Oldtimers - help me enjoy the game more!

[Jackissimus]

Hi everybody,

I bought KSP about a month ago and I've been messing around with it ever since. After a while I quicky realized I tend to build bigger and bigger rockets and bigger and bigger stations and I tend to do these monolithic missions supposed to prove something or plant a flag. I also sort of stopped really enjoying the little things in the game, like just landing on the moon manually, instead of MJ, or just getting a very small satellite to Laythe without aerocapture on Jool (which is basically a cheat, because aerocapture has never been done this way in real life). I also installed more and more mods to allow me to do more things, then I spend a lot of time getting around their bugs, exploiting bugs in the original game etc. I just stopped enjoying the game really.

So I decided to start anew, this time going slow and enjoying every milestone. I wrote some rules for my game and I want to stick to them. Can some of you longtime players tell me if they are gonna work or where I might run into problems? For the people that simply don't agree with my point of view about how to play this game, please keep it mind that it's just my opinion and this thread is not addressed to you. I am rather asking the oldtimers who have tried to play the game this way before.

----- 10 RULES FOR PLAYING KSP -----

by Jack

1) KEEP THINGS SMALL!

To play the game as the authors intended, no vessel is allowed to have more than 200 parts during launch. 100 parts is optimum. Also no station with multiple docked spacecraft can have more than 400 parts. Same goes for fully developed surface bases with adjacent lifters and rovers. Interplanetary spaceships fully assembled in orbit can still have only 200 parts. Try to use smaller craft and multiple ships with modular designs.

2) USE TWO ACCOUNTS!

One account is a sandbox for testing and development. You may use this account to test your reusable space program vehicles, general pilot training and for trying out new concepts in the game. The other account is the main account for the actual continuous game. You can do anything you want in the testing account, but once you are done, no transfer of save files or persistent files to the game account is allowed. You are allowed to move your ship designs freely, that's what the development account is for. In the game account, every launch is final, so prepare yourself well.

3) KEEP AUTOMATION TO A MINIMUM!

Never use Mechjeb's autopilots in your gaming account. You may use its statistical and info features. You can also use it to check what maneuvers it plots for a certain target and compare them with your own. Use it to learn from it, not play the game for you.

4) KEEP TIME WARP TO A MINIMUM!

The idea is to play the game continuously and not skip ahead. So use time warp with caution and only in small chunks if really necessary. No warping for planetary transfer windows. Use Kerbal Alarm Clock instead and put every coming transfer window to maximum use.

5) DON'T ABUSE THE SAVE FILE!

In your game account, the save files are sacred. They cannot be moved, copied or modified. Use your quicksave only when absolutely necessary, when you are very unsure of handling your next maneuver. Otherwise keep it to a minimum. Failure is part of the game.

6) NO WEIRD MULTIPLE DOCKING!

If you have to create a modular ship that multiple docks, use a design that doesn't force you to assess the alignment of your ports by eye. That means only simple symmetrical designs. It's the way the game was designed, trying to outsmart it will frustrate you and reduce your enjoyment of the game.

7) DON'T LEAVE DEBRIS IN ORBIT!

Try to design your spacecraft to not jettison stages in orbit. Detach your used parts to burn in atmosphere or crash into hard surface. Naturally, the ships that you intend to use in your reusable space program can't detach any parts at all outside Kerbin suborbit. For one-time spacecraft, you may leave stages behind sometimes, but keep in mind that it will clutter the orbit forever unless you clean it, which you have to do manually in-game.

8) DON'T "END FLIGHT"!

Not in your game account. You may never end unsuccessful flights, you have to learn to live with the sad result.

9) NO AEROCAPTURE!

To keep things realistic you may not use aerocapture maneuvers on large ships that would never survive aerocapture in real life. You can still do aerobraking iteratively to circularize an elliptical orbit, but don't use Mechjeb's aerobraking predictions in that case. In real life aerobraking is also very difficult to predict and has to be done mostly with trial and error. You may still do aerocapture and reentry with craft carrying a heatshild (basically only some of the pods and maybe some rovers analogous to Curiosity-Skycrane).

10) USE STOCK PARTS!

To enjoy the game in the way the authors intended, reduce the number of mods used. The allowed ones are Mechjeb for DeltaV stats and other info, Kerbal Alarm Clock to allow continuous gaming and planning of planetary transfers, Kethane because I am passionate about In-situ Resource Utilization and it's a nice motivation for building bases and orbital refueling stations, and MapSat as a motivation to build satellites and send rovers to artifacts.

Edited July 12, 2013 by Jackissimus
Edit: CODE doesn't do wordwrap?

[Gniuz]

I agree with some of your rules. If at the end of the day it helps with your enjoyment of KSP then go for it.

1 - I try to keep things as small as possible, no need for overkill rockets if you ask me.

2 - I have multiple versions of the game that I switch in and out of the steam folder. This way I can play stock, or stock with MJ or one with F.A.R. installed etc.

3 - I use it for learning if I can't do something manually as watching what it does can help you out. I also use it if I'm doing something else, that way I can do 2 things at once

4 - That's just harsh IMO but each to their own

5 - I never mod the save file, I use quick save and quick load a lot like.

6 - Not to sure what your on about with this one.

7 - Just turn debris off if you ask me.

8 - LOL its worse if you end flight by accident.

9 - never really make large ships tend to keep mine small....ish.

10 - I do like stock parts myself and have been using only stock recently, but sometimes other parts do come in handy.

G.

[Synapse]

I like and will actually take your rules on board! But I have no idea how not to implement number 7.

[joppiesaus]

--*Mechjeb war incoming*--

[Robbii6]

Thats actually a really good idea. i think once 0.21 is released i am going to follow these rules (well most of them) ,because i just don't do things the same as i used to and it is just stupid now. I have a tone of mods installed and to be honest i just dont enjoy it as much. I dont think ill follow the 'no orbital debris' though because even in real life there is a crap tone of debris and this is leading to such things a the Kessler Syndrome.

thanks mate

Edited July 12, 2013 by Robbii6

[Fr3Runn3r]

Love the idea, I've been thinking about doing something similar for ages but I've never really kept to the rules so I think I'm going to try it one last time using your rules. Maybe keep it so all parts have to remain intact (like parachutes on boosters) for proper launches

[sierra_seven_]

That looks good. I don't agree with the part limits on bases if you can get the parts there legitimately, but everything else looks awesome! I'll probably end up using these for my 0.21 save file, heh.

[Synapse]

Can someone explain how I bring my launch stages back into Kerbin? Also not using time warp a bit ridiculous, how long is my mission to Duna gonna take???

[Brabbit1987]

I am not an old timer, but I do like some of those rules. Though I will admit, I also think some of those rules are a bit ridiculous.

1. I agree, though only to a point where it makes sense. Anything in orbit can really be as large as you want it, as long as it was taken up in realistic sizes. I don't see why there has to be a limit for a space station. The only legit reason is for performance in my opinion.

2. I can most certainly agree to that.

3. Again, I can agree. I don't find anything wrong with using automation, but as a rule for yourself, it's certainly a nice challenge.

4. I do not agree with this one, it's a bit to harsh. This a game, not an actual space agency. First and for most, you should have fun. If that means using time warp, I suggest you do so. It's actually a fairly important mechanic for the game. It would not be there if it wasn't needed.

5. Agree, I myself would never modify my save files. I also try and keep quick saving to a minimum since I actually enjoy the failures.

6. Why? Also, saying it's the way the game was designed feels like an incorrect assumption. The design of the game is only limited to your creativity really. Using multiple docking ports is actually a great idea and would probably even work in real life. Don't see anything wrong with it.

7. Again, why? I say if you happen to mess up and Debris is left everywhere, just leave it. It seems less realistic to not have any debris at all when a mission fails. Of course if you build a mission to retrieve the debris, I find that fine. I actually keep my debris on infinite or max or whatever it is. I like to keep debris left alone.

8. Agreed, end flight should only be used when you land back on Kerbin.

9. Agreed

10. I actually do not agree with this. I don't mind mods that are within reason. My general rule on this is, if it fits within the game, it is fine. The reason I follow this rule is because the game is incomplete, meaning the parts are actually fairly limited as of right now. Chances are any part you use from a mod that fits within the game, is likely to eventually be added by squad anyway.

Well, that is my opinion. Overall, good luck. I don't play the game all the time currently because I don't want to over play it before it's final release. I have played to many alpha and beta games to know, it's a mistake to do that. I just play it enough to test the new feature, and to have a little fun, but I do not do anything major, like actual missions and such that I take serious. Saving that for later.

[Flixxbeatz]

About #10:

If you use stock because you only want to use stock, that's fine.

If you use stock because of the reason you've stated above, then I might possibly label you a purist*, but with exceptions.

If you only follow that rule by yourself, that's fine.

If you shove that particular rule down other people's throats, then I'll definitely label you a purist*.

If you don't mind other people using mods, then it's fine.

If you are one of those "VANILLA OR DIE" people and/or feel that you are better than people who use mods, THEN YOU'RE DEFINITELY A PURIST* and will be dealt with accordingly.

*...comes with this awesome picture:

--*Mechjeb war incoming*--

"Popcorns! Popcorns here! We got plain, cheese, and caramel. 6 billion kerbits per tub!"

Edited July 12, 2013 by Flixxbeatz

[Coneshot]

Can someone explain how I bring my launch stages back into Kerbin?

A couple of strategically placed seperatrons on your launch stages are usually enough to deorbit them..

[Sof]

You can use other mods like Kerbal engineer and protractor to give you all the useful info that mechjeb provides without the temptation to cheat.

Also, I don't see how limiting the warp will help your enjoyment of the game (unless you are constantly warping past your nodes). Kerbin spends several days out of the launch window to any planet. The Mun and Minmus only holds your attention for so long. Even orbiting Kerbin has several minutes of coasting before anything interesting can be done.

[Ralathon]

Can someone explain how I bring my launch stages back into Kerbin? Also not using time warp a bit ridiculous, how long is my mission to Duna gonna take???

You can get launch stages back by adding a probe body and staging when they have a sliver of fuel left. You can then switch to the discarded stage, point it retrograde and burn your fuel to get it deorbited. Do note that this is only needed for stages that actually make it into orbit. No need to do this for your boosters.

And not using time warp is bull****. A Duna mission would take 2 months. Even simple munar missions would take more than a day. Time warp is your friend, use it often.

[Jackissimus]

I dont think ill follow the 'no orbital debris' though because even in real life there is a crap tone of debris and this is leading to such things a the Kessler Syndrome.

True. I was mostly inspired by Scott Manley's reusable space program videos. I am also a big fan of SpaceX and their reusable space program, so I wanted to try.

I don't agree with the part limits on bases if you can get the parts there legitimately.

Some of those rules are also inspired by my PC setup begging me for mercy. I don't enjoy the lags either... But why have something huge that can do anything? I can have many small stations for example and still be happy. THe problem with larger things is how much is too large? And wouldn't small do just fine?

Can someone explain how I bring my launch stages back into Kerbin? Also not using time warp a bit ridiculous, how long is my mission to Duna gonna take???

Well the idea is to launch it and then do something else, like set up a Kethane base on the Mun or dock more modules to my space station around Kerbin or something. And then when a window comes up to go to Eve, send another rocket there and then do something else in the meantime. Then set up more kethane bases on Minmus and maybe start building a large interplanetary mothership around Minmus (to lower the required deltav for interplanetary transfer). Then there will be a window to go to Moho, so I send a mapsat probe there and then my Duna sat arrived, so I have to perform an injection maneuver into elliptical orbit, then several aerobraking maneuvers to lower the orbit spaced several days apart. I don't know if this will work yet, but the idea is to not do it like this: Launch it into Kerbin orbit / huge warp to transfer window / launch it to Duna / huge warp to Duna / aerocapture. It just distorts the time scale for me somehow, I don't know.

6. Using multiple docking ports is actually a great idea and would probably even work in real life.

This is difficult to explain, but for example, I have nothing against this design: http://cdn.overclock.net/9/91/914d7af5_screenshot7ev.png. It's a good design. But I tried to build many nonstandard designs, that didn't use the symmetry very well (mostly the problem was that you cannot set up vertical symmetry) and ended up measuring millimeters in my ports to set them up right, so they would connect in orbit. It was a pain, it never connected right and in the end I just decided to not try to hack the game, but to play it.

7. Again, why? I say if you happen to mess up and Debris is left everywhere, just leave it.

Exactly, if you mess up, leave it. Just don't design your stages to jettison them in orbit. Again, it goes back to Scott Manley and SpaceX.

Edited July 12, 2013 by Jackissimus

[Xaiier]

I really like this, its kinda what I was planning on doing after the update comes.

[Brabbit1987]

This is difficult to explain, but for example, I have nothing against this design: http://cdn.overclock.net/9/91/914d7af5_screenshot7ev.png. It's a good design. But I tried to build many nonstandard designs, that didn't use the symmetry very well (mostly the problem was that you cannot set up vertical symmetry) and ended up measuring millimeters in my ports to set up the ports right, so they will connect in orbit. It was a pain, it never connected right and in the end I just decided to not try to hack the game, but to play it.

Ok ya, I get what you mean.

Exactly, if you mess up, leave it. Just don't design your stages to jettison them in orbit. Again, it goes back to Scott Manley and SpaceX.

Yes, I agree with this as well =^.^=

I like reusable rockets and space planes. Love Scotts series, and is the reason I got into KSP in the first place.

[AmpsterMan]

I've found not Aerocapturing to be an interesting twist to the game for sure. Very difficult to pull off

I kind of feel like trying to make huge, 50+ ton to orbit rockets to be a bit immersion breaking.

Edited July 12, 2013 by AmpsterMan

[Xiphos]

Jackissimus,

I have been playing this game since Jan. Although I don't consider myself a veteran, I do have a lot of experience. I truly believe that much of the enjoyment for me has been accomplishing things without any mods. When you get to a planet and land there, it was 100% you. This game is made around the user building creations and flying them on their own. I believe anything that takes away from that will ultimately end in unsatisfaction. When you do a low flyby of the mun and see something sparkle on the surface it is the most exciting thing to plan a mission there and find out what it is. Try a few landings using only the IVA view. Then try it at night! With atmosphere and without! Or design two stage landers so the second stage is lift-off return stage. Or build a space station and use it as a port with a dedicated lander for whatever body it's orbiting. New kerbals will fly to the station, then switch to the lander to land. Make a two stage rover so that when the rover runs out of fuel, there is another command pod which detatches and returns to orbit (to your awesome station) and goes back to kerbin. Or you could plan all your missions to return to not only kerbin, but right at KSC within 1km. Or maybe a kerbal is stranded on the north pole of Eeloo and needs rescue. Or you could build a landing platform and take it to another planet and try to land on it! Maybe the platform has wheels so you can move it. Or it could be like a massive rover that just needs a command pod to connect to it so it can drive! and the only way to do that is land on top! Or maybe you want to drop 3 landers on duna at different spots from one insertion! Then drive a rover and pick up all the kerbals and return to kerbin! OR you recieve word that a kerbal on duna actually wanted to go to laythe, so you have to go there, pick him up, then fly to laythe and return! Keep it all vanilla so the satisfaction factor is highest. I am still creating ships better and more efficiently and thinking of ways to work around problems and ideas for missions that I come up with. I hope I gave you some good ideas to help you keep enjoying this awesome game!

[GalaxyGryphon]

i dont understand this arbitrary rule list at all, its all subjective, just play the game and enjoy it the way you want to, its a damn sandbox.

why does everyone need to get into the whole "OOH, mechjeb is cheating, dont use mechjeb because i dont want you too!" thing?

[Parkaboy]

I tend to follow some similar rules, and found out they make the game a lot more fun, especially since I keep track of all my missions through mission reports in a blog. Here are my rules:

1. Keep things small. I only launch payloads that are moderately aerodynamic or that fit inside fairings.

2. No debris in orbit. I try to deorbit all my spent stages, and also use parachutes in all of them, so they could be, in theory, recovered.

3. Keep a save for tests. I use hyper edit on this save to perfect all my ships before trying them on the "official" save, where I'm not allowed to abuse the quicksaving.

4. Launch ships that can be used in several missions. The kethane mod helps me refuel my ships and keep them in service a lot longer.

5. Don't mistreat the Kerbals. I have a time limit for kerbals in zero g, try to leave them with more living space during long missions, and use the Ioncross mod for life support.

6. Aerobraking is only allowed if the ship has a heatshield.

[Whackjob]

My advice:

Drop the mods to up the challenge, build big, give Newton the Kerbonian equivalent of the finger, and fly high!

Throw reason itself into the wind. Then burn it with your exhaust.

#EDIT: I do not technically qualify for old timer status. Above recommendations may therefore be invalid.

[Xaiier]

My advice:

-snip-

Drop the mods to up the challenge, build big, give Newton the Kerbonian equivalent of the finger, and fly high!

-snip-

Throw reason itself into the wind. Then burn it with your exhaust.

#EDIT: I do not technically qualify for old timer status. Above recommendations may therefore be invalid.

I'm pretty sure every single person on these forums has seen your pictures of that monstrosity since you post it on every post no matter the relevance. We get it, your proud. Stop posting pics.

[Whackjob]

It *is* relevant. The guy's looking for something to do, so I'm giving him a suggestion with a visual aid. But you're right, I do post them quite a bit. Ok, I'll hold off then.

Sorry to get your hackles worked up.

[Endeavour]

I've been playing for around a year and a half now, and I recommend taking a break when you get tired of the game. Just do what you think is fun, and set long term goals that are not infinite. Land on the Mun is always a better goal than build a big station because it ends.

[Jackissimus]

It *is* relevant. The guy's looking for something to do, so I'm giving him a suggestion with a visual aid. But you're right, I do post them quite a bit. Ok, I'll hold off then.

Sorry to get your hackles worked up.

Well I have to admit it made me laugh hard

I haven't seen that pic before ...