[1.0.5] TAC Life Support v0.11.2.1 [12Dec]

[yeliabmit]

I decided to retexture some stock parts for use as TAC resource containers...

These look good! I'll be watching for the release...

[Taki117]

I decided to retexture some stock parts for use as TAC resource containers. These are very much WIP so no downloads, but here's a screenshot of the progress so far:

SNIP

Those look really good, are you planning on making an all in one container as well?

[kiwiak]

I decided to retexture some stock parts for use as TAC resource containers. These are very much WIP so no downloads, but here's a screenshot of the progress so far:

http://i.imgur.com/k9MyjTz.png

The containers hold 30 and 240 units but I might make one-size larger if the models/textures hold. The shielded solar panel holds 2 of each resource, intended for early career-mode hops to the Mun or Minmus. Larger, inline containers are planned so you won't have to spam your station/ships with tanks or babysit them with weekly milk-runs from Kerbin. And finally I'm working on converters using welded, retextured parts because no one wants to lug 5 Kerbal-years' worth of life support out to Duna.

Looking forward to it (and i hope that athor will include these textures into mod), but have you considered retexturing some other models from mods? KAS parts containers looks nice, for example.

Near future propulsions have some neat spherical tanks too.

[somnambulist]

Those look really good, are you planning on making an all in one container as well?

Yeah but probably only as 2.5m inline parts, one short part for command modules and another part for longer trips, as resupply for stations, etc. My goal with this project is to get a bare minimum of modular parts to support TAC Life Support and let the player design mission-specific solutions using multiple parts and tweakables. I'm going to do higher capacity modules as welded subassemblies of tanks to keep part counts from killing peoples' games.

Looking forward to it (and i hope that athor will include these textures into mod), but have you considered retexturing some other models from mods? KAS parts containers looks nice, for example.

Those are great parts and I use them in my own game, but the models don't quite have the stock aesthetic I'm looking for. Adding a whole other line of radial parts adds variety but no real functionality and makes balancing the parts that much more difficult. That said, the small tanks will be grabable with KAS letting you reconfigure life support capacity after launch or even transfer resources between crafts without docking ports or KAS hardware. The larger tanks look silly when strapped to a Kerbal's back, but I might make those grab-able as it opens up some neat playability. (e.g., parachuting in a resupply module to Duna, picking up the tanks with a rover and bringing them back to base.)

I'll have more time to work on these Friday night (UT -6) and should have at least the radial tanks ready for testing later this weekend. When that happens I'll start a new thread in Add-On development to avoid cluttering up the main TAC thread.

[kiwiak]

Well, if tanks are to big for kerbal to grab, you still have robotic arms.

[somnambulist]

Well, if tanks are to big for kerbal to grab, you still have robotic arms.

I don't use any of the robotic arms -- does that actually work with KAS?

[Matrix Aran]

So a strange issue I'm having with 0.8.0.4: I've installed the mod for the first time today and tried to use it with an existing career mode save. The mod starts up without a problem, and the build helper even shows up in the VAB. However, at launch, the life support monitor does not show up, and the resources are not consumed. I can put a one man capsule in orbit for a year and Jeb keeps on smiling.

To check to see if it was just the save, I went and loaded another career mode save I have. It too refuses to consume resources in flight.

However, I can load any existing sandbox save and it will function correctly. I can also start a new career mode or sandbox save and it will function correctly.

The other major plugin mods I'm using are RemoteTech 2, FAR, Mechjeb 2, Deadly Re-entry, Kethane, Kerbal Alarm Clock, Interstellar, and Kerbal Engineer Redux. As suggested to a previous poster who had a similar problem but never replied further after requests for more information, I've checked the debug log. On the launch pad, the only line from TAC Lifesupport that I can find is the following:

[Log]: Tac.LifeSupportModule[FFF63AB2][447.86]: OnStart: PreLaunch, Landed

Other than that line, there are no other lines from TAC.

[Bobnova]

I'm really enjoying this mod so far, and have not had any issues with it.

One thing I'm curious about: Would it be possible to add a "dump supplies" option?

My situation is this: I got a Kerbal to Dres, landed, had 500odd days of supplies left, and am ~200m/s short getting home. Being able to toss 350 days worth of supplies would give me the DV I need, as it's a significant portion of the current vessel weight.

I'd love to be able to EVA the dude, pull out a ton of misc. supplies, dump them on Dres (or have them magically disappear, whatever), and be able to get back to Kerbin without a rescue mission.

I can think of a couple ways to build a ship with detachable life support containers, but that in itself would add a fair amount of weight.

[Dwight_js]

So a strange issue I'm having with 0.8.0.4: I've installed the mod for the first time today and tried to use it with an existing career mode save. The mod starts up without a problem, and the build helper even shows up in the VAB. However, at launch, the life support monitor does not show up, and the resources are not consumed. I can put a one man capsule in orbit for a year and Jeb keeps on smiling.

To check to see if it was just the save, I went and loaded another career mode save I have. It too refuses to consume resources in flight.

I'm having the exact same problem. I've got similar other mods installed: RemoteTech 2, Deadly Re-entry, Kethane, Kerbal Alarm Clock, Interstellar, and Kerbal Engineer Redux.

I had a look in the ksp.log and found the following entries:

[LOG 19:24:25.233] Tac.TacLifeSupport[FFFDBA90][80.05]: Constructor

[LOG 19:24:25.235] Tac.TacLifeSupport[FFFDBA90][80.05]: OnAwake in SPACECENTER

[LOG 19:24:25.236] Tac.TacLifeSupport[FFFDBA90][80.05]: Adding SpaceCenterManager

[LOG 19:24:25.237] Tac.SpaceCenterManager[FFFDBA8C][80.05]: Constructor

[LOG 19:24:25.238] Tac.ToolbarButton[][80.05]: Could not find Toolbar.dll.

[LOG 19:24:25.238] Tac.ButtonWrapper[C3CBFD80][80.05]: Failed to create the toolbar button, using my Icon instead.

[LOG 19:24:25.255] Tac.AddLifeSupport[FD0B7D00][80.05]: Adding resources to kerbalEVA/

[ERR 19:24:25.256] Tac.AddLifeSupport[FD0B7D00][80.05]: Error adding the part module to EVA (expected?): Object reference not set to an instance of an object

at Part.AddModule (System.String moduleName) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at Part.AddModule (.ConfigNode node) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at Tac.AddLifeSupport.EvaAddPartModule (.Part part) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

[ERR 19:24:25.257] Tac.AddLifeSupport[FD0B7D00][80.05]: Failed to add resource ElectricCharge to EVA: Object reference not set to an instance of an object

at Tac.AddLifeSupport.EvaAddResource (.Part part, Double rate, System.String name, Boolean full) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

[ERR 19:24:25.259] Tac.AddLifeSupport[FD0B7D00][80.05]: Failed to add resource Food to EVA: Object reference not set to an instance of an object

at Tac.AddLifeSupport.EvaAddResource (.Part part, Double rate, System.String name, Boolean full) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

[ERR 19:24:25.260] Tac.AddLifeSupport[FD0B7D00][80.05]: Failed to add resource Water to EVA: Object reference not set to an instance of an object

at Tac.AddLifeSupport.EvaAddResource (.Part part, Double rate, System.String name, Boolean full) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

[ERR 19:24:25.261] Tac.AddLifeSupport[FD0B7D00][80.05]: Failed to add resource Oxygen to EVA: Object reference not set to an instance of an object

at Tac.AddLifeSupport.EvaAddResource (.Part part, Double rate, System.String name, Boolean full) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

[ERR 19:24:25.262] Tac.AddLifeSupport[FD0B7D00][80.05]: Failed to add resource CarbonDioxide to EVA: Object reference not set to an instance of an object

at Tac.AddLifeSupport.EvaAddResource (.Part part, Double rate, System.String name, Boolean full) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

[ERR 19:24:25.263] Tac.AddLifeSupport[FD0B7D00][80.05]: Failed to add resource Waste to EVA: Object reference not set to an instance of an object

at Tac.AddLifeSupport.EvaAddResource (.Part part, Double rate, System.String name, Boolean full) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

[ERR 19:24:25.264] Tac.AddLifeSupport[FD0B7D00][80.05]: Failed to add resource WasteWater to EVA: Object reference not set to an instance of an object

at Tac.AddLifeSupport.EvaAddResource (.Part part, Double rate, System.String name, Boolean full) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

Edited January 6, 2014 by Dwight_js

[somnambulist]

Progress update on my parts pack:

(Full Res)

I wasn't happy with the hodgepodge of tank models and decided to standardize on the Mystery Goo container for all radial tanks. Resource name has been de-emphasized in favor of color-coded accent colors (brown = food, dark blue = water, aqua = oxygen) and a subtle resource icon on each tank. I also put together a 2.5m multiple resource container (ladders are welded into the part for safety because Kerbals haven't invented rope yet).

These still need another balancing pass:

              Dry Mass       Kerbal Days*  Mass/Day
-------------------------------------------------
Small Radial     .08            10          .008
Large Radial     .15            90          .002
Multi Inline    5.50          1080          .005

* Kerbal Days (KD) are the amount of the resource consumed by one Kerbal in a 6hr Kerbin day. (TaranisElsu's 24 hour tick doesn't make sense in-universe to me.)

Three of the large radial tanks (full set of life support) have the same Dry Mass/Day as the inline tank. The inline tank should be a bit heavier to encourage careful mission planning.

Hopefully this week I'll have time to put together a quick release of the tanks you see in the screenshot. Converters are coming but they might not be ready until sometime next week or the week after.

Planned/to do:

• Converters and converter balancing. There should a choice between taking the converters or just packing more supplies.
  
• More containers. Need something at 540KD and possibly 30KD.
  
• Someone asked for a way to jettison waste and supplies. That should be possible.
  
• Waste tank.
  
• An off-shoot that doesn't require TAC LS but will use its resources if present . No specifics yet because I'm not sure how well (or if) it will work. If it does, there'll be 1-2 main parts plus some accessories.
  

[Read have Read]

I'm really enjoying this mod so far, and have not had any issues with it.

One thing I'm curious about: Would it be possible to add a "dump supplies" option?

My situation is this: I got a Kerbal to Dres, landed, had 500odd days of supplies left, and am ~200m/s short getting home. Being able to toss 350 days worth of supplies would give me the DV I need, as it's a significant portion of the current vessel weight.

I'd love to be able to EVA the dude, pull out a ton of misc. supplies, dump them on Dres (or have them magically disappear, whatever), and be able to get back to Kerbin without a rescue mission.

I can think of a couple ways to build a ship with detachable life support containers, but that in itself would add a fair amount of weight.

I think TAC fuel balancer has this option. Partless, so installing mid-flight should work.

[Paul Kingtiger]

Progress update on my parts pack...

Looking great! Do you have any plans for a 1.25m inline container?

[Krevsin]

Progress update on my parts pack

That looks absolutely fantastic! I can't wait to see more.

[somnambulist]

Looking great! Do you have any plans for a 1.25m inline container?

Yeah that needs to happen and will probably be enough to increase the endurance on the 1.25m parts to 30 KD. Same part/texture might then get upscaled for a 540KD 2.5m part.

[Dwight_js]

Well, I just did a clean re-install of KSP, installed just TAC, and it still won't consume resources in Career Mode. Does anyone have any guesses as to what's going on? (see post 635 above for details from my ksp.log file)

Turns out that Kerbals on EVA do consume the resources in career mode, but once back in the capsule the consumption stops.

Edited January 7, 2014 by Dwight_js

[Dwight_js]

Just a friendly little bump

[Desrtfox]

I was wondering if Taranis would comment on the possibility of adding something like comfort into TAC Life Support. I'd be happy to do the grunt work of the addition, if you, Taranis, thought it would be ok.

What I'd like to see/do is implement a resource like comfort or sanity perhaps that's dependent on the amount of living space available to each Kerbal. The idea would be to make a compelling reason to implement habitat space and modules like the Wetworks tanks/habs and the inflatable habs.

My thinking would be a fixed resource based on the volume of living space available to each Kerbal. This resource would be consumed over time based on the number of Kerbals on board. In a more complex implementation, perhaps the consumption rate could be slowed slightly from multiple Kerbals on board, such that the rate is not quite a linear consumption per Kerbal - to allow for larger occupancy vessels. Also in a more complex implementation, there might be a maximum volume necessary for full comfort, such that the Kerbals onboard never run out of comfort.

In between though, or in a low complexity implementation, Kerbals would eventually, if put on long missions with very little living space, use up their comfort. I was thinking of perhaps a way to make ship maneuvering/functioning less reliable as the Kerbal comfort drops to simulate their distraction/inattention, but an reason that could be used to make the loss of comfort meaningful would be fine.

Anyway, I'd be willing to do the work on this, if you thought it's be a nice thing to have in TAC life support, even as an option perhaps.

Edited January 7, 2014 by Desrtfox

[diomedea]

...the possibility of adding something like comfort into TAC Life Support. I'd be happy to do the grunt work of the addition, ...

The above is, in a way, similar to the idea of "stress" I pushed some time ago. IRT comfort, the lack of it would be one of the causes for stress, and I still want to see that implemented, together with a range of other variables that effect how kerbals would act and be proficient during a mission. Comfort, or stress, would be just one value to be considered in Life Support, but to be managed in one or more other mods.

[somnambulist]

I was wondering if Taranis would comment on the possibility of adding something like comfort into TAC Life Support. I'd be happy to do the grunt work of the addition, if you, Taranis, thought it would be ok.

Heyyyyyy.... This sounds familiar Like how you've fleshed it out. Decay needs to increase if the living space/kerbal is bow a certain amount, and there should be a modifier for MET.

[TheRequimen]

The above is, in a way, similar to the idea of "stress" I pushed some time ago. IRT comfort, the lack of it would be one of the causes for stress, and I still want to see that implemented, together with a range of other variables that effect how kerbals would act and be proficient during a mission. Comfort, or stress, would be just one value to be considered in Life Support, but to be managed in one or more other mods.

Dwarf Fortress, KSP style?

[Whitecold]

What I'd like to see/do is implement a resource like comfort or sanity perhaps that's dependent on the amount of living space available to each Kerbal. The idea would be to make a compelling reason to implement habitat space and modules like the Wetworks tanks/habs and the inflatable habs.

I really like the idea, but the implementation as resource breaks down as soon as you can switch ships. If you exchange your crew, the new ones shouldn't start stressed out. It would have to be tracked per Kerbonaut, not per Vessel, as currently all resources are.

[kiwiak]

I really like the idea, but the implementation as resource breaks down as soon as you can switch ships. If you exchange your crew, the new ones shouldn't start stressed out. It would have to be tracked per Kerbonaut, not per Vessel, as currently all resources are.

Comfort coudl be calculated for each kerbal, and ship resources coudl show avarage value per whole ship.

I also think that distance from kerbin shoudl be implemented (farther away, kerbals miss home more ), quality of communication equipment onboard (better antennas, kerbals can have higher quality communication with home), boredoom (doing interesting things like eva, succesfull landing on planets momentarly increases comfort). And docking with other ship and meeting other kerbals shoudl give huge morale boost!

[Desrtfox]

I really like the idea, but the implementation as resource breaks down as soon as you can switch ships. If you exchange your crew, the new ones shouldn't start stressed out. It would have to be tracked per Kerbonaut, not per Vessel, as currently all resources are.

Interesting point.

As a counterpoint, perhaps just a simple implementation is better than nothing. And, you could make the case that a well used ship might be less comfortable than a new (and clean) one.

I will think about how you might be able to make some accommodation for per Kerbal tracking, but from a basic gameplay standpoint, I still think it makes a fair amount of sense to track it by ship especially because this is relatively easier and it serves the purpose of making living space, and the modules that provide it, more valuable.

[TaranisElsu]

I decided to retexture some stock parts for use as TAC resource containers.

Let me know when you are finished and I will add a link in the OP.

I was wondering if Taranis would comment on the possibility of adding something like comfort into TAC Life Support.

The above is, in a way, similar to the idea of "stress" I pushed some time ago.

The big question is: what should happen if a Kerbal is over-"stressed" or runs out of "comfort"? Should the Kerbal die? Should the vessel become uncontrollable? Should the Kerbal kill a different Kerbal? Should the Kerbal eat all the snacks? Should a delay be added to control inputs? Make "maneuvering/functioning" be "less reliable"?

I would like to add a "living space" metric, and require you to build rockets with enough space when launching long missions, but the issue remains: what are the consequences?

I really like the idea, but the implementation as resource breaks down as soon as you can switch ships. If you exchange your crew, the new ones shouldn't start stressed out. It would have to be tracked per Kerbonaut, not per Vessel, as currently all resources are.

Actually... food and water are currently tracked per Kerbal. Oxygen and Electricity are the only ones that are tracked per vessel, and that is because they both affect "air quality." Food and water had to be tracked per Kerbal so that they would remain hungry/thirsty if they went on EVA (which is a different "vessel").

[TaranisElsu]

So a strange issue I'm having with 0.8.0.4: I've installed the mod for the first time today and tried to use it with an existing career mode save. The mod starts up without a problem, and the build helper even shows up in the VAB. However, at launch, the life support monitor does not show up, and the resources are not consumed. I can put a one man capsule in orbit for a year and Jeb keeps on smiling.

To check to see if it was just the save, I went and loaded another career mode save I have. It too refuses to consume resources in flight.

However, I can load any existing sandbox save and it will function correctly. I can also start a new career mode or sandbox save and it will function correctly.

The other major plugin mods I'm using are RemoteTech 2, FAR, Mechjeb 2, Deadly Re-entry, Kethane, Kerbal Alarm Clock, Interstellar, and Kerbal Engineer Redux. As suggested to a previous poster who had a similar problem but never replied further after requests for more information, I've checked the debug log. On the launch pad, the only line from TAC Lifesupport that I can find is the following:

[Log]: Tac.LifeSupportModule[FFF63AB2][447.86]: OnStart: PreLaunch, Landed

Other than that line, there are no other lines from TAC.

From your description, my first thought is that it is turned off. Please double check the settings window in the Space Center scene to make sure that it is enabled. Also, does the icon show in the Flight scene? And are you using the Toolbar mod? Bring up the Life Support Monitoring window by clicking the icon. Is the current vessel listed after launching?

And please, please, please upload your entire log file somewhere that I can look at it. Sometimes the problem occurs earlier than where the symptom shows up and in the case of mod conflicts, may not be near any of the logging for my mod.

In your case, please also upload your persistent.sfs file so that I can double check the settings that are saved there.

Also, which OS are you using? Windows/OSX/Linux?

I'm having the exact same problem. I've got similar other mods installed: RemoteTech 2, Deadly Re-entry, Kethane, Kerbal Alarm Clock, Interstellar, and Kerbal Engineer Redux.

I had a look in the ksp.log and found the following entries:

[LOG 19:24:25.233] Tac.TacLifeSupport[FFFDBA90][80.05]: Constructor

[LOG 19:24:25.235] Tac.TacLifeSupport[FFFDBA90][80.05]: OnAwake in SPACECENTER

[LOG 19:24:25.236] Tac.TacLifeSupport[FFFDBA90][80.05]: Adding SpaceCenterManager

[LOG 19:24:25.237] Tac.SpaceCenterManager[FFFDBA8C][80.05]: Constructor

[LOG 19:24:25.238] Tac.ToolbarButton[][80.05]: Could not find Toolbar.dll.

[LOG 19:24:25.238] Tac.ButtonWrapper[C3CBFD80][80.05]: Failed to create the toolbar button, using my Icon instead.

[LOG 19:24:25.255] Tac.AddLifeSupport[FD0B7D00][80.05]: Adding resources to kerbalEVA/

[ERR 19:24:25.256] Tac.AddLifeSupport[FD0B7D00][80.05]: Error adding the part module to EVA (expected?): Object reference not set to an instance of an object

at Part.AddModule (System.String moduleName) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at Part.AddModule (.ConfigNode node) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at Tac.AddLifeSupport.EvaAddPartModule (.Part part) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

[ERR 19:24:25.257] Tac.AddLifeSupport[FD0B7D00][80.05]: Failed to add resource ElectricCharge to EVA: Object reference not set to an instance of an object

at Tac.AddLifeSupport.EvaAddResource (.Part part, Double rate, System.String name, Boolean full) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

[ERR 19:24:25.259] Tac.AddLifeSupport[FD0B7D00][80.05]: Failed to add resource Food to EVA: Object reference not set to an instance of an object

at Tac.AddLifeSupport.EvaAddResource (.Part part, Double rate, System.String name, Boolean full) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

[ERR 19:24:25.260] Tac.AddLifeSupport[FD0B7D00][80.05]: Failed to add resource Water to EVA: Object reference not set to an instance of an object

at Tac.AddLifeSupport.EvaAddResource (.Part part, Double rate, System.String name, Boolean full) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

[ERR 19:24:25.261] Tac.AddLifeSupport[FD0B7D00][80.05]: Failed to add resource Oxygen to EVA: Object reference not set to an instance of an object

at Tac.AddLifeSupport.EvaAddResource (.Part part, Double rate, System.String name, Boolean full) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

[ERR 19:24:25.262] Tac.AddLifeSupport[FD0B7D00][80.05]: Failed to add resource CarbonDioxide to EVA: Object reference not set to an instance of an object

at Tac.AddLifeSupport.EvaAddResource (.Part part, Double rate, System.String name, Boolean full) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

[ERR 19:24:25.263] Tac.AddLifeSupport[FD0B7D00][80.05]: Failed to add resource Waste to EVA: Object reference not set to an instance of an object

at Tac.AddLifeSupport.EvaAddResource (.Part part, Double rate, System.String name, Boolean full) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

[ERR 19:24:25.264] Tac.AddLifeSupport[FD0B7D00][80.05]: Failed to add resource WasteWater to EVA: Object reference not set to an instance of an object

at Tac.AddLifeSupport.EvaAddResource (.Part part, Double rate, System.String name, Boolean full) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

Well, I just did a clean re-install of KSP, installed just TAC, and it still won't consume resources in Career Mode. Does anyone have any guesses as to what's going on? (see post 635 above for details from my ksp.log file)

Turns out that Kerbals on EVA do consume the resources in career mode, but once back in the capsule the consumption stops.

For you also: please, please, please upload your entire log file somewhere that I can look at it. Sometimes the problem occurs earlier than where the symptom shows up and in the case of mod conflicts, may not be near any of the logging for my mod.

The errors you included are a known problem. The game is throwing an exception, but it still seems to be working anyway ...

Questions:

• Are you seeing the life support icon in the flight scene? I notice that you are not using the toolbar mod, so it should just be an individual button somewhere along the screen edge.
  
• Did you launch the vessel? The mod does not consume any resources until after launch so that you can timewarp to your launch window without worrying about the crew.
  
• Bring up the Life Support Monitoring window by clicking the icon. Is the current vessel listed (after launching)?
  
• Which OS are you using? Windows/OSX/Linux? Your log file is different from mine, so I assume you are not using Windows.