Oldtimers - help me enjoy the game more!

[katateochi]

1) KEEP THINGS SMALL!

NEVER!! I love the big stuff, but I also love the small stuff. I just depends on what I'm trying to do at the time. I prefer the natural limit of what my poor comp can handle.

2) USE TWO ACCOUNTS!

I pretty much do this already, but what I do is a little geeky and involves GIT and branching.

3) KEEP AUTOMATION TO A MINIMUM!

Yes (I think). I'm an avid mechjeb fan, but just for its info and SURF function. I'm very very bored of turning craft to particular heading with WASD keys, no astronaut does that! I like being able to enter heading 270, pitch 45 and have the craft move to that orientation. I'm allergic to the landing auto-pilot, but I just get a real kick out of manual landings (and a really big kick when I fail). I will on occasions, say if I'm launching the same craft for the 50th time in a series of tests, I will use the ascent auto pilot while I go and make tea.

4) KEEP TIME WARP TO A MINIMUM!

No, sorry, I don't enjoy waiting for the bus, I want it NOW.

5) DON'T ABUSE THE SAVE FILE!

In principle yes. Only fiddle with save files to fix game glitches. One time I had to do a lot of editing was on a mission that involved a lot of docking and where I wanted to keep the mission timer running from time of first launch. But when you undock (from a larger craft) the timer gets set to the undock time. So after each undock I edited it to keep the timer from first launch.

6) NO WEIRD MULTIPLE DOCKING!

Negatory! There are totally stock ways to dock to weird setups. The game was designed to deal with totally wack asymmetric docking (or at least by emergent properties it handles it fine). Your eyes will deceive you, use the Navball.

7) DON'T LEAVE DEBRIS IN ORBIT!

HELL YES. I once wrote a story on the "Origin of the Clean Space Act" and also "The Clean Space Act" but the forum wipe nuked them. I'm proud that after a 25 year space program I have 1 bit of wayward debris that's pottering about in a wide solar orbit.

8) DON'T "END FLIGHT"!

Yes, I'm an advocate of that rule. On really perverse days I'd say you have to get the crew back to KSC, not just Kerbin (that may involve targeted landing or a plane for pickup and return). You can then end crewless flights.

9) NO AEROCAPTURE!

I've recently been trying to follow this one. Things that aerobrake need to be in fairings or have some kinda heat shield in my universe.

10) USE STOCK PARTS!

That's a BIG NEGATORY Sir!! I would agree to use only well balanced mods when it comes to fuel and engine parts (like KW and NovaP), but for me KSP without things like Damned Robotics and KAS is just not anything like as versatile or fun. As far as I can tell, the authors did intend for there to be mods and put effort into making the addition of mods easy. They didn't intend for FTL type things so I'd stay away from them.

So in summary 0110101110

[KSK]

Can someone explain how I bring my launch stages back into Kerbin? Also not using time warp a bit ridiculous, how long is my mission to Duna gonna take???

Add small non-tracking solar panels to ensure you have power. Add a remote control unit (for obvious reasons ) and then plan to leave a little fuel in the stage once you detach it. Unless you have a real brute of a rocket, it really doesnt take much fuel to either send it back to Kerbin or crash it into the nearest planet/moon.

[Xaiier]

It *is* relevant. The guy's looking for something to do, so I'm giving him a suggestion with a visual aid. But you're right, I do post them quite a bit. Ok, I'll hold off then.

Sorry to get your hackles worked up.

I had no intention of being rude, but I've seen you post that quite a few times and I just got sick of it, also if you do post images its probably better to keep it to one per post unless necessary. Thanks.

[KSK]

This is kinda how I play anyway, although I tend to use a lot of automated craft to test things rather than a separate account. I'm also a little too save/reload happy to really get into the spirit of these rules. But point 4 - yeah that makes a difference. Lots of Kerbin/Mun/Minmus missions and then launching a small flotilla of ships when an interplanetary window opens - great fun.

One other rule that I try and follow is 'Rotate Crews'. Don't leave space station crews on orbit for more than a couple of months. If you have a crewed craft in orbit waiting for something to happen - give the little guys some R&R every so often!

[fatfluffycat]

Get some Mods

[AmpsterMan]

i dont understand this arbitrary rule list at all, its all subjective, just play the game and enjoy it the way you want to, its a damn sandbox.

why does everyone need to get into the whole "OOH, mechjeb is cheating, dont use mechjeb because i dont want you too!" thing?

Well to be fair, I think the OP was just sharing his own subjective list. I don't think he was being Objective at all or even intending to.

That being said, I do see why he might raise certain points. Like that premise of "instead of gaming the system just play the game." i kind of feel that way sometimes. Example, lately (as in the past four weeks) I have been trying to recreate a Soyuz style rocket using only stock parts and clipping enabled. This has actually been a bit of a frustrating endeavor for me because I have phantom forces causing the rocket to spin wildly that I have for the life of me not been able to stop. I spent about 10-15 hours of my time trying to fix these and other problems because I couldn't just accept the fact that clustering engines doesn't really seem to be "intended" in stock yet.

I think the OP was just sharing his revelations is all.

[Turbojohn]

What do you mean when you say "In a way the authors intended"?

It's a sandbox game.

The point of a sandbox game is to, actually quite ironicaly: Think outside the box.

Sometimes putting some rules to make it a challenge is nice.

But confining ourselves to how the devs wants us to play? No way.

Well, since the devs are cool guys, it's kind of impossible to not play how it is intended.

[msyblade]

I'm on board with ya, minus 4, 6, 7, and 8. Nice thread!

[KerbMav]

I too like keeping it "realistic" - and I try to abstain from modded engines, tanks etc. because I am in no way capable of deciding, if the parts were created "overpowered" meaning in a way that places them outside the parameters used to create the stock parts.

[Pursuedtank]

I see that nobody else has, but I do kind of agree with the keeping time warp to a minimum, unless you have nothing else to do. I often find that I could be doing something else while time warping through to a planetary alignment. As I don't follow a one mission at a time strategy, preferring to follow a slow spread out with multiple missions, I often find myself with plenty to do. I do time warp to rendezvous and if I have finished everything that I need to do, to get to the next stage in the plan.

[Brabbit1987]

I too like keeping it "realistic" - and I try to abstain from modded engines, tanks etc. because I am in no way capable of deciding, if the parts were created "overpowered" meaning in a way that places them outside the parameters used to create the stock parts.

The way I decide is if I am building with stock parts and find that it would be nice to have this specific part, usually that part would be something that fits in. Like example, different colored lights, or different command pods. I also make sure the stats on the parts match properly and seem about right. I also limit the size of the parts which really should not be much of an issue since launching smaller portions in more realistic anyway. Another good example would be different types of solar panels which also fit in well with the game.

[haltux]

I would put as rule 1 (and maybe only rule):

1. Don't do things which are obvioulsy irrealistic but doable because of the weaknesses of the game engine.

The most obvious example being designing rocket with stupidly high drag. Excessive speed and angle for reentry beeing another one.

And by the way, many things in MechJeb are fine, and not just delta-v info. If you accept using manoeuvre nodes, there is really no reason not to generate them automatically for Hohmann transfers, for example.

[Travisfv]

Here is my list of rules which I refuse to deviate from.

1. Always, if possible, do what you are going to do in the game.

2. Where applicable, add more boosters.

2a. Either liquid or solid.

3. Every Kerbal is to be sent where they are going.

4. Mechjeb is something.

4a. So is Kerbal Engineer.

5. When de-orbiting a ship or part, make sure you're on the right planet.

5a. Or not.

5b. Scratch that, make sure you are.

6. Rockets are meant to go up.

7. Spaceplanes can happen to anyone, just not me.

8. Time warp is a legitimate tool built with the impatient in mind.

8a. Such as myself.

9. This is the end of the list of rules.

9b. Okay, this is the real end of it.

10. In section 9 there is a correction. It's meant to read 9a, where as now it reads 9b.

Really though, I refuse to abide by any rules that doesn't suit me. Which is any rules.

[leax256]

You can use other mods like Kerbal engineer and protractor to give you all the useful info that mechjeb provides without the temptation to cheat.

If the temptation to "cheat" as you call it is too great for you, it's your fault.

Just because someone leaves the cookies out doesn't mean you need to take them.

[Johno]

I have two rules:

1) Enjoy the game.

2) In case of doubt, refer back to rule 1.

(Your rules are fine, but they depend on being a more skilled rocketeer than myself).

[msyblade]

Ha! Love katateochi's post on page 3 (I missed the quote button apparently).Tongue in cheek, all worries to the wind!

@Whackjob, you feel free to tell us everything you are doing multiple times.If I either get to hear your enthusiasm, or people sick of hearing others enthusiasm, I'll take your grinning mug all day!

Edited July 13, 2013 by msyblade

[Brabbit1987]

If the temptation to "cheat" as you call it is too great for you, it's your fault.

Just because someone leaves the cookies out doesn't mean you need to take them.

A little off topic, but I love that metaphor =^.^=

I am more likely to take cookies if they are left out, cause I like cookies.

[leax256]

A little off topic, but I love that metaphor =^.^=

I am more likely to take cookies if they are left out, cause I like cookies.

good to see someone aprecaties the hard work i put into coming up with that.

It was one of my better ones.

[SkyHook]

Well I have to say that I agree with rules 1, 6, and 9 but the other rules that you have set for yourself are logically inconsistent and crippling to yourself. For example, in rule 9, you have forbidden yourself from using aerocapture on ships that would not survive such a maneuver in real life. The rule is good, but you know what else wouldn't happen in real life? NASA saying "Let's go to Mars using ONLY the technology that we had in 1965. NO NEW TECHNOLOGY. THAT'S NOT HOW IT WAS MEANT TO BE DONE." This is essentially the logic that you use in rule 10, where you forbid the use of modification parts, as if to say that using only the parts that Squad has gotten around to using are legitimate, and helpful. Implementing rule 6 in search of realism, then implementing rule 10, shirking that realism in favor of moral elitism is logically inconsistency.

You also use the justification "that's how the developers intended for the game to be played" for many of your rules. The assertion is incorrect. My evidence? A modding API for the game, and the community manager for the game personally inviting Majiir, the current maintainer of Kethane, onto his livestream, effectively endorsing him. As well, the developers have gone on record saying that the performance issue caused by vessels containing more that 200 or so parts is caused by Unity, and not much can be done about it. This is an unintended behavior of the game. Also, this is a videogame. If you agree that staring at your spacecraft for 9 hours on its way to a trans-munar insertion is fun, then don't use timewarp. Otherwise, do yourself a favor and use timewarp

In my analysis I have tried to be as objective as possible, only attacking logical inconsistencies, and not personal opinions. As a veteran, Your ruleset is goodwilled, but ultimately adds artificial difficulty to the game. Using a more natural and logically consistent set of rules will avoid this, and add alot of fun to your game. Hope this helps!

[Brapness]

I understand not wanting to use mods like mechjeb to do the job for you as it can take the fun out of the game. Personally though, my rule is that I never use mechjeb to do something I haven't already proved I can do myself. I've launched countless missions so I think I've earned the right to use mechjeb to take the monotony out of reaching orbit. I've plotted planetary transfers and I feel I've done it enough times to use mechjeb to fine tune it and save on fuel, which gives me more flexibility when I arrive.

[AustralianFries]

In This Thread:

-Elitism

-MechJeb/Mod Arguments

-How many parts is too much

They never learn.

[Jason_25]

I hate these rules.

[EmissionGeneration]

I'd like to add:

10) RemoteTech Mod for a more Realistic feel of Satelite Communication, and Docking Cam for a better feel with Docking.

11) Don't fly your Craft in Map Mode, learn to watch the Node Marker and Timer if you set one up, or if using MechJeb [information Screens], try and avoid Nodes all together.

I agree with all of these and play my Game this way except:

2) USE TWO ACCOUNTS!

One account is a sandbox for testing and development. You may use this account to test your reusable space program vehicles, general pilot training and for trying out new concepts in the game. The other account is the main account for the actual continuous game. You can do anything you want in the testing account, but once you are done, no transfer of save files or persistent files to the game account is allowed. You are allowed to move your ship designs freely, that's what the development account is for. In the game account, every launch is final, so prepare yourself well.

In reality Space Agencies haven't got the luxury to have a 2nd Reality to go to and build their Craft, for example, when Career Mode comes out, a Computer might tell them it would be successful as would a simulator, but after spending Hundreds of thousands of Dollars on creating the ship, it flops in the end. We have Mods like Kerbal Engineer to give us enough Information to know if the design will work for it's purpose, but if it's not Manufactured correctly, then a "free testing" game will not really fit in. Everything should be played in the 1 Game, and if this results in Kerbal Deaths, then find a nice place for a Cemetery. For the people who do not use Kerbal Engineer this would be passable as they wouldn't have any information provided for them by Squad.

3) KEEP AUTOMATION TO A MINIMUM!

Never use Mechjeb's autopilots in your gaming account. You may use its statistical and info features. You can also use it to check what maneuvers it plots for a certain target and compare them with your own. Use it to learn from it, not play the game for you.

As a lot of people say, they enjoy Flying their Ship, but after the 100th time, they would much prefer to use it's Autopilot Feature to prevent the Game becoming a chore for them. As I haven't been playing that long I haven't yet found myself doing this, but can easily see how it can start feeling that way. Besides, Real life, Autopilot exists, in Space Flight, and Commercial Flight.

Edited July 14, 2013 by EmissionGeneration

[EmissionGeneration]

Just read more then the first post in this Thread, and look, more MechJeb arguments lol... Well, I say again, Squad have spoken about Training Kerbals to "FLY YOUR SHIP" so technically, you "No MechJeb" People, will have a Autopilot in the Core Game.

[maackey]

Protip: just ignore people who mention mechjeb. Its healthier for everybody, for or against.

Anyway, back to the topic: I found it interesting that I pretty much adopted a lot of these rules from the get-go shortly after I got into orbit and landed on the Mun.

I do make extensive use of mods, however, as they solve some "realistic" issues with KSP. FAR and Re-entry heat make it so I have to limit the size of my standard payloads and aerobrake gently/protected by heatshield, and Remote-tech also helps realism, as well as something else to do besides land/orbit. Kethane and ISA are good for extra activities as well -- which are infinitely helpful if you are getting bored with the standard game.

Limited use of time warp is probably my toughest challenge, and I'll probably bend it a bit once I get an interplanetary mothership I'm happy with. Basically I don't use more than 10,000x timewarp, so I can easily go to the Mun and minmus, but scheduling interplanetary missions is a bit more critical. I've used it to get to the planets I've been to already, but I feel uncomfortable leaving all my synchronized satellites and Kerbals back home unattended for extreme periods of time. Its allowed me to extensively develop some pretty cool stuff, like a command pod which returns to Kerbin with no parachutes and a SSTO spaceplane shuttle which can be used for communication satellites and crew rotation.

I have a series of rockets which pretty much put up everything my shuttle doesn't. They all have retro-sepratrons to de-orbit the main stage, and a command pod on the orbital stage which can de-orbit itself. I've occasionally had problems with fairings remaining in orbit, but they typically have periapses under 70km (I wish the game would delete the ones under 70 instead of whatever ridiculously low ceiling its at now, or change the path to a slowly devolving spiral, or incrementally reduce the apoapsis every time the debris passes through a periapsis less than 70).

The biggest detriments of the game for me personally are the lack of missions/progression (aka stuff to do) and (lack of) performance. I burned through the mission controller mod's default mission in a single day (only used 2 lifter rocket variations and a handful of satellite/command pod configurations), and the other pack I downloaded was just a jumble of random missions which lacked direction IMO, (also bug ridden as hell). Some people really adore graphics, but for me not much is more satisfying than a buttery smooth framerate. Fortunately both of these issues will hopefully be addressed in the future, and until then I have my other go-to games to keep me company.