[1.0.5] TAC Life Support v0.11.2.1 [12Dec]

[TaranisElsu]

You´re the best! It works! I guess i would get some problems with TST as soon as I would use that tech in my career... Really, thank you very much.

Where can I report this to tobyb121? Here on forums?

On the Tarsier Space Technology thread.

[Dr. Jet]

0.25 is out and still no x64 dll...

Man, noone gonna force you to actually support KSPx64 (recieve reports, hunt bugs, etc.) if you don't want to, but can you at least compile the dll with extra address space? PLEASE?

Realistic gameplay heavily depends on your mod.

[NathanKell]

Dr. Jet: I think you misunderstand how plugins work. One doesn't compile plugins for x86 or x64. Use the released version (but, as TaranisElsu says, please don't expect or ask for support).

[DuoDex]

Hello im having a problem with this mod on the new .25 update x64 i start up and i freeze at the loading screen. im using a lot of other mods but i think its this one causing the problem because i had everything working and then i installed the new version of mechjeb and everything borked. pls help. log file in misnamed spoiler below

click the spoiler button for fun!

JUST KIDDING! Thanks for all the great work Taranis! Now I can kill kerbals using a lack of parts instead of an overabundance of them !

Edited October 11, 2014 by DuoDex

[TaranisElsu]

0.25 is out and still no x64 dll...

Man, noone gonna force you to actually support KSPx64 (recieve reports, hunt bugs, etc.) if you don't want to, but can you at least compile the dll with extra address space? PLEASE?

http://albanianvoices.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/please.jpg

Realistic gameplay heavily depends on your mod.

Dr. Jet: I think you misunderstand how plugins work. One doesn't compile plugins for x86 or x64. Use the released version (but, as TaranisElsu says, please don't expect or ask for support).

How can I ignore that adorable face? But as NathanKell says, we should not have to compile a special version for the KSP Win64 version. I don't for the Linux 64-bit version.

Feel free to try it, but I cannot offer support because of how unstable and inconsistent the Win 64-bit version is. I would end up wasting a lot of time chasing red herrings and not be able to make it better .

Edited October 11, 2014 by TaranisElsu

[TaranisElsu]

Hello im having a problem with this mod on the new .25 update x64 i start up and i freeze at the loading screen. im using a lot of other mods but i think its this one causing the problem because i had everything working and then i installed the new version of mechjeb and everything borked. pls help. log file in misnamed spoiler below

click the spoiler button for fun!

JUST KIDDING! Thanks for all the great work Taranis! Now I can kill kerbals using a lack of parts instead of an overabundance of them !

Very nice. Have fun, and as Scott Manley would say, "fly safe" -- or not

[DuoDex]

Very nice. Have fun, and as Scott Manley would say, "fly safe" -- or not

Sorry, I just had to do that. There's so many people who don't read that it's not supported on x64 and then complain using horrible grammar that felt the need to poke fun a bit.

[Climberfx]

TaranisElsu.

I love almost all of your mods.

I have a question. Will Life support and Fuel Balancer have support to Stock Toolbar?

[TaranisElsu]

TaranisElsu.

I love almost all of your mods.

I have a question. Will Life support and Fuel Balancer have support to Stock Toolbar?

Eventually. I need to write a class that handles creating/showing/hiding a button using the stock toolbar or blizzy's toolbar, depending on a setting, and throw it in TacLib so that I can use it for all of my mods. I would accept a pull request, if you want to try tackling it

[Dr. Jet]

Maybe I really just don't understand something. DLL is a linkable library of executable code (generally). So when I see a phrase like "x64 not supported", I interpret it as "we still have 32bit pointers in code, so expect a guaranteed bunch of critical errors when program bloats over 3,6Gb memory limit". Am I wrong and modern compilers do somehow automatically fix that?

P.S. Excuse me if I'm writing silly things. I'm a real dinosaur in programming... didn't code for over 15 years.

[Climberfx]

Eventually. I need to write a class that handles creating/showing/hiding a button using the stock toolbar or blizzy's toolbar, depending on a setting, and throw it in TacLib so that I can use it for all of my mods. I would accept a pull request, if you want to try tackling it

That's great news! Were would you wanna your pull, here in the first post? What the other options you wanna me to put in, or just this one with yes or no?

[NathanKell]

.NET dlls are compiled to CLI, not anything deeper, so they can run on any architecture with a .NET interpreter (notionally). KSP includes its own mono interpreter, and pretty much all KSP's code is in CLI dlls, so our dlls target dlls that are themselves architecture-agnostic.

[rottielover]

OK i'm stumped... I completely wiped out my game folder. Installed fresh and downloaded fresh copy's of all the mods I wanted (a ton of them I admit). I loaded in TAC LS and I thought everything was fine (all the containers for LS supplies are in the parts list, resources show up on parts etc), but it's like the game didn't load the DLL because toolbar doesn't have the icon, and my kerbals arn't consuming the supplies.

If I accidentally disabled it somehow, wouldn't there still be a button on the main KSC scene after loading to would let me re-enable it for the save file?

Well I confirmed that I must have installed the Mod correctly, because I created a brand new save file, and the plugin loaded. I have no idea how on earth I managed to turn it off in my career save

Edited October 13, 2014 by rottielover

[nanowinner]

Okay, I have a question.

Is it normal that when you install a normal sized life support container for a single Kerbal it gets ~315 days of life support?! That is a bit overpowered, isn't it? And I've checked the installation and reinstalled it just to make sure.

I'm using the latest release and the x32 version of KSP 0.25 on a Windows 8.1

[Crater]

Okay, I have a question.

Is it normal that when you install a normal sized life support container for a single Kerbal it gets ~315 days of life support?! That is a bit overpowered, isn't it? And I've checked the installation and reinstalled it just to make sure.

I'm using the latest release and the x32 version of KSP 0.25 on a Windows 8.1

That depends on how far you are going.

Anywhere outside the Kerbin SoI, you're probably looking at roud trip times in the hundreds of days, or even thousands for Eeloo. And then you have the fact that you could have 3 or more people on board, and you're looking at stacking many of them even if you use recyclers.

[TaranisElsu]

OK i'm stumped... I completely wiped out my game folder. Installed fresh and downloaded fresh copy's of all the mods I wanted (a ton of them I admit). I loaded in TAC LS and I thought everything was fine (all the containers for LS supplies are in the parts list, resources show up on parts etc), but it's like the game didn't load the DLL because toolbar doesn't have the icon, and my kerbals arn't consuming the supplies.

If I accidentally disabled it somehow, wouldn't there still be a button on the main KSC scene after loading to would let me re-enable it for the save file?

Well I confirmed that I must have installed the Mod correctly, because I created a brand new save file, and the plugin loaded. I have no idea how on earth I managed to turn it off in my career save

Log file? See my signature.

Yes, if you turned off the mod, there would still be an icon in the Space Center scene.

I'm just guessing since I don't have a log file to look at, but is it working in a Sandbox save but not a Career save? Are you also using the Tarsier Space Technology mod? If so, look back a few pages to where I helped someone else fix their install. If that is not the problem, then I need a log file to start diagnosing what is wrong.

Okay, I have a question.

Is it normal that when you install a normal sized life support container for a single Kerbal it gets ~315 days of life support?! That is a bit overpowered, isn't it? And I've checked the installation and reinstalled it just to make sure.

I'm using the latest release and the x32 version of KSP 0.25 on a Windows 8.1

That depends on how far you are going.

Anywhere outside the Kerbin SoI, you're probably looking at roud trip times in the hundreds of days, or even thousands for Eeloo. And then you have the fact that you could have 3 or more people on board, and you're looking at stacking many of them even if you use recyclers.

Yes, a normal sized container does last 300+ days for a single Kerbal. Trips to the Mun or Minmus are short and are easy to provide for. But as Crater said, trips to other planets are much longer and will require more supplies. I calcuated that a round-trip to Duna would take ~1130 Kerbin days (including the wait for a return window). Sending 6 Kerbals would require adding 2.4 large containers or about 4.5 tons. That may not sound like much but a Mk1-2 Command Pod + PPD-10 Hitchhiker Storage Container is only 6.5 tons, so your life support supplies will increase the mass required for your crew by ~70%. And a round-trip to Jool would take ~3023 Kerbin days.

BTW, all of my math is available in my spreadsheet.

Edited October 13, 2014 by TaranisElsu
grammar

[jnokomis]

It looks like there is some ambiguity around the mass of the water and oxygen recyclers (higher mass to prevent a cheaty feel / lower mass to make it more usable).

If we use the smaller CO2 scrubber and water purifier (5 tons and 3 tons respectively) instead of just sending more oxygen and water, the approximate break-even point is a crew of 7 going to and from Jool.

If we have less crew, or are going anywhere inside Jool orbit, it doesn't make the recyclers useful. Add in their need for electricity and it hurts a bit more.

Maybe it's the simple idea of avoiding waste that's appealing, but making the recyclers lighter would make them desirable for interplanetary ships instead of limiting them to bases and orbital stations.

There was a blurb in the calculations spreadsheet about making them 0.75 tons when empty, which may not be a bad starting point. After doing a lot of digging around in NASA articles I could only gather a gut feeling that the CO2 and water scrubbers on the ISS would be in the hundreds of kilograms range (not thousands), but that's without any added infrastructure, and it's also for human beings instead of Kerbals.

I feel torn on this.

[Rodon]

Hi, i have an problem, don't know if this was solved here, when i build my ship and add water purifier, water isn't decreasing, but increasing, so in +/- 22d i have double amount of water .

I believe that problem is in Waste Water Production Rate which is greater than Water Consumption Rate.

WaterConsumptionRate = 1.1188078704E-05

WasteWaterProductionRate = 1.4247685185E-05

dunno what is "E-05" part

I liked old system when 1 tenth of oxygen/water + water purifier/carbon extractor + 10 tenth of food was just enough.

I will be happy if you wrote what values should i change to fix this.

[panarchist]

After doing a lot of digging around in NASA articles I could only gather a gut feeling that the CO2 and water scrubbers on the ISS would be in the hundreds of kilograms range (not thousands), but that's without any added infrastructure, and it's also for human beings instead of Kerbals.

The Air Revitalization System (CO2 scrubber) on ISS is about 800kg. You can find a detailed breakdown in the appendices of NASA's Advanced Life Support Baseline Assumptions document. (NASA publication CR-2004-208941: Advanced Life Support and Baseline Assumptions)

Water recycling is a little under 1,200kg. Same source as above.

Both those assume a crew of 6 humans, or the equivalent of 24 kerbals.

That document also contains numbers for the Shuttle, and for Spacelab.

[jnokomis]

That's the exact document I was hoping to find. I failed miserably.

Thanks for catching that.

[seanth]

Hi, i have an problem, don't know if this was solved here, when i build my ship and add water purifier, water isn't decreasing, but increasing, so in +/- 22d i have double amount of water .

I believe that problem is in Waste Water Production Rate which is greater than Water Consumption Rate.

WaterConsumptionRate = 1.1188078704E-05

WasteWaterProductionRate = 1.4247685185E-05

dunno what is "E-05" part

I liked old system when 1 tenth of oxygen/water + water purifier/carbon extractor + 10 tenth of food was just enough.

I will be happy if you wrote what values should i change to fix this.

E-05 tells you how many 0s go in front, such that 1.1188078704E-05= 0.000011188078704

[fluidlogic]

Yes, a normal sized container does last 300+ days for a single Kerbal. Trips to the Mun or Minmus are short and are easy to provide for. But as Crater said, trips to other planets are much longer and will require more supplies. I calcuated that a round-trip to Duna would take ~1130 Kerbin days (including the wait for a return window). Sending 6 Kerbals would require adding 2.4 large containers or about 4.5 tons. That may not sound like much but a Mk1-2 Command Pod + PPD-10 Hitchhiker Storage Container is only 6.5 tons, so your life support supplies will increase the mass required for your crew by ~70%. And a round-trip to Jool would take ~3023 Kerbin days.

BTW, all of my math is available in my spreadsheet.

I thought it was a little cheaty at first... until I ended up with two Kerbals stranded on Eve (silly me forgot to compensate for G when I comped my ÃŽâ€v) with like 150 days of water left and a year and a half before I could get a rescue probe even close.

[panarchist]

That's the exact document I was hoping to find. I failed miserably.

Thanks for catching that.

No problem. I've posted the link several times in this thread and once or twice in other threads, because no one wants to read back 20 pages of thread to find it. I'm still hoping to find a Russian equivalent with data from Salyut and Mir.

Winchell Chung's marvelous Atomic Rocket site has a copy of it along with numerous other documents with real-life values for just about everything. Most of the documents also reside on the NASA Technical Reports Server (http://ntrs.nasa.gov/search.jsp), but you have to be pretty good with keywords and willing to wade through a lot of results to find the good stuff. Besides the Advanced Life Support Baseline Assumptions doc, there's also the SCOM (Shuttle Crew Operations Manual), which is perhaps the best technical reference out there for the Space Shuttle. There are some similar manuals for ISS, but I don't have the links handy at the moment.

[h3ron]

What about the greenhouse?

Do you suggest any 0.25-compatible greenhouse mod?

[Gaugeforever]

WaterConsumptionRate = 1.1188078704E-05

WasteWaterProductionRate = 1.4247685185E-05

dunno what is "E-05" part

Google scientific notation. This is a useful skill to know, so you should probably look more into it than a forum reply.