Kerbin Mini Shuttle

[helldiver]

I didn't think any one part of the wikipedia PFD was the HSI, rather it seems that the PFD manages to incorporate most HSI features, including glideslope indication, judging from what wikipedia can tell me about what an HSI is. Anyway, I very much like the idea of all electronic instrumentation being display-independent (with possibly the exception of the HUD). Also, I now agree about having "backup" gauges. Most aircraft seem to have them as well.

I am now working on a shader to help me draw the artificial horizon efficiently. I have also made sure that I can easily switch the on-screen version to a display panel in-game, once one becomes available.

Outstanding!

Soon as the flight deck is done and instruments, I'll send it to you. I have a few questions regarding collision meshes in the cockpit, but I'll get to those once the art is done since scaling or resizing is easy.

[Whirligig Girl]

I get what you are asking, but why would you want an original mod to mimic the stock game? Each mod should have its own flair, it's own pinache, that's why you have for example Tiberion's extendable docking ports, Devo's lowerable pegasus cargo bay, sirkut's Infernal robotics parts, they are like their signature.

This is supposed to be stockalike! Even B9 Aerospace uses the stock texture for docking ports, and it's not even being stock!

[DisarmingBaton5]

ZRM, will the shuttle work on Mac? It seems to need your plugin, but I do not know to what extent and after viewing the KCA thread, I think I may have some problems. (I'm on Mac)

[helldiver]

This is supposed to be stockalike! Even B9 Aerospace uses the stock texture for docking ports, and it's not even being stock!

We're way beyond stock-like man... We're like in orbit...

@ZRM

Are you sure we should do a HUD? I mean it's modeled, and I've already started UV unwrapping. I'll be doing Sub-D tomorrow for the normal maps, AO bakes, and specular.

-You lose some visibility by having the HUD. I made them foldable, but you still lose some visibility. Real ones aren't really foldable, adjustable at best. You think you'll be able to program the HUD?

The view from the PIC

View with HUDs folded. We can play around with FOV and Depth of Field I suppose to give players a better view?

View from the rear

All my shots are 1920x1080p, but I resize them to 800 so the forum doesn't get all fudged.

[ZRM]

We're way beyond stock-like man... We're like in orbit...

@ZRM

Are you sure we should do a HUD? I mean it's modeled, and I've already started UV unwrapping. I'll be doing Sub-D tomorrow for the normal maps, AO bakes, and specular.

-You lose some visibility by having the HUD. I made them foldable, but you still lose some visibility. Real ones aren't really foldable, adjustable at best. You think you'll be able to program the HUD?

I was thinking maybe it could be a slightly (OK, very) unrealistic HUD where it is projected onto the window - so you would have nothing blocking visibility when it's disabled. Either that or it is put in screen space and we pretend it's in the Kerbals' helmets. At least that way, if I somehow can't program it there won't be a glaring reminder that the feature is not there.

[ZRM]

ZRM, will the shuttle work on Mac? It seems to need your plugin, but I do not know to what extent and after viewing the KCA thread, I think I may have some problems. (I'm on Mac)

All of the glass cockpit plugin should definitely work on a Mac. KCA should eventually work on Macs - I own a Mac (in fact that is what I am typing from right now) and I have been trying recently to get Unity to find the native library correctly, which is the only problem standing in the way.

[ZRM]

So far I have managed to:

• get Unity to dynamically load programmable shaders correctly. This was in fact a very tricky problem that was solved using undocumented parts of Unity - I should write a tutorial about how to do this at some point. No matter what you try to do in Unity, it finds a way to make your life difficult.
  
• render an artificial horizon. You can simulate roll using a slider. The artificial horizon also has customisable sky and ground colours, in case you're thinking of flying to Duna or Eve. You can also customise the white horizon line thickness. These customisable settings are baked into a texture at runtime to give maximum performance.
  

Now I've got to the point where I need a pitch scale to go over the artificial horizon. I'll try to mock one up myself, but it would be handy if you, helldiver, could make one for me to test. It would need to just be a texture with the numbered scale from -90 to 90 on a transparent background. For the time being I would prefer it in PNG format. I would also need a texture for the pointer in the middle (what's the proper name for that?).

Also, don't feel any rush to send me cockpit parts - most of the work for the time being (coding the instrument displays) is independent of the cockpit. In fact I would have little use for a cockpit without a working ADI to test in it.

Edit: By "from -90 to 90" I don't mean that the negative pitch numbers should have a negative sign in front of them.

Edit: I've made a pitch scale that will do for now. Here it is against a black background:

Edited August 7, 2013 by ZRM

[DisarmingBaton5]

View with HUDs folded. We can play around with FOV and Depth of Field I suppose to give players a better view?

Perhaps if they were mounted on the top instead? I don't know how easy or difficult that would be, but it might help! Or you could follow ZRM's advice and put it on the window.

[ZRM]

Nearly there - just need to get the pitch scale aligned correctly, and add the pointer and appropriate rotated vertical movement of the background. Then it can be classified as a rudimentary ADI:

I will get back to working on this later - RL stuff to do.

[Toyotawolf]

What about having the HUD slide up out of the console and lower down into it, gets it out of the way and the animation would be sweet..

[ZRM]

Sorry about all of the picture posts, but here's the ADI Mk1. No roll indication yet, but it's a good start:

Edit: I realise that the actual Space Shuttle uses an ADI that does not look much like this, but I figured this style of ADI would at least be good enough for atmospheric flight.

Edited August 7, 2013 by ZRM

[helldiver]

Sorry about all of the picture posts, but here's the ADI Mk1. No roll indication yet, but it's a good start:

Edit: I realise that the actual Space Shuttle uses an ADI that does not look much like this, but I figured this style of ADI would at least be good enough for atmospheric flight.

You're horizon is perfect. I prefer that one to the one the Space Shuttle uses. We're making a Kerbal shuttle after all. Besides, I prefer your clear ADI much more than the smaller cluttered ones I see on the Space Shuttle.

If you've already made an ADI like that, then the HUD is halfway done. All we'd have to do is apply a transparency to your textures.

Fantastic job!

Also, don't make it circular. Leave it rectangular like you did.

Quick question, on the MFD you're going to slap this ADI and other systems on, do you need anything special?

Basically I have a Box, with buttons, that's about it. I'll have a picture for you soon as I get home. Do I need to separate the glass pane you're projecting on or anything?

You want to wait for the full cockpit to be textured and done? Or would you like me to send you an MFD you can play around with?

[helldiver]

I was thinking maybe it could be a slightly (OK, very) unrealistic HUD where it is projected onto the window - so you would have nothing blocking visibility when it's disabled. Either that or it is put in screen space and we pretend it's in the Kerbals' helmets. At least that way, if I somehow can't program it there won't be a glaring reminder that the feature is not there.

Oh you wanted an HMD

Ok, so pull the HUD off? Although I wasn't planning for the Kerbals to wear their helmets while in the flight deck.

Edited August 7, 2013 by helldiver

[skykooler]

Ok, so pull the HUD off? Although I wasn't planning for the Kerbals to wear their helmets while in the flight deck.

I rather like the HUD, I say keep it.

[ZRM]

Oh you wanted an HMD

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9b/F-35_Helmet_Mounted_Display_System.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/15/Integrated_Helmet_Display_Sight_System.jpg

Ok, so pull the HUD off? Although I wasn't planning for the Kerbals to wear their helmets while in the flight deck.

I personally prefer the idea of having it projected on the window - no helmets and no equipment getting in the way.

[ZRM]

You're horizon is perfect. I prefer that one to the one the Space Shuttle uses. We're making a Kerbal shuttle after all. Besides, I prefer your clear ADI much more than the smaller cluttered ones I see on the Space Shuttle.

If you've already made an ADI like that, then the HUD is halfway done. All we'd have to do is apply a transparency to your textures.

Fantastic job!

Also, don't make it circular. Leave it rectangular like you did.

Quick question, on the MFD you're going to slap this ADI and other systems on, do you need anything special?

Basically I have a Box, with buttons, that's about it. I'll have a picture for you soon as I get home. Do I need to separate the glass pane you're projecting on or anything?

You want to wait for the full cockpit to be textured and done? Or would you like me to send you an MFD you can play around with?

The one thing I know that I need is a separate model for each MFD screen (just the quad that makes it up, unless you want to subdivide it and make it curved), with the UV coordinates set up on each panel so that (0,0) is the top-left corner and (1,1) is the bottom-right corner. You shouldn't need to do anything with the geometry other than split the screen components into separate models. You will probably want to still bake lighting for them in their own texture - I can overlay that in the material for the screen.

I am not so sure about what would need to be done to make buttons work. You may just have to place collider meshes (cuboids) on top of the buttons in Unity. Make sure to pick a sensible button layout. Maybe you should ask on IRC about that.

The one thing I would need for testing is the MFD with buttons, but I have not yet got to that stage.

Also, regarding the displays, what aspect ratio are they? I need to plan the layout of things like the altimeter, etc. Do you have any ideas about the best way to lay everything out?

[ZRM]

Heh, I clearly don't double-check my works of art in photoshop - spot the problem with the pitch scale:

BTW, that roll indicator is temporary. Ideally it should take up more room, have more notches and the lines should be thicker. And of course the indicator arrow needs to be added.

[helldiver]

Most displays I've seen are 1:1 or 3:4 variable ratio

Resolution (I'm going off of the F-16 MFD) was 512x512p 4"x4". I'm assuming on an airliner or Shuttle you'd add an inch to that.

Ok, gonna get you an MFD, with buttons, their collision meshes, and the display Pane. That will all be linked in a hierarchy so you can test things.

By layout do you mean cockpit panel layout? Or do you mean the MFD information itself?

The cockpit panel is already laid out if you see the pics I linked. I placed the gauges and MFD in the locations where they are typically placed in aircraft to make it easy for a pilot to keep track of all instruments during his monitoring cycle. Those Guages and MFD's are temporary though.

Most aircraft (and that would apply to the space shuttle), follow the same layout and it has become almost a de-facto standard with a lot of influence from the FAA.

You don't just put gauges and instruments where they look pretty

[ZRM]

Most displays I've seen are 1:1 or 3:4 variable ratio

Resolution (I'm going off of the F-16 MFD) was 512x512p 4"x4". I'm assuming on an airliner or Shuttle you'd add an inch to that.

Ok, gonna get you an MFD, with buttons, their collision meshes, and the display Pane. That will all be linked in a hierarchy so you can test things.

By layout do you mean cockpit panel layout? Or do you mean the MFD information itself?

The cockpit panel is already laid out if you see the pics I linked. I placed the gauges and MFD in the locations where they are typically placed in aircraft to make it easy for a pilot to keep track of all instruments during his monitoring cycle. Those Guages and MFD's are temporary though.

Most aircraft (and that would apply to the space shuttle), follow the same layout and it has become almost a de-facto standard with a lot of influence from the FAA.

You don't just put gauges and instruments where they look pretty

Sorry, I should have been clearer - I meant within the PFD panel with the ADI, i.e. which side of the ADI to put the altimeter, airspeed indicator, vertical speed indicator etc.

Edit: So which ratio is it that you are using for the ADI, HSI and MFD - 1:1 or 3:4, or a combination?

Edited August 7, 2013 by ZRM

[frizzank]

I say yes to the HUD.

I added this in my FASA mod for Gemini, Helps loads for docking.

Not really there in real life but looks cool and is fun!

[helldiver]

Sorry, I should have been clearer - I meant within the PFD panel with the ADI, i.e. which side of the ADI to put the altimeter, airspeed indicator, vertical speed indicator etc.

Gotcha!

-Don't worry about the mode data for now (HDG, ALT, A/P, and the purple numbers).

-A/P in green in that picture means the ADI is set to Autopilot information mode, so it displays the purple numbers which is what the autopilot is set at. Ignore that for now.

-HDG SEL at the top is Heading Select mode, it's when you're punching in Heading data using your VOR's, FMC, or other device. Ignore that for now.

-ALT is Altitude mode, basically an uncluttered ADI, this is the one we'd be using. It also puts altitude data on the ADI gimbal.

-VOR, DME, VOR Identifier code and frequency, ignore that we won't use that for now. But we may in the future.

-Don't include the barometric pressure data. We won't be using that since we won't be adjusting instruments do to barometric pressure differences. Besides in real life pilots dial that in using ATIS info, or NASA automatically has a prelaunch team set all that up. Hence players won't be screwing around with instrument calibration... Although to be honest, that would be cool and something we can think about in the future in cases where players try to land the KSO on other planets

-The compass rose at the bottom is circular, can you make it square like this one?

-We need that one so that players know what heading to rotate to. Although you can also put heading information at the top of the ADI gimbal.

Edited August 7, 2013 by helldiver

[helldiver]

I forgot to ask,

The ADI instrument texture, does it absolutely have to be its own texture?

We can't put it on the PFD texture sheet as well? Or would that complicate things for you?

I would give you a lot of space, we can do 1024x1024

[ZRM]

I forgot to ask,

The ADI instrument texture, does it absolutely have to be its own texture?

We can't put it on the PFD texture sheet as well? Or would that complicate things for you?

I would give you a lot of space, we can do 1024x1024

Is the ADI not in the same display as the PFD, or are we having a separate ADI as well? Also, what do you mean by texture? Do you mean all of the texture assets that are composed on the display? Currently those are all in separate files. Earlier I was talking about the baked lighting texture. You can give that as little resolution as you like, or you could even not bother with one.

[helldiver]

Is the ADI not in the same display as the PFD, or are we having a separate ADI as well? Also, what do you mean by texture? Do you mean all of the texture assets that are composed on the display? Currently those are all in separate files. Earlier I was talking about the baked lighting texture. You can give that as little resolution as you like, or you could even not bother with one.

No no, you are correct, the ADI is part of the PFD, sorry for the confusion. I meant the texture assets for the display (the numbers, horizon gimbal) that stuff. Can they be put on the same texture sheet as the PFD box?

[ZRM]

No no, you are correct, the ADI is part of the PFD, sorry for the confusion. I meant the texture assets for the display (the numbers, horizon gimbal) that stuff. Can they be put on the same texture sheet as the PFD box?

Theoretically, yes, however a lot of what I am doing relies on the behaviour of texture border clamping/wrapping. If everything was in the same texture I would have to emulate this programmatically in the shaders, which would complicate things and could potentially hurt performance. It will definitely boost the instruction count by quite a bit, though it would require testing to see if the effect is noticeable. Other flight simulators I have seen store their instrument component textures in separate files - for example the Garmin G1000 in FSX has 231 separate textures. Is a single texture really required? Does it have that much of an impact?

Edit: The performance benefit you get from using a texture atlas is reduced draw calls due to using the same texture and the same shader for every object. In a GUI situation, the number of draw calls is not really affected by whether textures are in the same atlas. In fact many textures would be used in one pass.

Edit: Also the number of draw calls is not that important on modern hardware, due to improvements in graphics APIs and drivers making each call inexpensive.

Edited August 7, 2013 by ZRM