Orbiting

[Johnno]

Basically I get the feeling that I'm going to have to spend the whole time micro-managing the WASD keys. That's just fantastic, knowing that the slightest tap of one of them causes the rocket to start spinning uncontrollably.

You can hold F key to do temporary adjustments (it disables ASAS while held), as soon as you release F it'll stay on the course you were on.

Also, I do have ASAS and SAS on the rocket, but pressing the WASD keys does absolutely nothing when SAS is on, and if I turn it off and then try to make a course correction, the uncontrollable spinning happens.

Well the ASAS is there to hold the course, it prevents you from changing course. Use your F key, as I mentioned above.

[Nabiscovinco]

Also, I have no idea if you know this: but if you are rotating, put on time accelerate (only to 2x) and rotating/flipping stops. (This only works in space, i believe.) Even if this doesn't help right now, trust me, IT WILL.

[Kevin W.]

Instead of waiting to reach 70km to turn for your burn, do so beforehand. Most often I have to turn off my engines around 40km or so and coasting up takes over a minute, giving plenty of time to both set a manouver node and point the nose on the horizon. Or other way around, whichever I feel for at the time. And if the rocket isn't responsive enough, either RCS or turn on the main engines on low power for a gimbal assisted turn.

I usually do my turn around 30-45 seconds before reaching apoapsis.

How do I set the maneuver node and what does that do?

[Nabiscovinco]

<-- Scott Manley (a.k.a Kerbal god)

Its about 31 minutes, but it covers everything from construction to orbiting, using the nodes.

[Kevin W.]

I don't get it. I built as basic a launcher as possible and it's not working. This one rotates during flight so by the time I'm up to 10KM, I'm not even aligned correctly to start burning for the apoapsis.

What is going on? Why can't I get this right? I tried the F+D option and wouldn't you know, it still over-corrected and turned past where I wanted it to! Nothing I'm doing is working.

[Teirusu]

...And if the rocket isn't responsive enough, either RCS or turn on the main engines on low power for a gimbal assisted turn...

This, this, this. You'll -need- RCS thrusters to maneuver such a larger rocket in space. The small probe cores only give you a tiny bit of roll/yaw/pitch energy, unlike the bigger command pods. SAS I believe only gives you more roll force, but not pitch and yaw force, which are the two that help you point your rocket in a particular direction.

[Teirusu]

I don't get it. I built as basic a launcher as possible and it's not working. This one rotates during flight so by the time I'm up to 10KM, I'm not even aligned correctly to start burning for the apoapsis.

What is going on? Why can't I get this right? I tried the F+D option and wouldn't you know, it still over-corrected and turned past where I wanted it to! Nothing I'm doing is working.

And your problem here is that the engines you're using (T30s) have no gimballing control. Gimballing is basically where the engine nozzle can vector thrust in slightly different directions to help control where you're going. This can typically be over-come by using the rocket winglets, but you have none on that ship. Moreover, radially mounted engines/boosters tend to put a tiny amount of spin into your ship too.

What you should do is replace the center T30 engine with a T45 engine, then add some winglets to the center tank just in-between the radial separators.

[Johnno]

I don't get it. I built as basic a launcher as possible and it's not working.

That's not as basic as possible. Probecore, T800 tank, engine. Start with that. Don't keep trying to send up a complete payload and launcher before you've learned the basics.

What is going on? Why can't I get this right? I tried the F+D option and wouldn't you know, it still over-corrected and turned past where I wanted it to! Nothing I'm doing is working.

Because you're refusing or unable to learn. You can't get it to work because you don't know how to, and you don't know how to because you're not learning the basics. Unless you absorb the basics you won't get anywhere.

The most basic rockets will go straight up without any control input and will be easy to control. Once you've learned how to use those you can move onto more advanced stuff. LV45 engine, T800 tank, probecore. Start there.

[Kevin W.]

On an unrelated subject, are the devs planning to fix the problem with radial attachments being so difficult to add? Why can't there just be a hardpoint on the separators and several on the sides of the tanks/rockets?

[Kevin W.]

That's not as basic as possible. Probecore, T800 tank, engine. Start with that. Don't keep trying to send up a complete payload and launcher before you've learned the basics.

I've already done the basic basics. That's what putzing around when I first bought the game was for.

[Cashen]

It could be a balancing thing. One thing I notice is that I only see a pair of RCS thrusters, with what I assume is a pair of monoprop tanks (The other one is likely behind the rocket, placed in 2x symmetry with the one visible).

Idealy you should have 4 RCS thrusters at the least, placed in 4x symmetry close to the center of mass. Because the center of mass moves as you burn fuel, I like to place two sets of 4 RCS thrusters, one near the top of the upper stage and one near the bottom. This will give you the most control. Because you're using probe cores, they have almost no torque, unlike the manned capsules, so RCS is needed to move around in space. In the atmosphere, I would suggest adding a couple of small winglets to the boosters, or the main core in 4x symmetry between the boosters.

Try to avoid single parts hanging off the side of your rocket. I see that antenna array on the one side. I think those things are pretty light but any mass not symmetrical about your thrust axis is going to cause it to be unstable.

[Nabiscovinco]

This design has SAS, not ASAS. SAS does not prevent spinning, but it is still fine. If the craft is spinning, just keep reseting SAS, and it should correct itself. Also, you may be going too fast, (not rocket wise, development wise). Gravity turning is a funny thing. A simple method to get to orbit is stay vertical, NO GRAVITY TURN, and stop when your AP gets to the right height (lets say 90k). Then, when you get to around 30ish seconds before AP, turn to the prograde marker, or make a node, and BURN. No gravity turn required!!! It takes some more fuel, but since this is a probe, it doesn't need to come back.

[stupid_chris]

-snip-

I don't get it. I built as basic a launcher as possible and it's not working. This one rotates during flight so by the time I'm up to 10KM, I'm not even aligned correctly to start burning for the apoapsis.

What is going on? Why can't I get this right? I tried the F+D option and wouldn't you know, it still over-corrected and turned past where I wanted it to! Nothing I'm doing is working.

You know what, I'm just gonna redirect you to a small craft I did earlier. This can get to any planet you want if you do it correctly.

It's a reliable craft, and it works, I tested it. You could try it out and see how it works.

Here, this is the best example of a non over-engineered launcher for a small payload.

[Kevin W.]

Maybe Johnno's right. I probably rushed through the really basic stuff. Maybe I need to go back to the start.

[Nabiscovinco]

Yeah, don't rush through things, especially when you get to the more advanced things like Mun landings. (I, for example, testing my landers at least 5 times, making small tweaks on the launch pad before a Mun mission).

But do not get discouraged; this is all part of the game.

Also, there is probably a Youtube video on everything, or a forum thread. A quick Google search solves most problems, don't forget that. For example, Youtube taught me how to dock.

[Kevin W.]

See, I'm going to go in the opposite direction. While I will land on the Mun eventually, I want my first big project to be putting a space station in orbit.

[stupid_chris]

See, I'm going to go in the opposite direction. While I will land on the Mun eventually, I want my first big project to be putting a space station in orbit.

well you should watch a few tutorials on how to rendez-vous and dock, it's quite complicated.

[Nabiscovinco]

Ok, I guess space programs go in different paths, but whatever.

But on the orbiting side of things, start slow, then go big. Remember, you need to first get a probe into orbit, then a single crew pod (and leave it stranded in orbit forever and ever) and get it back, then the three person crew pod. Each pod has different mechanics which makes each work differently in getting into orbit.

So practice practice practice. And watch some explosions

[Nabiscovinco]

well you should watch a few tutorials on how to rendez-vous and dock, it's quite complicated.

Yes, yes it is. But when you do practice, start with only small things, like crew pods. I try to fit the large RCS tank on my docking things because, well I stink at it, so I need the wiggle room.

[Kevin W.]

well you should watch a few tutorials on how to rendez-vous and dock, it's quite complicated.

Yep, I'm aware, and I'm going to need plenty of practice considering a significant portion of the station will require constant docking and un-docking and replacement docking. I'm going to build a fueling depot as part of the station and dock a bunch of tanks to the station (probably mostly using the dual oranges from UbioZur) which vehicles will dock to then take from the station to use as fuel for interplanetary voyages. That way, I can leave a really heavy portion of the vehicle off the launch pad and save some weight getting the actual vehicle into space. Then I'll simply launch a new tank assembly, dock it to the station and repeat the whole process when necessary.

Overly-ambitious? Possibly. Do-able? Definitely. It'll happen in time.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Kevin W.

[Kevin W.]

By the way, I added MechJeb. I'm still not using it yet for obvious reasons but how do I get the statistical readouts to come up in the VAB?

[Nabiscovinco]

What do you mean by sophisticated readouts? The ones from mechjeb or vanilla.

Mechjeb also does somethings weird, so make sure you know what is supposed to be happening without mechjeb when you actually use it.

[Kevin W.]

Doesn't MechJeb have a feature that shows the stats of a vehicle as it's being built in the VAB? I thought someone said that was a feature.

Anyway, I haven't started using MechJeb in earnest yet. I won't for quite some time.

[Cashen]

I've thought of going the space station route first when I re-start after 0.21. It's kind of a logical way to start off. The Soviets wanted to go that route as a more practical first step after getting men into space, and only decided to attempt going to the moon as a political thing to compete with the US. Going to the moon was a fantastic thing and all, but it was insanely expensive and there's a reason we later focused more on low earth orbit and things like the ISS, because they are more practical for our current level of technology.

And yes, when you slap a MechJeb controller on your craft in the VAB it will give you things like mass, thrust, delta-v of each stage. It's immensely useful. Even without using the autopilot features in flight, the info screens (Orbit info, surface info, delta-v, vessel info) are extremely helpful and in any real space program they are pieces of info you would have access to anyway.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Cashen

[Kevin W.]

Oh, it only shows up with the controller attached. That I did not know.