?

I had that reported already, It come from the fact that the mesh = something.mu in the config file, link a an actual mesh file that does not exist. And the way I am trying to get the folder is not a good way (and doesn't work on linux)

[BelgarionNL]

so is this something you can fix in the foreseeable future?

anyway otherwise I really like the mod! its great!

[Madeiner]

Hi

I find this the MOST USEFUL mod on KSP and i just registered to the forum to report some bugs, since i have played with it quite a while and i think i managed to solve (or discover the cause) of some bugs

- part.cfg and model.mu -

I thought that the file names and model name HAD to be exactly those two for each part. However, due to following bugs, i'm not so sure of it anymore.

- Part name is CRUCIAL -

I had this part

// --- general parameters ---

name = Kosmos_Salyut_1.5-1_Taper

When i tried to weld it, the log said said that it couldnt find the directory for the file name = Kosmos_Salyut_1_5-1_Taper

Note that the message indicated a different file name. In the log, it said "1_5" instead of "1.5", which was the correct file name.

When i renamed the file to REMOVE the dot and instead use another underscore, the item welded succesfully.

- Nodes not attaching and why -

Sometimes (but not everytime) the welded part will not attach to existing part on most of its nodes.

In fact, only ONE node will actually attach to an existing part.

The node that WILL ALWAYS attach is the LAST NODE in the part.cfg of the welded part.

As a temporary solution, when my parts dont attach, i move the node that i want to attach so that it is the LAST node specified in the CFG and the parts succesfully attaches.

Note that this has nothing to do about parts that attach TO the welded part after it is a "solid" shape.

- Radial Part rotation -

It seems that parts that are attached radially will not correctly attach if they are moved from their initial position as they appear when first put into VAB.

Im not sure of this, it requires more tests.

I will continue testing, since i find this mode absolutely necessary to play like i want to.

I just built this station and it is only 19 parts (just because i decided i didn't want to weld the karmony parts -- but it CAN be done with more cfg editing.)

I hope these bug reports have been useful and you can improve on this awesome job!

[JordanL]

Ubio: I know you don't support other mods, and I completely agree with why. This mod is for welding, making the welding work should be priority one through three. However, many of these plugins seem compatible, they are just slightly off in their config files or in their file structures from what the welder can handle. Since all configs and directories are easily editable by anyone here, I was wondering if you could shed some light on what exactly the "missing config file" error means. Specifically I am trying to make the FusTek K1 Truss work with Welder, and it complains about a missing config file.

I have been loading up all kinds of things that I can think of... changing file names, directory structures, editing the config for the part to make sure it has everything right, changing it anyway... I kind of feel like I could solve this sort of thing on my own if I only knew more about the error itself.

EDIT:

Wait, Ubio, does the config file or the part directory need to exactly match the name of the part in the config file?

Edited December 6, 2013 by JordanL

[UbioZur]

so is this something you can fix in the foreseeable future?

anyway otherwise I really like the mod! its great!

I managed to get a hardcode fix for the .22 stock parts. I would hope to get some better consistency.

It can also happen with some bug in my code about getting the path. (I have some bugs about that)

- part.cfg and model.mu -

I thought that the file names and model name HAD to be exactly those two for each part. However, due to following bugs, i'm not so sure of it anymore.

First off thanks for all the feedback

You do not need to have the cfg called part.cfg (I think this bring a bug in the game), nor model.mu. In fact for the game you don't really need a mesh = model.mu, since the game will default to find a .mu in the .cfg folder, which bugged me a lot

- Part name is CRUCIAL -

I had this part

// --- general parameters ---

name = Kosmos_Salyut_1.5-1_Taper

When i tried to weld it, the log said said that it couldnt find the directory for the file name = Kosmos_Salyut_1_5-1_Taper

Note that the message indicated a different file name. In the log, it said "1_5" instead of "1.5", which was the correct file name.

When i renamed the file to REMOVE the dot and instead use another underscore, the item welded succesfully.

This is due to the fact that in game fueltank.long is changed to fueltank_long.

so I thought the game was changing all strange character with _.....

Apparently not! it change it only for some parts...

- Nodes not attaching and why -

Sometimes (but not everytime) the welded part will not attach to existing part on most of its nodes.

In fact, only ONE node will actually attach to an existing part.

The node that WILL ALWAYS attach is the LAST NODE in the part.cfg of the welded part.

As a temporary solution, when my parts dont attach, i move the node that i want to attach so that it is the LAST node specified in the CFG and the parts succesfully attaches.

Note that this has nothing to do about parts that attach TO the welded part after it is a "solid" shape.

Hum I can attach to all the nodes, but there is a bug if some parts are radially attached, some the node are hidden in the model and block any attachement. I am still trying to figure a way to fix it!

- Radial Part rotation -

It seems that parts that are attached radially will not correctly attach if they are moved from their initial position as they appear when first put into VAB.

Im not sure of this, it requires more tests.

ok will get some testing done too about that. keep me updated on it please.

I will continue testing, since i find this mode absolutely necessary to play like i want to.

I just built this station and it is only 19 parts (just because i decided i didn't want to weld the karmony parts -- but it CAN be done with more cfg editing.)

I hope these bug reports have been useful and you can improve on this awesome job!

Bug reports are always a good things, i actually can't wait to get some time to work on the mod again.

I like that design

Ubio: I know you don't support other mods, and I completely agree with why. This mod is for welding, making the welding work should be priority one through three. However, many of these plugins seem compatible, they are just slightly off in their config files or in their file structures from what the welder can handle.

It is mainly to avoid spending too much time on making specific fixes for them. I will try to support some specific mods (I would love to support part catalog, since it will help a tons). But I still like to have the bug reports since it also can bring some light into my code. Mainly about all those paths/model/config stuff.

Since all configs and directories are easily editable by anyone here, I was wondering if you could shed some light on what exactly the "missing config file" error means. Specifically I am trying to make the FusTek K1 Truss work with Welder, and it complains about a missing config file.

I have been loading up all kinds of things that I can think of... changing file names, directory structures, editing the config for the part to make sure it has everything right, changing it anyway... I kind of feel like I could solve this sort of thing on my own if I only knew more about the error itself.

As answered to Madeiner, this is due to the fact that the game like to make me hard code things (I am a bit missed off right now about that!), so some stock part that have a . in their name are changed to _, BUT not for the other parts.

Wait, Ubio, does the config file or the part directory need to exactly match the name of the part in the config file?

no it doesn't have to (normally)

Edited December 6, 2013 by UbioZur

[JordanL]

Hmmm, the TAL trusses don't seem to work either. Get a Missing Config File error. "MISSING config file TAL_Cubic_Truss_1m", but the file ModsByTal/Parts\Structural\Cubic_Truss\Standard\TAL_Cubic_Truss_1m.cfg is there.

It has a MODEL section in the PART definition as well:

// --- general parameters ---

name = TAL.Cubic.Truss.1m
module = Part
author = Talisar

// --- asset parameters ---

MODEL
{
model = ModsByTal/Parts/Structural/Cubic_Truss/Models/TAL_Cubic_Truss_1m
scale = 0.8, 0.8, 0.8
}

[UbioZur]

Hmmm, the TAL trusses don't seem to work either. Get a Missing Config File error. "MISSING config file TAL_Cubic_Truss_1m", but the file ModsByTal/Parts\Structural\Cubic_Truss\Standard\TAL_Cubic_Truss_1m.cfg is there.

It has a MODEL section in the PART definition as well:

This is due to the . inside the name,

I have fixed it, I am working on those directory and config file issue at the moment. Also on the fact that if the config file is not named part.cfg there is a bug too.

Should get the update by this evening tomorow.

[JordanL]

This is due to the . inside the name,

I have fixed it, I am working on those directory and config file issue at the moment. Also on the fact that if the config file is not named part.cfg there is a bug too.

Should get the update by this evening tomorow.

Oh wow, awesome.

I've been trying to rename files without breaking other plugins to make it work with the welder, but if you've already patched this and it'll be out soon I won't bother.

Trying to weld a 260 part interplanetary tug core.

[UbioZur]

Oh wow, awesome.

I've been trying to rename files without breaking other plugins to make it work with the welder, but if you've already patched this and it'll be out soon I won't bother.

Trying to weld a 260 part interplanetary tug core.

It does work I have tried with the Fustech and interplanetary mod.

Can someone using Linux can tell me if the welded part is saved inside the good folder now and not inside the desktop?

here is a test version (this version also have the fixed above if you want to have a more testing)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bwou6bewBq0uWVFiRHpucFlrZEk/edit?usp=sharing

- Nodes not attaching and why -

Sometimes (but not everytime) the welded part will not attach to existing part on most of its nodes.

In fact, only ONE node will actually attach to an existing part.

The node that WILL ALWAYS attach is the LAST NODE in the part.cfg of the welded part.

As a temporary solution, when my parts dont attach, i move the node that i want to attach so that it is the LAST node specified in the CFG and the parts succesfully attaches.

Note that this has nothing to do about parts that attach TO the welded part after it is a "solid" shape.

- Radial Part rotation -

It seems that parts that are attached radially will not correctly attach if they are moved from their initial position as they appear when first put into VAB.

Im not sure of this, it requires more tests.

So I have done some test and found out why, this is actually the same bug, and sadly not from me (so I can't fix it).

after messing around for a while, I decided to try playing with the station hub stock part, since it has several nodes and sideway nodes.

You can stack your part to another part ONLY on the last set of node that have the same orientation.

So if you can't stack you welded part to a part, make sure you move the node you want to attach to the bottom of the node list.

I have reported the bug to Squad to see if they can do something about it (it will fix the station hub and the mini node and may be futur parts)

[JordanL]

The dev-fix you posted does indeed fix the issues I was seeing with TAL Trusses, but NovaPunch stuff fails now with messages like: "MISSING config NP.lft.25m.15m"

Seems NovaPunch has the opposite problem?

EDIT:

Don't even know what to think of this. Loaded up my welded part and it sort of exploded.

Edited December 6, 2013 by JordanL

[UbioZur]

The dev-fix you posted does indeed fix the issues I was seeing with TAL Trusses, but NovaPunch stuff fails now with messages like: "MISSING config NP.lft.25m.15m"

Seems NovaPunch has the opposite problem?

I went a different way, hopefully this time it will work for all the cases. (same link)

Don't even know what to think of this. Loaded up my welded part and it sort of exploded.

Wow! are all the blanks, the tanks that it can't find the model?