Looking to start installing mods to provide a *deeper* gameplay experience

[FlowerChild]

Hey guys,

I'm a few weeks into play with KSP, have gotten the hang of orbiting, landing on the Mun, docking...all the basics. I'm (not so) patiently waiting on .21 as career mode is a really big deal to me, and I was actually holding off on purchasing the game until it was implemented so as not to spoil the experience. Someone gifted it to me on Steam however, so I started playing despite myself, and have been loving it to death

So, while I'm waiting on .21, I'm considering installing a few mods to give them a try over the weekend before the update puts them out of action for awhile. I've been scouring the forums looking for mods that result in a deeper gameplay experience (I'm really not interested in play aids like MechJeb or whatever), and came up with the following short list of mods that really sound appealing:

-RemoteTech

-FAR

-Procedural Fairings (launching satellites with big hunking exposed parts on top drives me nuts)

Any others those with similar interests would recommend adding to that list? I'm basically looking for mods that result in a richer gameplay experience without making the game easier.

Thanks in advance for any help provided.

[lammatt]

mechjeb

flight data is so important.

you wont go very far if you dont even know how much dV you can achieve with your fuel; knowing true altitude is also important ask yourself how many times you crashed into the ground at (any planet) while the alt. meter was telling you it was 4500m altitude.

kerbal alarm clock

you really need an alarm clock if you fly multiple ships...

you know... the yr1 launch window for Eve and Eeloo is like 30day apart; you hv to launch your eeloo ship when your eve ship is still in transit;

without an alarm clock... it'll be pretty hard to keep track for the launches and orbital maneuvers of different missions

ISA MapSat

you want to find the Easter Eggs... dont you?

those monoliths? the other Kerbal Space Center in the desert? the Mun Arch?

[Pursuedtank]

You could look at deadly reentry, it does exactly what it says on the tin. Rather than just visual effects when you return to a planet, it makes it a lot harder to do, you will need to design crafts in a way that protects them from the heat.

Possible Kethane as well, some say it makes the game easier, but it does set up a lot of infrastructure on different planets, in order to mine it effectively.

Edited July 14, 2013 by Pursuedtank

[leopardenthusiast]

If it's information you want, skip MechJeb and get Kerbal Engineer Redux.

[Flixxbeatz]

KW Rocketry and NovaPunch Reloaded. It has got all the parts you want. And no plugins needed!

If it's information you want, skip MechJeb and get Kerbal Engineer Redux.

*grabs instant popcorn, waiting to be heated if "it" starts*

[FlowerChild]

You could look at deadly reentry, it does exactly what it says on the tin. Rather than just visual effects when you return to a planet, it makes it a lot harder to do, you will need to design crafts in a way that protects them from the heat.

Thanks man, that's exactly the kind of thing I'm looking for. I'll add that one to the list.

Possible Kethane as well, some say it makes the game easier, but it does set up a lot of infrastructure on different planets, in order to mine it effectively.

I looked that one over, but admittedly, I'm not really seeing how this helps the gameplay. I totally dig the idea of having a reason to build infrastructure elsewhere (seriously...love that idea), however, what I'm not getting is doesn't it still just give you an infinite supply of fuel on Kerban to begin with? So, why are you mining fuel elsewhere?

I guess I just don't see how providing a means of attaining a resource you already have in infinite supply contributes to gameplay, but I may be missing something.

And guys, seriously: I appreciate the responses, but I specifically said I wasn't interested in MechJeb or other gameplay aids within the OP, and even implied it within the thread title. I'm looking for a deeper gameplay experience here, and all the other threads I saw talking about mod recommendations were just saturated with game aids.

Can we please keep this thread to just the kind of mods I'm looking for, and not the much broader topic of mods that people like to use?

Edited July 15, 2013 by FlowerChild

[Rod4Rodger]

I recommend MechJeb --- use as much or as little as you want but even the Apollo had a sequencer they called a computer.

Crewmanifest is a must. It lets you manage your Kerbals and the best I can tell is the only way to get them from one ship to another when docked unless you do a spacewalk so I consider it a necessity for making the docking function actually meaningful.

ISA MapSAT is a lot of fun.

RemoteTech is a lot of fun.

Try the Cardboard Box version of the Dragon Rider Capsule which is modeled after the SpaceX Dragon. (Not Kerbex or any of the other knock offs, Cardbaord Box) The newest version, about a week old, has an RCS fix in it that is needed. If you like it send me a private message and I will send you a version with a lot of systems integration and improved stability that I have not released to the public out of respect for the authors of the original mod.

I like to do my own interplanetary burns so I added Protractor.

There is a neat mod out that simulates life support and I think it is very workable with a little part.cfg modifying but I have only dabbled with it.

I build mostly rockets so FAR was not a huge difference to me other than additional screens to deal with so I took it out for now but it looks like it might be fun.

Deadly re-entry looks like a lot of fun too but when I installed it my MapSat dish blew up from overheating while sitting on the launch pad waiting for launch. I will probably try it again but I took it out after that silliness proved to happen with way too many parts.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Rod4Rodger

[leopardenthusiast]

KW Rocketry and NovaPunch Reloaded. It has got all the parts you want. And no plugins needed!

*grabs instant popcorn, waiting to be heated if "it" starts*

I have no intention of starting a flamewar, I'm just saying that if you don't want the autopilot, Kerbal Engineer Redux will do the job fine (and, at least imo, it's much easier to use). If you DO want the autopilot, by all means, install MechJeb.

[Galacticruler]

I looked that one over, but admittedly, I'm not really seeing how this helps the gameplay. I totally dig the idea of having a reason to build infrastructure elsewhere (seriously...love that idea), however, what I'm not getting is doesn't it still just give you an infinite supply of fuel on Kerban to begin with? So, why are you mining fuel elsewhere?

I guess I just don't see how providing a means of attaining a resource you already have in infinite supply contributes to gameplay, but I may be missing something.

Kethane is not ∞...it can run out and you would wind up relocating a whole colony over it.

Also, its not just Kethane, as it supports other mods like Extraplanetary Laucnhpads, which allow you to (should you have the parts and ore) construct a vehicle on another world (not space though).

[Kimberly]

I looked that one over, but admittedly, I'm not really seeing how this helps the gameplay. I totally dig the idea of having a reason to build infrastructure elsewhere (seriously...love that idea), however, what I'm not getting is doesn't it still just give you an infinite supply of fuel on Kerban to begin with? So, why are you mining fuel elsewhere?

I guess I just don't see how providing a means of attaining a resource you already have in infinite supply contributes to gameplay, but I may be missing something.

It's all about location. Having a proper infrastructure in place changes the way you use your ships. For example, instead of making a big ship with enough fuel for Laythe and back, you can make a ship that only has enough fuel for Laythe, refuel it on the ground (or in orbit) with fuel from your kethane mining operation, and then send it back. To do the same thing in stock, you'd need to ferry all that fuel to Laythe first. Though I will admit kethane isn't quite balanced yet; you can use it to produce everything (even xenon).

[FlowerChild]

I recommend MechJeb --- use as much or as little as you want but even the Apollo had a sequencer they called a computer.

Lol...I guess when someone specifically says "I don't want MechJeb", the first response people immediately go to is "install MechJeb".

Don't want it...not interested...no thank you. I'm sure it's a fine mod, but I enjoy eye-balling things, and it's really not the kind of thing I'm looking for. Like I said above, I created this thread specifically to get recommendations on mods that provide a deeper game play experience, as opposed to play aids, because other similar threads were saturated with stuff like MechJeb, making it extremely difficult for me to sort out the kind of mods I'm looking for from the mix.

It's all about location. Having a proper infrastructure in place changes the way you use your ships. For example, instead of making a big ship with enough fuel for Laythe and back, you can make a ship that only has enough fuel for Laythe, refuel it on the ground (or in orbit) with fuel from your kethane mining operation, and then send it back. To do the same thing in stock, you'd need to ferry all that fuel to Laythe first. Though I will admit kethane isn't quite balanced yet; you can use it to produce everything (even xenon).

Yeah, I can see that part, and I think that's very cool. If the mod somehow required you to find Kethane on Kerban first in order to make anything other than solid fuel for example, I think I'd dig the idea a lot more. Would really lend a sense of progression to the whole game.

As it stands, I think I may restrict my play to the Mun and Minimus until the game's career mode is a little more fleshed out, as like I said in the OP, I'm pretty reluctant to spoil the experience through playing too much sand box. As a result, interplanetary bases are probably not going to be my thing anyways, but if I change my mind on that, I'll definitely give Kethane a look

[PDCWolf]

A good list would be:

•RemoteTech

•IonCross

•Deadly Reentry (Even if it was made stupidly easy and pointless thanks to the MJ crew, still possesses some challenge)

•KAS

•Mission controller if you want to strictly follow a space program and make unrealistic, budget adjusted rockets.

Look how I avoided FAR. Why? It's as **** as stock aerodynamics, but in new and exciting ways, it's not by any means realistic.

About parts:

•KWRocketry provides a good set of parts to play with

•AIES is a good competitor to KWRocketry

•KSPX fills some stock gaps.

I avoided novapunch and b9 because they include OP parts.

[Rod4Rodger]

Lol...I guess when someone specifically says "I don't want MechJeb", the first response people immediately go to is "install MechJeb".

Don't want it...not interested...no thank you. I'm sure it's a fine mod, but I enjoy eye-balling things, and it's really not the kind of thing I'm looking for. Like I said above, I created this thread specifically to get recommendations on mods that provide a deeper game play experience, as opposed to play aids, because other similar threads were saturated with stuff like MechJeb, making it extremely difficult for me to sort out the kind of mods I'm looking for from the mix.

Rod4Rodger Edit -- Remember in Apollo 13 when they had to make the burn without the flight computer? To me playing the game without any aid is exactly like doing that with every burn. Nobody in their right mind would do that in real life. I was sixteen when it happened and hung on every report and news broadcast and when the movie came out researched it again. Pretty much everything on the spacecraft that was recorded was re-enactments of what really happened. I have heard interviews with James Lovell about how frightening that burn was without the computer. (Why can't I get this thing to put the edit in the right place?)

Yeah, I can see that part, and I think that's very cool. If the mod somehow required you to find Kethane on Kerban first in order to make anything other than solid fuel for example, I think I'd dig the idea a lot more. Would really lend a sense of progression to the whole game.

As it stands, I think I may restrict my play to the Mun and Minimus until the game's career mode is a little more fleshed out, as like I said in the OP, I'm pretty reluctant to spoil the experience through playing too much sand box. As a result, interplanetary bases are probably not going to be my thing anyways, but if I change my mind on that, I'll definitely give Kethane a look

I use the parts of MechJeb I like, such as having better things to do than point a ship for fifteen minutes to do a slow burn with an ion or nuclear engine, but I do not use all of them by any means. I was not recommending you use it fully only that it has some good aids and that even the Apollo could point itself and fire its own engines and modern space craft are even better. It is piss poor at plotting interplanetary burns and can't hit a target on landing half the time. The fly by wire direction control when I do my own burns and feel lazy are fun. It is like having an auto pilot on an airplane but preferring to fly it manually. Since you think it would reduce the experience, use protractor because it lets you plot your injection burns without putting a protractor to the screen.

It takes a while to get beyond the Kerbin system unless you use the cheats and I agree 100% that it is a lot more fun to work up to it with designs and your capabilities.

I thought you wanted honest opinions and I do not think MechJeb is a cheat even though a lot do. It makes it more fun for me. Other than that and the Dragon capsule the other mods I recommended, Protractor, ISA MapSat, and RemoteTech are awesome mods that do not take too much away. Unless you are a programmer you can't buy a better capsule than the Dragon.

My adult kids play and they use different mods and play different ways. They set their own rules and refuse to use anything but chemical rockets, and are taking it step by step. The point is play the game how best suits you and I will be anxious to see which mods you decide make the game more fun and what rules you set for yourself.

Edited July 16, 2013 by Rod4Rodger
Real Life Note About Apollo 13 - Why did it put the edit in the quote?

[Rod4Rodger]

Has anybody played the FIGARO GPS mod? It looks interesting.

[Kimberly]

Has anybody played the FIGARO GPS mod? It looks interesting.

It is simple yet interesting. It's fun to play around with, and shows you how much effort is involved with establishing a working global positioning system. If you use Mapsat, you can use Figaro to drive to anomalies and whatnot...but unfortunately Mapsat can also tell you your position (magically), making Figaro obsolete. You have to make sure you don't use the Mapsat option to keep things fair.

[Kaleb]

Here's a fun one I haven't seen mentioned yet: The Ordan Industries telescope mod. It gives you two sizes of space telescope you can put in orbit (the small one's under science, the large one is under command pods). I haven't used the big one yet, but tonight I was just looking through the small one at the Mun, Minmus, and Eve. I tried looking at Duna and Jool, but they're on the far side of Kerbol atm, so the viewing was less than ideal.

Chatterer adds some unintelligible background radio chatter, which is a nice touch.

Graphotron or Logomatic can send data readings to a CSV file on your computer if you care to graph scientific readings.

For parts, I like to include at least one Aviation Light on all my spacecraft. Not sure it increases gameplay per se, but it sure does increase the visibility when the ship is on the dark side of a planet! (I guess if you're building airplanes, you can put authentic red/green/white lights on it.)

The Lazor Camera (looks like a webcam, and can pan and zoom) and the Lazor Docking Camera (docking-port-eye view) are also pretty nifty, even if you don't get the rest of the Lazor system. I understand there's weapons in there too, if you're into that sort of thing, though I haven't tried them.

If you want to play with airplanes, I've heard Spitfire (which gives you propellers and pontoons?) is pretty good, though I haven't played around with it at all.

[Asparagus Laboratories]

Kethane is interesting, like others have mentioned it still needs some balancing, but you can build re-fueling satellites for long planetary missions.

[Rod4Rodger]

My adult kids are taking the Kethane route to the planets. My favorites as far as things to do are MapSat and Remotetech. I really liked IronCross but have not fully implemented it in my space program. I will probably start over and build it once I have all the mods I like and have tweaked my own mods. I am going to try the telescope though. That sounds like fun and I may try the GPS because placing all those satellites in the right place will be a real bitch.

[internerd]

I avoided novapunch and b9 because they include OP parts.

Such as?

The escape tower in NP is essential, but I definitely think that KW would be considered more op than NP.

[Goddamnit- Clown]

There are some key mods to bring in some more of the core challenges of actual space flight (while remaining in hand-controlled hard-mode). Remotetech and a good life support mod to bring some more meaningful differences between manned and unmanned missions while adding some more goals for the ship design and for new missions. Maybe someone can recommend a good life support mod?

Secondly, FAR and deadly reentry are both fantastic and again, take more of the training wheels off. Though you'll need to use fairing factory, or fairings from another pack like KW or novapunch to get anything off the ground.

As for part packs to give you more options, I sympathise with the pain of people recommending 14 different mods totalling 250 new parts "to get you started" but I would say that to keep it simple: KSPX is a good and not too bloated pack of balanced parts which fit in nicely with the stock stuff, filling in gaps and expanding on a few things but keeping the same appearance and stat balance. Damned Robotics and KAS together add an enormous amount of power to what you can make - hinges, servos, hydraulics, winches, etc. And if you're looking at aircraft, Firespitter has (a vast and endless sea of) aeroplane parts, many of which are pretty redundant but a few are pure genius and PWing is the tiniest but magnificent-est addition to making planes in KSP giving you one completely customisable wing with procedurally generated stats instead of trying to glue 20 or so other wings together like a castaway lashing driftwood into a raft

But in short remotetech and life support gives you space flight, FAR and deadly reentry puts it in a real(ish) atmosphere. Other than that, my only advice is to add mods a few at a time and remember you don't need to keep every part, most mods come with far too many!

Edited July 17, 2013 by Goddamnit, Clown

[TaranisElsu]

My recommendations are:

• ISA MapSat -- gives you something to do: map the different planets and moons. You have to figure out good altitudes and inclinations at which to scan. Choose poorly and it will take forever to scan a planet, if it ever finishes. Make sure you download the dev version off his blog, not the one linked to in his thread.
  
• Figaro GPS -- gives a reason to set up a satellite constellation. It was fun learning about ideal positioning of the satellites to maximize their usefulness without having to launch too many of them.
  
• Remotetech -- makes unmanned missions more challenging, and gives you a reason to set up a communications network.
  
• Ioncross or my TAC Life Support (shameless plug ) -- makes manned missions more challenging. You have to plan ahead to have enough resources so your crew does not die.
  
• Kethane -- gives you something to do on other planets or moons. I find it a nice challenge to send a detector satellite to find deposits, get a space station in orbit, then send down mining landers to extract the Kethane (or refined fuel) and return it to the space station. It doesn't concern me that you have an endless supply that you can ship from Kerbin. It gives you options. You can ship more from Kerbin, or you can try to make a more or less self-sufficient base or space station. Also, you waste a lot of fuel (and money) launching things from Kerbin. Its high gravity and thick atmosphere make your dV requirements much higher than launching off of the Mun or Minmus.
  
• CrewManifest -- makes it easier to crew your ships with crew of your choosing, so you can: send up a 3-man capsule with one person, or fill all of your crewable capsules, or send a manned ship on a test flight with no crew (with a probe core).
  
• Kerbal Attachment System (KAS) -- increases what you can do. It is fun making a sky crane that lowers the rover using the winch. Or send up a ship to deorbit debris.
  

Other recommendations:

• Kerbal Alarm Clock -- makes it easier to have several flights going at once (a must have for me). You set an alarm to remind you to check on a ship at a particular time, or before it reaches a maneuver node, SOI change, etc.
  
• Subassembly Manager -- you can save off parts of your rockets to make it easier to reuse designs.
  
• Chatterer -- adds ambiance in the form of radio traffic between KSC and your ship.
  
• Haystacks -- makes it easier to select ships in map view.
  
• ModuleManager -- not a mod in itself, it allows you to tweak other mods or stock parts
  
• KSPX -- I really like the additional parts and the options they provide. Not too many parts, nicely done, and they look stock.
  
• KW Rocketry -- but only for the fairings. The fairing work really well and look nice. You should also check out the Procedural Fairings mod, I have not had a chance yet.
  

I would also recommend Kerbal Engineer and Protractor, but it sounds like you are strict about your "no play aids" -- which is fine.

Do you make any dV or TWR calculations? You can do that by hand or with a spreadsheet. I recommend looking into it because it will deepen your game play when you understand how to make efficient rockets that still get where you want them to go, and understand why it is efficient. And don't just add MOAR BOOSTERS as the solution to everything (even though it is fun ).

Edited July 17, 2013 by TaranisElsu
How did I forget the GPS mod?!?

[Rod4Rodger]

My recommendations are:

• ISA MapSat -- gives you something to do: map the different planets and moons. You have to figure out good altitudes and inclinations at which to scan. Choose poorly and it will take forever to scan a planet, if it ever finishes. Make sure you download the dev version off his blog, not the one linked to in his thread.
  
• Figaro GPS -- gives a reason to set up a satellite constellation. It was fun learning about ideal positioning of the satellites to maximize their usefulness without having to launch too many of them.
  
• Remotetech -- makes unmanned missions more challenging, and gives you a reason to set up a communications network.
  
• Ioncross or my TAC Life Support (shameless plug ) -- makes manned missions more challenging. You have to plan ahead to have enough resources so your crew does not die.
  
• Kethane -- gives you something to do on other planets or moons. I find it a nice challenge to send a detector satellite to find deposits, get a space station in orbit, then send down mining landers to extract the Kethane (or refined fuel) and return it to the space station. It doesn't concern me that you have an endless supply that you can ship from Kerbin. It gives you options. You can ship more from Kerbin, or you can try to make a more or less self-sufficient base or space station. Also, you waste a lot of fuel (and money) launching things from Kerbin. Its high gravity and thick atmosphere make your dV requirements much higher than launching off of the Mun or Minmus.
  
• CrewManifest -- makes it easier to crew your ships with crew of your choosing, so you can: send up a 3-man capsule with one person, or fill all of your crewable capsules, or send a manned ship on a test flight with no crew (with a probe core).
  
• Kerbal Attachment System (KAS) -- increases what you can do. It is fun making a sky crane that lowers the rover using the winch. Or send up a ship to deorbit debris.
  

Other recommendations:

• Kerbal Alarm Clock -- makes it easier to have several flights going at once (a must have for me). You set an alarm to remind you to check on a ship at a particular time, or before it reaches a maneuver node, SOI change, etc.
  
• Subassembly Manager -- you can save off parts of your rockets to make it easier to reuse designs.
  
• Chatterer -- adds ambiance in the form of radio traffic between KSC and your ship.
  
• Haystacks -- makes it easier to select ships in map view.
  
• ModuleManager -- not a mod in itself, it allows you to tweak other mods or stock parts
  
• KSPX -- I really like the additional parts and the options they provide. Not too many parts, nicely done, and they look stock.
  
• KW Rocketry -- but only for the fairings. The fairing work really well and look nice. You should also check out the Procedural Fairings mod, I have not had a chance yet.
  

I would also recommend Kerbal Engineer and Protractor, but it sounds like you are strict about your "no play aids" -- which is fine.

Do you make any dV or TWR calculations? You can do that by hand or with a spreadsheet. I recommend looking into it because it will deepen your game play when you understand how to make efficient rockets that still get where you want them to go, and understand why it is efficient. And don't just add MOAR BOOSTERS as the solution to everything (even though it is fun ).

90% agree, great list. Only one thing I question... no aids, ok, protractor measures the actual angles as they are happening. If you do not use any computerized aids, would that mean you have to actually put a protractor to the map screen to decide when to burn? I like some of the computer aids, but does a protractor that is not even a pocket calculator qualify?

I am going to try your life support. I have fiddled with Ironcross a bit and I like it but I have not seen yours. I have a problem, I fly a capsule based on the Dragon of my own design and it has a lot of switches to control how it works. When I added Ironcross it made the bottom of the list roll off the screen and I can't find any way to move it or split it or make access to it user friendly. Do you have any ideas?

I am about convinced I need to try Figaro.

My daughter and her BF love Kethane but before I found out about it I created my own system so I haven't played it but I have considered starting another game.

[TouhouTorpedo]

Hey guys,

Career mode is a really big deal to me

Mission Controller. 100% you want that. Also get the NT missions pack to go with it. http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/nt-space-program-mission-controll-mission-pack/

A good list would be:

•Mission controller if you want to strictly follow a space program and make unrealistic, budget adjusted rockets.

Lies. I've built realistic rockets in Mission Controller before.

[Devo]

I use the Hydrotech RCS plugin alot these days, it's really coming in handy and is really great at keepin the ship stable without silly ASAS wobble.

[camlost]

Look how I avoided FAR. Why? It's as **** as stock aerodynamics, but in new and exciting ways, it's not by any means realistic.

Wrong answer