[1.0.5] TAC Life Support v0.11.2.1 [12Dec]

[InfinityArch]

I'd really like to use this mod, but there are two outstanding issues I see with it;

A. The current parts have rather ugly models; hopefully at some point a seasoned modeler might be able to help you out.

B. More importantly, there's no way to create a closed circle life support system, and this no way to have permanent off-world colonies. This also looks as if if'd make interplanetary missions quite difficult.

For the second issue what I'd suggest would be 5 modules for this purpose:

First would be a fuel cell module, which consumes liquid fuel and oxidizer to produce electricity and water.

Second would be the compressor/decompressor module, which can be used to convert oxidizer into breathable "oxium" (to use the Kerbal term for it), or vice-versa in the case of excess "oxium" supplies. Compressing oxium to oxidizer naturally uses a lot of electricity, while decompressing it consumes significantly less, only requiring you to heat the oxium to usable temperatures.

After that, we start getting into more advanced and long-term, but extremely heavy and power hungry life support systems capable of recycling the waste produced by kerbals.

The third part I had in mind would be the waste processing module, which would use electricity to recycle waste water into regular water plus solid waste which can be dumped or further defined.

The fourth module would be a waste processing module, which, with an input of electricity, converts waste into fertilizer.

The fifth and final of these life support related modules would be a hydroponics tank, which uses water, carbon dioxium, fertilizer derived from waste, and either sun exposure or electricity depending on the specific part used to produce food, oxium, and a refund of the water consumed by the module. This module would, unlike other life support systems, produce large amounts of its product at regular, albeit long intervals, rather than producing a steady trickle of product.

For the purposes of realism, I'd suggest introducing a small "leak" from the above cycle to represent inefficiencies, requiring either occasional resupply trips or utilization of locally available resources.

[goldenpeach]

I think that the three day worth of support in all pod is a little too much:I can make an apollo style munar mission without ading anything to my rocket designed in my main save(wich mean:without any life support added).

Is there a way to edit that quantity of life support worth?

Edited August 13, 2013 by goldenpeach

[sidfu]

the 3 days worth inside teh cabin is fine. this is to add some realism to the game not make it competely realistic.

@infinityarch there no such thing as a compeltly closed loop system right now. always there is lose at one part of it or another. on textures of cans they are fine. better to do textures last and have working mod than awsome textures and a half-assed mod.

[goldenpeach]

The three day is not realistic:the apollo command module(the pod) has only a few hours worth of life support.

[InfinityArch]

@sidfu: I'm aware of that, but as I said, there should be, for the purpose of realism, some inefficiencies that cause you to gradually loose resources in this life support model. Even if it's 10% lost per cycle, that's still 10x longer endurance for a vessel, which will make missions to Jool significantly more forgiving on life support budgets.

[Climberfx]

Great stuff, The complete perpetual circle will be perfect for long travels...

Edited August 27, 2013 by Climberfx

[InfinityArch]

@sidfu: I'm aware of that, but as I said, there should be, for the purpose of realism, some inefficiencies that cause you to gradually loose resources in this life support model. Even if it's 10% lost per cycle, that's still 10x longer endurance for a vessel, which will make missions to Jool significantly more forgiving on life support budgets.

[goldenpeach]

Is there a way to edit the amount of life support in the commands pods?

Even if there is no way to do that,it's a great mod that add some interesting challenge!

Edited August 14, 2013 by goldenpeach

[RuBisCO]

I believe "closed" cycles should be possible once on a planet and undertaking autonomous resource mining, Also virtually 100% closed cycles would make ark ships possible and as a matter of game play that would be fun, regardless if it arguable that no cycle could be 100% IRL.

[CoriW]

Hey I was just looking at this forum thread and an idea hit me, if the Co2 is stored onboard with any excess being dumped into space, what if instead you make an RCS system that uses that stored Co2 instead of MonoPropellant? Since theoretically it should work in a very similar manner since either way your spraying a gas out into space to maneuver.

[InfinityArch]

^ The problem with that is that mono-propellant RCS systems actually involve a reaction. Generally what happens is the mono-propellant is passed across a catalyst which causes it to energetically decompose.

[goldenpeach]

Some RCS are made from pressurized gas,also I think it would be kerbal to use the CO2 as a RCS fuel.

bill:"oh no! we're out of RCS,we can't dock with the CSM to return on kerbin!!!"

jeb:"breath,just breath"

[Starwaster]

Some RCS are made from pressurized gas,also I think it would be kerbal to use the CO2 as a RCS fuel.

bill:"oh no! we're out of RCS,we can't dock with the CSM to return on kerbin!!!"

jeb:"breath,just breath"

Or maybe Jeb takes one for the team by facing away from the direction they want to travel and opens up his helmet...

[goldenpeach]

I think jeb would make an EVA and use the "jetpack" to control the craft.

Good luck for docking that way!

[betaking]

I tend to think that perhaps capsules should have all the food they need to survive, but not the oxygen ect..

though its hard to say due to the the currently clunky and kinda inflexible nature of parts in the game.

(I for one hope we get some kind of in-game proceedural part maker, one that can make module exteriors and interiors, as well as the layer in between)

[nothke]

Ok, here's several things I'd like to add to this nice and promising mod:

- It's not about how much there is, it is about how much it's consumed. Don't forget that there are X buttons for resources, if you prevent them from running out, the mod will still think everything is ok cause the resource is still there.. Except it's not consumed, it's not flowing. The LS clock will stop. Practically Kerbals now live forever.

- Make the mod bound to the universal clock when leaving the craft. I don't know how hard is it to do this, but I guess it is possible. If your Kerbal is dying and you leave the craft and return, the clock will reset. There should be a way to run the clocks in the background. or at least mark the universal time when the clock runs out, and then on loading count if the Kerbals are dead now or not.

- If a Kerbal enters a craft that has no LS resources from EVA, there will be a message stating "there is no water/air/food", it's sort of strange cause the Kerbal had 12 hours of supplies during EVA and now has none.. If I were a Kerbonaut I'd put my helmet on and stay inside rather than being out on the radiation and micrometeoroid shower. So right now, it's better to stay outside than inside. This problem doesn't need to be tackled cause it's ok in Kerbalworld, but I'm just noting it's a bit silly

- In my opinion, solid waste should not be transported over pipes. It's solid isn't it? Now you can basically connect the KAS cable to a ship and transport solid waste over it from a tank to a tank. In my opinion, you should think more when handling solid waste instead, so that you need to make detachable tanks that you can fill up with waste and throw out later or use upcoming KASPAR racks to move the waste from ship to ship.

PS. I sent a message to TaranisElsu about modelling support, I'd like to help. Not sure if you've seen it =)

[kookoo_gr]

a question how many resources does a kerbal consume per day?

[Scotius]

I think it should be at most half of daily portion for a human. If i remember correctly it was calculated as (circa) 1,5 kilo of food, 2 liters of water. I don't remember how much oxygen a human uses in one day.

[InfinityArch]

So I just noticed the tanks from this plugin say things like "oxygen" and "carbon dioxide", when the kerbal terms for those chemicals are "oxium" and presumably "carbon dioxium".

[Moon Goddess]

So I just noticed the tanks from this plugin say things like "oxygen" and "carbon dioxide", when the kerbal terms for those chemicals are "oxium" and presumably "carbon dioxium".

I don't think we can assume that Oxium is just another word for oxygen. In the Kerbal universe water is made of Oxium and Propellium, and Propelliums doesn't operate in any way like hydrogen, closer to a hydrocarbon.

So I contend that the Kerbal universe has it's own chemistry, we know it's laws of physics are different than our dimension, clearly it's elements are too.

Edited August 15, 2013 by Moon Goddess

[InfinityArch]

^ How so? Propellium burning rockets have ISPs on par with LH2 rockets IRL, and there's no reason to assume it isn't stored cryogenically.

[CatastrophicFailure]

Quick question here, what effect will this mod have on existing FLIGHTS? I have several manned relay stations on the surface for remote tech that I don't really "maintain," or want to. Will installing this suddenly cause them to consume resources in the background?

[Crater]

Quick question here, what effect will this mod have on existing FLIGHTS? I have several manned relay stations on the surface for remote tech that I don't really "maintain," or want to. Will installing this suddenly cause them to consume resources in the background?

The bad news is that when you install the mod, all your existing crews develop a sudden interest in breathing, eating, and drinking.

The slightly better news is that, as it says in the OP

[*]Kerbals will not start requiring resources until the first time that you focus the vessel, or get close enough that it loads -- within the 2.3 km load distance.

Which means that once you install it, don't load any craft in flight until you're docking their first resupply vessel with them.... and resupply EVERYONE.

[alexustas]

Hi,

i make 2 samples of tanks: radial and stack mounted

if you need, i can make complete set of different tanks in same design for crew supply.

P.S. Sorry my English ))

[snapsi]

if you need, i can make complete set of different tanks in same design for crew supply.

These look great - please do!