[1.0.5] TAC Life Support v0.11.2.1 [12Dec]

[lextacy]

Hoping someone else here could shed some light on an issue i'm having...

basically whenever I time warp, electric charge practically depletes itself right away, as soon as i come back to normal speed it will slowly regenerate as it would. What is fustrating i'll have a full battery, set it to time warp and depending on how much electric charge i have availible, TAC LS will stop the my time warp every 10-20 seconds because electric charge will deplete to zero almost instantly. Its not an issue i have seen before so I am hoping someone might have idea of what i'm talking about and perhaps have a solution unless this is intended.

sounds normal ? It happens to me too. If you are running out of food/oxy ect. the game will slow down your warp to warn you

[Kerbas_ad_astra]

I'd like to see TAC-LS move a bit more towards MKS/OKS balance in terms of mass required per day per Kerbal. Make it less trivial to ship up 3 years of food/water/O2 for 10 kerbals. Maybe the containers end up weighing more and/or hold a bit less.

The thing is, TAC-LS's numbers are based on scaling human needs to the sizes of Kerbals. We can already pack a lot of calories into a small number of kilograms of food, and because Kerbals are smaller, they need even less (a quarter as much, if I recall the chosen scaling factor correctly). It's a little funny that you say you want this mod to be more like MKS/OKS because MKS/OKS builds its recyclers around this system (though I've seen RoverDude mentioning that he wants to make a USI life support mod, so we'll see what that turns out to be like).

I suppose you could increase the dry mass of the supply tanks to increase the difficulty without tinkering with underlying assumptions or balances.

[Crzyrndm]

The running out of resources even though you have excess generation bit sounds like storage is being capped (you need enough storage for the amount of resource per physics tick even if you use them instantly, timewarp drastically increases that storage requirement because the game time per tick is proportional to warp rate)

[MatterBeam]

TACLS Declutter

TACLS Declutter condenses thirty resource containers down to two tweakable, resizable containers.

http://i.imgur.com/JWHbGE2.png

Requirements

• ModuleManager
  
• FireSpitter (DLL only)
  
• TweakScale
  

Safety First

You can safely use TACLS Declutter with an existing save -- the default TACLS containers are hidden in the editor and tech tree but the actual parts are still in the game. Craft built after TACLS Declutter is installed will break if it's removed.

Known Issues

• The waste containers start filled. You need to manually empty the contents in the editor.
  
• All containers are based on the 1.25m or 1x sizes. The resources in scaled containers might vary from the stock TACLS equivalents. Plan accordingly.
  

Please let me know if you encounter any problems.

// TACLS Declutter by Somnambulist v.1 2014-11-02
// =====================================================================
// Simplifies TAC LS' containers down to two parts. Requires FireSpitter
// for resource/texture switching and TweakScale for scaling.
// License: The MIT License (MIT) http://opensource.org/licenses/MIT
// =====================================================================

+PART[HexCanLifeSupport]:NEEDS[TacLifeSupport]
{
    @name = HexCanConfigurableTACLifeSupport
    @title = TACLS HexCan

    @description = A configurable hexagonal canister for holding Life Support products.

    !RESOURCE[Food] {}
    !RESOURCE[Water] {}
    !RESOURCE[Oxygen] {}

    @MODEL,0 {
    !texture,0 =
    }

    MODULE
    {
        name = FStextureSwitch2
        objectNames = Canister
        nextButtonText = Next Canister
        prevButtonText = Previous Canister
        textureRootFolder = ThunderAerospace/TacLifeSupportHexCans/
        textureNames = HexCanLifeSupport/Texture;HexCanFood/Texture;HexCanBreathingOxygen/Texture;HexCanDrinkingWater/Texture;HexCanWaste/WasteTexture;
        textureDisplayNames = Life Support;Food;Oxygen;Water;Waste;
        useFuelSwitchModule = true
        fuelTankSetups = 0;1;2;3;4;
        showInfo = true
    }

    MODULE
    {
        name = FSfuelSwitch
        resourceNames = Oxygen,Water,Food;Food;Oxygen;Water;Waste,WasteWater,CarbonDioxide;
        resourceAmounts = 6211.2,40.5,61.3;130;28747.5;130;10.5,98,10183.4;
        displayCurrentTankCost = true
        hasGUI = false
        showInfo = false
    }

    MODULE
    {
        name = TweakScale
        type = surface
           freeScale = false
           defaultScale = 1.0
        scaleFactors = .5, 1.0, 2.0, 4.0
        scaleNames = 50%, 100%, 200%, 400%
        techRequired = survivability, survivability, heavyRocketry, experimentalRocketry
    }
}

@PART[HexCan*]:HAS[#author[*Taranis*]]
{
    @category = -1
    @subcategory = 0
    @TechRequired = unresearchable
}

@PART[HexCanConfigurableTACLifeSupport]:NEEDS[TacLifeSupport]:FINAL
{
    @category = Utility
    @subcategory = 0
    @TechRequired = survivability
}

+PART[TacLifeSupportContainer]:NEEDS[TacLifeSupport]
{
    @name = ContainerConfigurableTACLifeSupport
    @title = TACLS Container

    @description = A configurable container for holding Life Support products.

    !RESOURCE[Food] {}
    !RESOURCE[Water] {}
    !RESOURCE[Oxygen] {}

    @MODEL,0 {
    !texture,0 =
    }

    MODULE
    {
        name = FStextureSwitch2
        objectNames = MyContainer
        nextButtonText = Next Container
        prevButtonText = Previous Container
        textureRootFolder = ThunderAerospace/TacLifeSupportContainers/
        textureNames = Texture;FoodTexture;OxygenTexture;WaterTexture;WasteTexture;
        textureDisplayNames = Life Support;Food;Oxygen;Water;Waste;
        useFuelSwitchModule = true
        fuelTankSetups = 0;1;2;3;4;
        showInfo = true
    }

    MODULE
    {
        name = FSfuelSwitch
        resourceNames = Oxygen,Water,Food;Food;Oxygen;Water;Waste,WasteWater,CarbonDioxide;
        resourceAmounts = 6211.2,40.5,61.3;240;53072.3;240;19.5,180.9,18800.1;
        displayCurrentTankCost = true
        hasGUI = false
        showInfo = false
    }

    MODULE
    {
        name = TweakScale
        type = stack
           techRequired = survivability, survivability, heavyRocketry, veryHeavyRocketry, experimentalRocketry
    }
}

@PART[Tac*Container*]:HAS[#author[*Taranis*]]
{
    @category = -1
    @subcategory = 0
    @TechRequired = unresearchable
}

@PART[ContainerConfigurableTACLifeSupport]:NEEDS[TacLifeSupport]:FINAL
{
    @category = Utility
    @subcategory = 0
    @TechRequired = survivability
}

I've looked everywhere. HOW DO I DOWNLOAD THIS?

[Mecripp]

Here you go https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/72893034/TACLS_Declutter.cfg.zip you still need to download FireSpitter, Tweakscale plugins.

[Kerbas_ad_astra]

I've looked everywhere. HOW DO I DOWNLOAD THIS?

You copy and paste that code into a ".cfg" text file (as MeCripp has done). That's the power of ModuleManager!

[doglatine]

Hey guys! Just an issue I'm running into in my current game. Basically, I like three things -

• TAC Life Support! Yay! Thanks Taranis, awesome mod!
  
• Having multiple planetary bases/space stations.
  
• Conducting long range missions to Eeloo, Jool, and more.
  

The problem should be obvious - given that interplanetary trips can take years and years, that means I have to do a large number of resupply missions. I don't mind an occasional one, but just ferrying supplies back and forth to the same bases gets dull. I know MKS/OKS allow for self-sustaining bases and stations, but I'm not quite at that level of fandom yet (I have a doctorate to finish...). What I've been doing is just disabling TAC life support during the big long timewarps - e.g., waiting for transfer windows, and waiting for craft to arrive. But that's immersion breaking, and it also feels cheaty if I have manned interplanetary probes.

What would be ideal is to disable TAC for any craft that's classified as a base or a station. Can I do this? (My justification is this: my space program would contract out routine missions like that to third parties, Orbital Sciences/Space X style).

[WuphonsReach]

For longer missions, you should look into the various TAC-LS parts that recycle CO2 into O2 and waste water into fresh water (see also MunSeeker's greenhouse). If you can get 70-90% efficiency on recycling, you've just cut your resupply mission requirement drastically.

[WuphonsReach]

I've been noodling on the size / dry mass / capacity balance issues for a while. So I'm going to pick apart the Life Support Supplies container:

[TABLE=width: 620]

[TR]

[TD]Life Support Supplies:[/TD]

[TD]Mass (dry)[/TD]

[TD]Mass (wet)[/TD]

[TD]wet/dry[/TD]

[TD]Days[/TD]

[TD]D/kg(net)[/TD]

[TD]D/kg(wet)[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Hex (Small)[/TD]

[TD=align: right]30[/TD]

[TD=align: right]38[/TD]

[TD=align: right]1.27[/TD]

[TD=align: right]20.6[/TD]

[TD=align: right]2.58[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0.542[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Hex[/TD]

[TD=align: right]120[/TD]

[TD=align: right]186[/TD]

[TD=align: right]1.55[/TD]

[TD=align: right]168[/TD]

[TD=align: right]2.55[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0.903[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Hex Large)[/TD]

[TD=align: right]380[/TD]

[TD=align: right]912[/TD]

[TD=align: right]2.40[/TD]

[TD=align: right]1342[/TD]

[TD=align: right]2.52[/TD]

[TD=align: right]1.471[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Inline (Small, 62.5cm)[/TD]

[TD=align: right]40[/TD]

[TD=align: right]53[/TD]

[TD=align: right]1.33[/TD]

[TD=align: right]32[/TD]

[TD=align: right]2.46[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0.604[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Inline (125cm)[/TD]

[TD=align: right]200[/TD]

[TD=align: right]323[/TD]

[TD=align: right]1.62[/TD]

[TD=align: right]310[/TD]

[TD=align: right]2.52[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0.960[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Inline (Large, 250cm)[/TD]

[TD=align: right]750[/TD]

[TD=align: right]1876[/TD]

[TD=align: right]2.50[/TD]

[TD=align: right]2840[/TD]

[TD=align: right]2.52[/TD]

[TD=align: right]1.514[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

The main issue that I have is that it's too trivial (subjective impression) to put up tens of hundreds of days of supplies into orbit for a single kerbal and never have to use greenhouse / recyclers except for missions lasting more then 5-10 years. My impression is that the capacity (in liters) of the various containers needs to be chopped by 3x-4x.

Liters per day for a life support container is about 0.774 liters/day (O2+H2O+Food) according to your spreadsheet:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aioc9ek3XAvwdGNsRlh3OVhlbTFBR3M4RW0zLUNTRFE&usp=sharing#gid=0

The numbers are fine, but I feel that the capacity per container is simply too large when you add in things like structure / compartments / cooling / heating / power / tubing.

For instance, the smallest hex can can keep a single kerbal alive for about 20.6 days due to the internal volume being too good (16.25). I would suggest changing that to be far less efficient, with a capacity of only 4 liters. That cuts the supply time for a single kerbal from 20.6 down to about 5.1 days. Dry mass would be 30kg, wet mass would be 32kg.

The medium hex can (32 liters storage) would be targeted at 40 days (instead of 168 days), the large hex can (256 liters) would be 332d vs 1342d.

For the inline containers, changing the smallest one to only hold 8 liters of supplies would give 10.3 days of endurance for a single Kerbal. That's a pretty reasonable number and good for a small landing pod that is only going to spend a few days on the surface.

The medium (125cm) inline container currently holds 240 liters of supplies out of 307 liters size, cutting the useful capacity to just 64 liters changes it to only holding 83 days of supplies.

The large container could be changed to only hold 512 liters of supplies, giving 661 days of supplies for a single kerbal.

[TABLE=width: 684]

[TR]

[TD]Life Support Supplies:[/TD]

[TD]Mass (dry)[/TD]

[TD]Mass (wet)[/TD]

[TD]wet/dry[/TD]

[TD]Days[/TD]

[TD]D/kg(net)[/TD]

[TD]D/kg(wet)[/TD]

[TD]Liters[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Hex (Small)[/TD]

[TD=align: right]30[/TD]

[TD=align: right]32.049[/TD]

[TD=align: right]1.07[/TD]

[TD=align: right]5.2[/TD]

[TD=align: right]2.52[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0.161[/TD]

[TD=align: right]4[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Hex[/TD]

[TD=align: right]120[/TD]

[TD=align: right]136.392[/TD]

[TD=align: right]1.14[/TD]

[TD=align: right]41.3[/TD]

[TD=align: right]2.52[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0.303[/TD]

[TD=align: right]32[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Hex Large)[/TD]

[TD=align: right]380[/TD]

[TD=align: right]511.140[/TD]

[TD=align: right]1.35[/TD]

[TD=align: right]330.5[/TD]

[TD=align: right]2.52[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0.647[/TD]

[TD=align: right]256[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Inline (Small, 62.5cm)[/TD]

[TD=align: right]40[/TD]

[TD=align: right]44.098[/TD]

[TD=align: right]1.10[/TD]

[TD=align: right]10.3[/TD]

[TD=align: right]2.52[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0.234[/TD]

[TD=align: right]8[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Inline (125cm)[/TD]

[TD=align: right]200[/TD]

[TD=align: right]232.785[/TD]

[TD=align: right]1.16[/TD]

[TD=align: right]82.6[/TD]

[TD=align: right]2.52[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0.355[/TD]

[TD=align: right]64[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Inline (Large, 250cm)[/TD]

[TD=align: right]750[/TD]

[TD=align: right]1012.280[/TD]

[TD=align: right]1.35[/TD]

[TD=align: right]660.9[/TD]

[TD=align: right]2.52[/TD]

[TD=align: right]0.653[/TD]

[TD=align: right]512[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

Now, if you have a 7-kerbal vessel, with the standard two of the 250cm LSS containers, you have a mission endurance of only 188 days. Using various recycling tech would extend that by about a factor of 5x (940 days).

The recycler machinery now makes more sense for any mission lasting > 300-400 days.

[lextacy]

For longer missions, you should look into the various TAC-LS parts that recycle CO2 into O2 and waste water into fresh water (see also MunSeeker's greenhouse). If you can get 70-90% efficiency on recycling, you've just cut your resupply mission requirement drastically.

Food is something that cant be recycled, so what I could add to your suggestion is Run an ATV vehicle to your stations with built in TAC resources. Just run up the values to last a few years.

[WuphonsReach]

Food is something that cant be recycled, so what I could add to your suggestion is Run an ATV vehicle to your stations with built in TAC resources. Just run up the values to last a few years.

There's nothing built into TAC-LS, but MunSeeker's greenhouse turns waste back into food. Each greenhouse is designed to support (3) Kerbals and returns 70% food, 60% water, 30% oxygen from the inputs. Which helps a good bit on the amount of food that has to be shipped up (a 70% reduction for X duration).

[Pectus Solentis]

Hello. I'm TACLS user and I'm faborable to your mod.

But what i want to suggest to you is...

How about adding small radial (as petty as z100 battery) purifier which supports 3 kerbals?

Current purifier is so big and heavy, and inline only, and too overpowered to support one exploraion team. 1.25m one supports 8 kerbals and 2.5m one suppprts 9 kerbals. Isn't it?

So I wonder how I can support one extrakerbin exploration team, which consists of only 3 kerbals. Just packing a pile of FWO(food, H2O, O2) up to crew's comsumption is what I should do? But packing pile of H2O and O2 for a journey of at least 3 weeks (to minmus) or 1 years (to other planets inner than Jool and Dres) seems quite a few unrealistic. Pile of H2O is heavy, and Pile of - probably liquid - O2 is dangerous.

Bringing pile of food is one of obvious and must, but bringing pile of H2O and O2 is a kind of ridiculous and hazardous things, i think.

So I think that there should be petit purifierz that support 3 kerbals... radial ones will be better.

Edited March 1, 2015 by Pectus Solentis

[Yemo]

Hello everybody,

I m the author of the SETI-BalanceMod (link in signature).

I changed the TAC ls and Universal Storage wedges for the SETI-BalanceMod as follows:

Universal Storage processor wedges provide support for 1 kerbal (using the TAC ls formulae and creating a new processor wedge config), 1.25m TAC ls processors provide support for 3 kerbals and 2.5m TAC ls processors can support 9 kerbals. All masses have been rebalanced to fit into that scheme and make it a little more realistic.

Also I changed the Sabatier Recycler to be a Sabatier Reactor, using the formula from the Universal Storage Reactor, including Hydrogen.

To make Hydrogen available without using the Universal Storage wedges, I added the resource definition in my SETI-Settings.cfg, if the CommunityResourcePack is not installed.

Then I added it to the Procedural Parts Life Support tank, since my mod uses Procedural Parts wherever possible to reduce clutter.

There have been no bug reports about it, since this was introduced.

[chrisl]

I've only recently started using TACLS since I installed Reality Overhaul and I'm encountering what I think is an issue. It's possible this is specific to RO but I wanted to start here. When I built my rocket, the Life Support Build Aid screen said I had just over 14 days worth of Food, Water, Waste and Waste Water with my max crew of 2. My capsule is now in orbit and has been for 5d8h so I'd expect to have used/filled no more then about 38% of my Food, Water, Waste and Waste Water. Food, Water and Waste Water are all right on target but I've already filled 80% of my waste capacity. Is there any way to find out where the extra Waste is coming from?

[Tommy59375]

I've only recently started using TACLS since I installed Reality Overhaul and I'm encountering what I think is an issue. It's possible this is specific to RO but I wanted to start here. When I built my rocket, the Life Support Build Aid screen said I had just over 14 days worth of Food, Water, Waste and Waste Water with my max crew of 2. My capsule is now in orbit and has been for 5d8h so I'd expect to have used/filled no more then about 38% of my Food, Water, Waste and Waste Water. Food, Water and Waste Water are all right on target but I've already filled 80% of my waste capacity. Is there any way to find out where the extra Waste is coming from?

Loads of stuff makes waste. Haven't played the mod in a long time, but it's OK to let the wastes overfill, nothing bad happens (didn't used to at least), you simply lose the opportunity to recycle it back to something good

[Samapico]

I'm playing around with the configs of Munseeker's Mk1 greenhouse, and the Lacuna CELSS greenhouse(s), and I'm trying to test them out on Kerbin. Oxygen is not consumed on Kerbin by the Kerbals, which makes sense... But carbon dioxide also appears to not be produced, which is weird. Is this intended behavior? Is it some kind of side effect of not consuming oxygen?

[chrisl]

Loads of stuff makes waste. Haven't played the mod in a long time, but it's OK to let the wastes overfill, nothing bad happens (didn't used to at least), you simply lose the opportunity to recycle it back to something good

I mostly noticed it because once Waste filled up, I suddenly stopped recycling CO2. Even with the CO2 scrubber running, if my Waste fills up CO2 no longer gets cleaned.

[nobodyhasthis]

I have been trying to get this working for ages. It seems to work by generates error messages saying that it is not installed correctly. It says that it can't find ModuleManager. However I have 2.5.10 installed. I have double checked the install instructions twice an it seems to be in the exact directory but that error message does not agree with the instructions.

I think it trying to detect outdated .dll files so it says it can't find them. When the whole thing loads the mod seems to be working but those error messages on start up are annoying. Has anybody else seen these messages pop up during loading?

Should I stop using the mod until it is updated to use ModuleManager 2.5.10?

Can somebody confirm the correct folder pattern?

[nobodyhasthis]

{KSP}/GameData/ThunderAerospace/TacLifeSupport

{KSP}/GameData/ThunderAerospace/TacLifeSupportContainers

{KSP}/GameData/ThunderAerospace/TacLifeSupportHexCans

{KSP}/GameData/ThunderAerospace/TacLifeSupportMFT

{KSP}/GameData/ThunderAerospace/TacLifeSupportRecyclers

and the TacLifeSupport.dll should be in the {KSP}/GameData/ThunderAerospace/TacLifeSupport directory.

But error message says every thing should be in TacLifeSupport. Which would make it....

{KSP}/GameData/ThunderAerospace/TacLifeSupport//TacLifeSupportContainers and so on.

Which conflicts with the install instructions. They can't both be right!

It says it module manager is missing but the loading screen says 166 patches. So it is working and in the Game data folder. Time to bin this mod for now I think.

Edited March 5, 2015 by nobodyhasthis

[goldenpsp]

{KSP}/GameData/ThunderAerospace/TacLifeSupport

{KSP}/GameData/ThunderAerospace/TacLifeSupportContainers

{KSP}/GameData/ThunderAerospace/TacLifeSupportHexCans

{KSP}/GameData/ThunderAerospace/TacLifeSupportMFT

{KSP}/GameData/ThunderAerospace/TacLifeSupportRecyclers

and the TacLifeSupport.dll should be in the {KSP}/GameData/ThunderAerospace/TacLifeSupport directory.

But error message says every thing should be in TacLifeSupport. Which would make it....

{KSP}/GameData/ThunderAerospace/TacLifeSupport//TacLifeSupportContainers and so on.

Which conflicts with the install instructions. They can't both be right!

It says it module manager is missing but the loading screen says 166 patches. So it is working and in the Game data folder. Time to bin this mod for now I think.

An actual screenshot of your gamedata folder might help. I literally copied the thunderAerospace folder into gamedata and it works flawlessly.

[nobodyhasthis]

An actual screenshot of your gamedata folder might help. I literally copied the thunderAerospace folder into gamedata and it works flawlessly.

Yes, i agree.It is supposed to work like that. I have to had made a directory error some place.

Right! A bit of a draconian action but I binned the lot. All my mods and config files! They loaded bay in TAS and it worked like a charm. 10 minutes later and I was all setup with the best of the other mods supporting 0.90 and all is well.

[Shurikeeen]

When I go to max time warp around sun, my ElectricCharge goes down and warp stops and "ElectricCharge depleted!" message appears. Then my electricity goes back up again. My electricity's source is 8 gigantor arrays.

Video

Edited March 7, 2015 by Shurikeeen

[Donziboy2]

When I go to max time warp around sun, my ElectricCharge goes down and warp stops and "ElectricCharge depleted!" message appears. Then my electricity goes back up again. My electricity's source is 8 gigantor arrays.

Video

Thats the way KSP works. The amount of a resource per tick increases with time warp, if you don't have a large enough reserve then the tick drains more then you can replace and you run out.

[WuphonsReach]

When I go to max time warp around sun, my ElectricCharge goes down and warp stops and "ElectricCharge depleted!" message appears. Then my electricity goes back up again. My electricity's source is 8 gigantor arrays.

Video

Based on what you have drawing power (looks like 8-10 EU/s), you have way too little reserve battery power. I would suggest around 40-80k of reserve power, not 8k, for power needs of 8-10 EU/s.

Personally, I like to weld (UbioWeld) together 30-50 Z-1k batteries or 15-20 Z-4k batteries in a stack. Most of my 8+ kerbal stations end up with reserve power of at least 100k and usually 150k of energy storage.

[drtedastro]

Hello to all.

My question is, Why are my unmanned stations using up all of the resources??? These are preplaced parts waiting for kerbal crew(s) to arrive. However, all food, water everything is being consumed by some ghost???

I have glanced through the pages and if i missed this, sorry.

any help or what do i need to do or what have i done wrong.... MechJeb shouldn't be hungry????

thanks.