0.21 media team

[boxman]

They've stated they won't release on weekends anymore. I'm glad they've kept their word. It was a nightmare in the past

Was because of server issues though which they later said they fixed.

And I dont see how a weekday will make things different... As soon as it is released you will have people spamming the download page.

[OrbitusII]

0.19 was released on March 16th, a Saturday.

edit: Also .14 was released on a Saturday

Two updates released on weekends does not mean that it's what they're going to do from now on. If they said they're not going to release on weekends anymore, that's how it is.

Seriously though, totally looking forward to 0.21! The ocean lag should really help my FPS.

[Superfluous J]

They've stated they won't release on weekends anymore. I'm glad they've kept their word. It was a nightmare in the past

0.19 was released on March 16th, a Saturday.

edit: Also .14 was released on a Saturday

...and now they're not doing it anymore.

Was because of server issues though which they later said they fixed.

And I dont see how a weekday will make things different... As soon as it is released you will have people spamming the download page.

Far less people work on weekends, so there are far less people to help deal with any problems that occur. Also, more people will be playing the game. So, you have more people playing and less people fixing.

[cesarcurado]

If anything, it should make it even better. Either Mu or HarvesteR (I forget which) fixed the ocean lag. It used to cause the majority of lag because it generated it in a strange way.

I have never heard this before but I seriously hope this is true!

Because well, KSP is smooth as butter for me, as long as I'm looking at the stars and my aircraft only.

[Phawks]

I originally thought Squad was getting really serious given how quickly this update cycle went to QA; it was just under a month after the 0.20.2 bugfix and just a month and six days after the release of 0.20.0. However, QA ended up lasting a day shy of two weeks before going to experimentals. Experimentals will have been going for two weeks this Tuesday. Of course, I fully anticipate a release tomorrow, given 1) the amount of time 0.21 has been in testing, and 2) the media release on Friday. Internally, I guarantee you it went into Release Candidate phase Friday morning following bugfixes from the previous experimental version. RC bugfixes are likely being tested over the weekend and committed to the repository, where they will be fixed during the day Monday before a general public release Monday afternoon (as is the tradition with the last several releases) or Tuesday, depending on how much work is ultimately required after this weekend's playtesting.

Yes, yes, I'm speculating. Whatever.

While I appreciate the "Milestone Reached" announcements, which are a great step forward in addressing the transparency issues that have become an issue the last few months, they could be improved by either opening the repository to public viewing and/or posting more documentation following the experimental releases. I understand the NDA everyone higher than the sheep is required to sign, but is this much secrecy really necessary? I don't intend to derail the thread into that argument again, but I think it's worth repeating. Yes, I understand the protection of IP. Yes, I understand we should let the developers focus on what they're doing so we can get a quality release as soon as possible. But there should be at least one eyeball in the mess that can give us a play-by-play. When threads pop up on release speculation, lock them like normal. Maintain the new user probation/moderation review system. It can be done without harming development while giving the playerbase additional information. One thing independent developers are known for is not being evil corporations that keep the players in the dark with the exception of teaser trailers every six months. I think Squad could learn from other developers in this respect. I'm not calling for open-source transparency, but at least being able to watch the ballgame would be nice.

[bigdad84]

snip

Well said

[swiftgates24]

-snip-

KSP has the best community

-snip-

The Orbiter community sure doesn't think so. Also, any of you guys remember that one rule...uh...hmm... it think it had something to do with not speculating release dates, but whatever.

[FITorion]

Who all is in the Media group?

I think either the Forum or the main KSP site should have a page listing them with links to their webpages, twitch feeds, youtube pages... whatever and wherever they post KSP related stuff.

[aceassasin]

Who all is in the Media group?

I think either the Forum or the main KSP site should have a page listing them with links to their webpages, twitch feeds, youtube pages... whatever and wherever they post KSP related stuff.

As far as i know its Danny2462, Pleborian, Scott Manely, and Ryan Turner, also Streetlamppro

Edited July 22, 2013 by aceassasin
forgot one

[OrbitusII]

As far as i know its Danny2462, Pleborian, Scott Manely, and Ryan Turner, also Streetlamppro

Don't forget Harv from HOCGaming!

[Sandworm]

Media teams? I think this puts the nail in the "alpha" coffin. Alpha games do not have media plans for an incremental release. They do not ask reviewers to release teasing vids. That is a characteristics of the developed games who need to build hype and speculation to drive an early wave of sales before the full reviews come in. Alphas are meant to be more open. Squad has time to gather and make deals with vid creators, but doesn't have time to give us a solid features list?

What I find most troublesome is that the news surrounding this release seems too controlled. We are missing something. I have yet to see any mention of the linux build, even in the bug reports. I would hate to see it released untested, as happened last time.

[_Aramchek_]

Media teams? I think this puts the nail in the "alpha" coffin. Alpha games do not have media plans for an incremental release. They do not ask reviewers to release teasing vids. That is a characteristics of the developed games who need to build hype and speculation to drive an early wave of sales before the full reviews come in. Alphas are meant to be more open. Squad has time to gather and make deals with vid creators, but doesn't have time to give us a solid features list?

What I find most troublesome is that the news surrounding this release seems too controlled. We are missing something. I have yet to see any mention of the linux build, even in the bug reports. I would hate to see it released untested, as happened last time.

This forum could use a lot less of this type of dreck.

[Ted]

What I find most troublesome is that the news surrounding this release seems too controlled. We are missing something. I have yet to see any mention of the linux build, even in the bug reports. I would hate to see it released untested, as happened last time.

Don't worry, the Linux builds are being tested alongside the other builds. They're given equal importance and it would not be "released untested", which was far from the case in any previous testing period.

[StarVision]

Don't forget Harv from HOCGaming!

As well as ChickenKeeper24!

[OtherDalfite]

This forum could use a lot less of this type of dreck.

It seems his concern is genuine. Do you have anything to say as to why he is wrong? Linux builds are rarely tested in any game. I also agree that while it is nice to give the community some substance as to what is happening, that it is also bad to make them think it's going to be released any minute, as that leads to an outcry when bugs come up and they can't release it.

[_Aramchek_]

It seems his concern is genuine.

You may think so, however I obviously do not share his insinuation and "concern", and his tin foil hat insinuations don't do a single thing for the community at large...it's just more of the same bs we had a month or so ago.

Dreck.

[OtherDalfite]

You may think so, however I obviously do not share his insinuation and "concern", and his tin foil hat insinuations don't do a single thing for the community at large...it's just more of the same bs we had a month or so ago.

Dreck.

...What BS? Everyone has the right to voice their concern to the community. I've seen myself within the last 5 days that people are going overboard with their hype levels, as border-line ".21 when" threads and even blatantly asking for a release date is a sign of overhyping the community. As young as some of our forum members are, that is bad because they don't really know how to channel their hype other than just asking for a release date.

[Sandworm]

Just search this forum for "linux" and "scroll wheel" to see what I am talking about. The last version was released with such a massive, undetected, bug that it quickly became obvious that Squad had not done any proper linux testing. This was such a snafu that they re-released previous versions to quiet the screaming. There also appear to be serious issued with KSP .20 and ubuntu 13 (see the linux comparability thread).

But my real issue is the tightly controlled release of information. KSP is no longer an "alpha" game if there exists a cadre of testers and reviewers held back by non-disclosure agreements. We are all now beta testers of a beta game. So no more "it's still in alpha" because the version released to the community is no longer the alpha version. The developers have their development versions, the alfa tesing continues behind nondisclosure, and we are all playing the BETA.

Edited July 22, 2013 by Sandworm

[KinkyFerrets]

Just search this forum for "linux" and "scroll wheel" to see what I am talking about. The last version was released with such a massive, undetected, bug that it quickly became obvious that Squad had not done any proper linux testing. This was such a snafu that they re-released previous versions to quiet the screaming. There also appear to be serious issued with KSP .20 and ubuntu 13 (see the linux comparability thread).

But my real issue is the tightly controlled release of information. KSP is no longer an "alpha" game if there exists a cadre of testers and reviewers held back by non-disclosure agreements. We are all now beta testers of a beta game. So no more "it's still in alpha" because the version released to the community is no longer the alpha version. The developers have their development versions, the alfa tesing continues behind nondisclosure, and we are all playing the BETA.

......and?

[Sandworm]

......and?

Because this directly impacts Squad's relationship with the community. A tiered system of releases, cutting edge material for a certain group and monthly releases for the masses, creates new dynamics. Take the subject of this thread. The vary existence of a "media team" incentivises reviewers such as Mr. Manley to act favorably towards the developers, lest they not be granted access to pre-release material in the next round. The inherent trust and inclusiveness of an open Alpha is gone. I would like Squad to return to a more open system whereby the community is kept more up-to-date and we can forget all this hype and guesswork.

That doesn't necessarily mean more/faster releases. It means more, and more specific, information about exactly what we should expect, good or bad. What is currently in and what is not. What do the linux/mac builds look like? Should we expect a drop in FPS during launches given the new KSC? If we are all alpha testers, we shouldn't be kept in the dark about such things.

Edited July 22, 2013 by Sandworm

[tygoo7]

I haven't played ksp for over 2 weeks! I am too excited or 0.21!!!!

[RazorWolf19]

I'd hate to speculate, but I feel like it's happening tomorrow (Monday)....

However, I've been telling myself that every single day since last Monday...

[tygoo7]

I'd hate to speculate, but I feel like it's happening tomorrow (Monday)....

However, I've been telling myself that every single day since last Monday...

Same here, I think its coming tomarrow.

[Temeter]

Because this directly impacts Squad's relationship with the community. A tiered system of releases, cutting edge material for a certain group and monthly releases for the masses, creates new dynamics. For instance, take the subject of this thread. The vary existence of a "media team" incentivises reviewers such as Mr. Manley to act favorably towards the developers, lest they not be granted access to pre-release material in the next round. The inherent trust and inclusiveness of an open Alpha is gone. I would like Squad to return to a more open system whereby the community is kept more up-to-date and we can forget all this hype and guesswork.

That doesn't necessarily mean more/faster releases. It means more, and more specific, information about exactly what we should expect, good or bad. What is currently in and what is not. What do the linux/mac builds look like? Should we expect a drop in FPS during launches given the new KSC? If we are all alpha testers, we shouldn't be kept in the dark about such things.

Hey, that one thread about EA buying Squad was just a joke:)

But seriously, you misunderstood something. The reason Squad went to closed testing is the size of the ksp-community. At this point a possible open test would just result in a massive wave of feedback, which would be just to impractical compared to a smaller, and therefore usually more dedicated testing-group.

As for being open and showing problems, the fact that e.g. scot manley is actually allowed to show beta patch footage was rather surprising to me. Harvester (i think) even posted the earthquake-bug, because he thought it was amusing - it was. There is really no reason to believe squad would get secretive. In contrary, they are one of the most transparent devs i've seen to this point. I can't see why you would suspect a twisted, controlling marketing-machinery behind all of this.

Edited July 22, 2013 by Temeter

[CodatheSpaceFox]

-snip-

I have to agree. The content being worked on as well as testing of things such as linux has certainly been hidden behind a drawn curtain. I do understand some disclosure is necessary to prevent masses from digging their desires into progress. You can't please everyone after all, but this level now is clearly a bit too hidden to be considered Alpha.

Experimental team, media team, development releases. Squad seems to be clinging to their name rather tightly as of late. It's almost enough to draw one back from taking this game more than just a brilliant idea turned into a lesser brilliant series of events.

Even if it is Beta, honestly. Showing the list of bugs handled is applauded by those who take interest in what they're invested in. Sure, an infestation of issues is nothing good to look at, but seeing them resolved shows that they're paying attention. Take Minecraft for example, they literally prod people to find bugs for them even after official release, and their snapshots are open to all, not selectively.

I may have strayed a bit, I tend to do that, but Squad's taking a lesser appreciated road rather steadily.