Kerbin Mini Shuttle

[helldiver]

Alright, here's a quick project update.

-Technical work continues on the KSO portion. So far things have been good and ZRM got it in game more or less. There are still a few bugs to flesh out but all that should soon be out of the way.

-We're not posting any in-game pics until the KSO is properly in game and all bugs are sorted out. Currently not all textures are on as well as there is still quite a bit to get functional (such as the IVA, landing gear, etc).

-Unfortunately do to the design, its use as a parts pack is severely limited, more so than we originally anticipated. This being temporary or permanent is up in the air. A lot of it has to do with buggy attachment node code.

-The good news is that the cargo bay is working superbly. ZRM even did an EVA walk around with little to no collision errors or problems.

-As a heads up, the shuttle works magnificently with the KCA mod. As I said earlier for the first versions of it, I'm not providing support for a non-KCA version of it. That doesn't mean you have to have ZRM's KCA mod, it just means that there is a possibility that the KSO will be very unstable without it. For the average user it will be a required download. We are currently not spending time on engineering a version without KCA. Later on once we have more of the project fleshed out and folks are flying it, we can go back and release a non KCA dependent version for advanced users.

Since it seemed that ZRM didn't need anymore direct art support for this first phase, I decided to move along with other parts of the project, in particular the lift vehicle.

-The EFT will not be segmented, heads up because I know we'll get a bunch of folks asking. There are plenty of segmented fuel tanks both in game and on the space port. I'm not making one.

-The EFT will be designed to go with the KSO (see WIP pics below). That means you're free to try to use it on other assemblies but its attachment points and configuration will assume the KSO.

-The Liquid fuel boosters will be liquid fuel. They will be solid as well minus the engine.

-Like the boosters, the EFT has an engine mounting location on the bottom.

-Parachutes, sepatrons, and accessories may be integrated into the EFT and Boosters. I don't know at this point. This means you won't be attaching the stock parachutes and sepatrons by default since those components will already have them.

For those of you that wanted some texturing and modeling tips I'll do my best to post pics of the process, starting with Step 1.

Step 1

-Using 3D Studio Max, I create the Master model of the External Fuel Tank. This model has more polygons than the low resolution model used in game, but less polygons than its high resolution version I'll use for map generation.

-I make a clone of the KSO that I weld as a single model. This will guide me in figuring out the scale and size of both the EFT and the external boosters.

-I use the real space shuttle EFT as a guide for my own stylized KSO EFT.

-I primarily work in Editable Poly. This allows me to extrude edges, chamfer, sub-divide, collapse as needed. Although I started with a basic cylinder which I collapsed down to Editable Poly.

Completed master model:

[helldiver]

Helldiver, are the engines going to be compatible with stock? They look like they would be good LV-T30 replacements.

On a related note, what is the diameter of the engines? It looks a bit smaller than standard 1.25m. (I am talking about the SSMEs, not the OMS)

I designed them to be compatible with anything really. I originally wasn't going to make engines, but then I realized I may need custom numbers on the engines to fit the needs of the KSO. Hence I put together the Thrustmax and Omnimax. I don't have max fired up right now, but the KSO is 1.8m wide to the edges, so judge it based on that. Which would mean much much smaller than 1.25m.

In my write up the OMS engines were designed to perform poorly at atmospheres but much better in a vacuum.

[TouhouTorpedo]

If you're still thinking about using Pitch Vector plugin, it works alongside the stock engine module, so if the engines are set up for Pitch Vector they should work fine without it installed as regular engines. The stock Gimbal module should also work with it just fine. Just thought I'd add the heads up while you're talking about engines.

[Climberfx]

How much cargo will be the upper limit for the original shuttle configuration, so it can do a LKO to deliver it?

[Lyze Of J]

Handsome ET, do you plan on having the Boosters having straight noses, like the space shuttle, or slanted to the side of the ET, like the Ariane V.

or

[DisarmingBaton5]

Handsome ET, do you plan on having the Boosters having straight noses, like the space shuttle, or slanted to the side of the ET, like the Ariane V.

Might a better example be Energia, as it was used to lift Buran? Personally, I like that 4 booster configuration. Just saying.

[SargeRho]

There's a mounting point underneath the tank, so you can make it into a Buran

[ZRM]

If you're still thinking about using Pitch Vector plugin, it works alongside the stock engine module, so if the engines are set up for Pitch Vector they should work fine without it installed as regular engines. The stock Gimbal module should also work with it just fine. Just thought I'd add the heads up while you're talking about engines.

Yes, I was planning on using the Pitch Vector plugin - it looks ideal for this, and it also looks like it won't interfere with KCA.

[Marscommander]

Handsome ET, do you plan on having the Boosters having straight noses, like the space shuttle, or slanted to the side of the ET, like the Ariane V.

She is so pretty...

[Lyze Of J]

She is so pretty...

Discovery was my favorite, but I loved all of them, the decommissioning was a shame...

[astropapi1]

Discovery was my favorite, but I loved all of them, the decommissioning was a shame...

Fire in the hole! Take cover!

[Marscommander]

Discovery was my favorite, but I loved all of them, the decommissioning was a shame...

Discovery was my favorite too, so sad that they are now jsut laying about doing nothing now...

[J0hnsmine]

Discovery was my favorite, but I loved all of them, the decommissioning was a shame...

Yeah, though the new popular science shows an awesome R-T-O (runway to orbit) and *bloop* <Picture)

the new shuttle should look like that.

[th3shameless]

Discovery was my favorite, but I loved all of them, the decommissioning was a shame...

me too, it was the only us launch vehicle i actually liked :/

[LaydeeDem]

Endeavour and Columbia are my favorites.

[Blaylock1988]

I watched Endeavor land in LA in person, it was a sight to see on the back of that 747!

[Lyze Of J]

I went to go see the last flight of Endeavor, STS-134, but it was scrubbed because of APU failure, and it launched the day after I got back. However, I belive we got a little off track...

[The Destroyer]

Um, guys, this is about the Kerbin Mini shuttle not about the space shuttle... just saying.

[ZRM]

Um, guys, this is about the Kerbin Mini shuttle not about the space shuttle... just saying.

Yeah, I should do a progress update with screenshots at some point to regain the proper course of the thread, now that I have the attachment nodes, RCS, main engines, landing gear, cargo bay and control surfaces functioning correctly. Once I am satisfied with the initial state of the OMS engines I will be working on the IVA glass cockpit. Of course, screenshots posted here would be only with Helldiver's permission, as he wants to ensure that the shuttle always looks its best. In the process of development the parts of the shuttle have been subjected to some very unflattering appearances and situations.

[helldiver]

Aye progress on this side.

We hit a few easily solvable snags, ZRM got it under control (mostly to do with the landing gear). The good thing is every time we learn something new it just means that anything new we add would go in much faster.

Anyhow continuing on with my mini-development insider...

Step 2

-I then clone the master mesh into two meshes.

-Mesh 1, will be the EFT Low resolution game mesh. I optimize it accordingly removing any geometry that won't be used.

-Mesh 2, will be the EFT High resolution mesh which I will use to generate shadow, light, and normal map data. That is later translated into other textures such as specular and edge maps. Although often times some textures have to be done by hand.

Step 2 A

-The high resolution mesh is subdivided using the editable poly sub-division tools. This is where max 2010+ graphite modeling tools come in really handy (not shown in this shot).

-If this was going to be sent to Z-Brush or Mudbox (which I use) I typically don't sub-divide as much but just enough to create a canvas to work on. For this project, since I'm not really dealing with anything organic (such as living characters) I don't really take it into mudbox and do all sub-division by hand in Max.

-Note the completed high resolution version of the EFT.

Step 2 B

-The low resolution mesh is then given a single smoothing group by selecting all faces.

-I then look at areas that benefit from their own smoothing group. I think some of you guys call this hard and soft edges.

-I then apply a UVW map along the Y or X axis pretty much bathing the whole thing in one single UV.

-I then select the faces I want to have their own UVW coordinates to create an "island". Basically any spot that can't easily be relaxed with the relaxing tools. I don't mess with it, max will do everything for me automatically. All I do is select the faces I want to have their own island, hit Unwrap UVW and then collapse. I do this over and over until I have all the pieces in their own island. For more complex meshes sometimes I'll hit it with a different material just to make sure I covered everything and didn't miss a spot.

-After I am done I end up with a mess that looks like this:

-That's ok, as long as all the areas I wanted to have their own islands are together, this mess is ok.

-I then hit the relax tool along edges or faces until all those islands come together.

-I then stitch as many of the pelts as I can to reduce the amount of seamlines visible on the final model.

-I move my pelts to the best optimal location to save UV space. The big blank spot on the right is reserved for the Liquid SRB which we'll build later.

The model is now done and ready for baking and texturing in photoshop.

[pina_coladas]

Have you done any play-testing with external tanks and boosters? Cause my eyeballs are telling me that your ET model looks very over-sized for the mini shuttle. Like, enough fuel to get to jool. And then you also have to think about the TWR of the stack after the boosters have jettisoned. If I'm wrong ignore this!

[skykooler]

This is looking really good! ZRM, any chance of a video in-game?

[Lyze Of J]

The ET is slightly thinner, but longer thean the regular space shuttle, possibly balancing the stack, also, the ISP will most likely be higher at higher altitudes, just like the space shuttle, burning more fuel at lower altitudes, plus the burn rate will most likely be higher to get the TWR to carry the ET after booster separation.

[ZRM]

Have you done any play-testing with external tanks and boosters? Cause my eyeballs are telling me that your ET model looks very over-sized for the mini shuttle. Like, enough fuel to get to jool. And then you also have to think about the TWR of the stack after the boosters have jettisoned. If I'm wrong ignore this!

I was trying to post this yesterday when my internet connection cut out:

Completed master model:

Just a thought - if the volume of that tank is filled accurately we would need to require low density H2/O2 from Modular Fuel System to use it, as regular Liquid Fuel/Oxidiser would make the LV far too heavy. And if it could somehow launch with a LF/O EFT using overpowered engines the shuttle would then be able to easily reach Duna, which I don't think is the desired result. Personally I think we should require Modular Fuel System, as that would force the player to make proper use of the main engines and the OMS engines.

Edited August 23, 2013 by ZRM

[helldiver]

It's actually slightly shorter now since it was a bit too tall. But not by much.

I want the EFT to show bulk and mass. It needs to look large and in charge. Just because the KSO is mini doesn't mean the EFT needs to be a mini-me version as well.