[WIP] Space Launch System (SLS) and ORION (MPCV)

[Stevincent]

Seeing as how it's still WIP and you've got a bunch of folks willing to beta test (myself included) I'd say release the parts piecemeal. And add the caveat like shadowsutekh mentioned, and also note that future updates may break crafts. When you get ready to release you can set up a thread in the releases section.

Honestly I'd say probably 90% of what I've learned from cfg files I have learned reading through BobCat's, CORE, KW, and NovaPunch cfgs. BobCat and CORE's cfgs taught me how CoMOffset works to help balance heavy loads on top of a booster, and looking at stuff like the KW fairing bases helped me learn how the attach node coordinate system works. I also learned a lot from UbioZur's 'welded' parts using the MODEL nodes, that you can assemble a module that the game sees as a single 'part' that physics acts on as a whole (like right now I am developing the Mars Transfer Vehicle frame like the one in this video:

), but doing so using off-the-shelf parts (since I fail at Blender). Right now I think I am using stuff from NovaPunch and the RogerCorp girder pack (which I had to do the PART {} wrapper to bring into .21) Bac9's B9 pack is also a great place, because of the way he re-uses textures and models - you can basically create multiple rescales of a part just by adding multiple configs in the same folder as the model and texture. This way the game only loads the model and texture once.

Ive actually been considering of building the mars transfer vehicle to be used with the SLS as a project down the line. But its something I will most likely be doing or atleast modeling. Ive been looking at bobcasts CFGs and I just get confused because Im not really sure what Im looking at and what they are referencing when it comes to unity what needs to be unity so the config can recognize it you know? Took me forever to figure out how to get my core stage off the ground. it is a bit overwhelming for me right now, since i am trying to learn unity for KSP and UDK and max right now for school. But I guess Ill have to rip the Configs a part. But thanks for the tips im going to check out some of those peoples configs. and since we are on the topic what is COMOffset I tried googling it and didnt get much lol.

[Stevincent]

Real world, you have to use rockets of some sort for all staging events because explosive bolts just shear themselves, they don't actually give any "push" and springs big enough to impart any serious dV on stages would be too big and heavy.

The Delta & Atlas rockets use a combination of retro rockets and ullage thrusting of RCS to execute their separations, so I would imagine that SLS will be similar.

Yeah I saw them on the delta and the atlas but I havent seen anything for the SLS like the style or location of them.

[Unikraken]

I sincerely hope you push out the Orion before school catches up with you.

[Papamidnight305]

Look at the Ares V, I saw retro rockets on that when the first stage separated.

[Stevincent]

Look at the Ares V, I saw retro rockets on that when the first stage separated.

Yeah I've looked at the ares v, but these two arent the same, and Im not sure if they will be styled the same anyway, ill probably build something up similar to the ares for separation. Right now in the SLS videos they dont have any sort of separation boosters they just coast away using rcs. so who knows.

Edited August 16, 2013 by Stevincent

[Stevincent]

UVs complete, going to start modeling the Advanced Rocket Booster now, and tweak the SRB a bit. Im going to try and get a release onto spaceport this weeked, I want to have the SRBS done and the 3rd Stage done, and a payload adapter. Ill keep you guys up to date.

[shadowsutekh]

Oh god, color by numbers went 3d!

Anyways nice! Lots of respect for making things for the community.

[MainSailor]

and since we are on the topic what is COMOffset I tried googling it and didnt get much lol.

Part of this I think has to do with the origin coordinates from the way the part is brought into Unity. A lot of the time the actual center of the part model is where KSP calculates the center of mass of the part once it's brought into the VAB. Because of this, rocket boosters that have a large payload will have a high center of mass and then your rocket will not be as stable as a balanced rocket would be.

I want to say that BobCat's method is to set the orientation (so 0, 0, 0) to the base of the rocket (say, the Ares V booster, which is a mono-block part like your core stage, the fuel tanks and engines are one piece.) So if you bring up the part in the VAB and show the center of mass, the node is all the way at the bottom, and then when you add a large payload, you'll see the COM is moved upwards.

What the CoMOffset line in the cfg does is allow you to manually move the center of mass point away from it's default position in the model. I've had an issue with lighter payloads on Absolution's CORE series, where lighter payloads didn't move the COM up far enough and had issues maneuvering during launch (and even, if it made it that far, at maneuver nodes.)

The way that CoMOffset works is just like the attachment node coordinates work...you have to add (or subtract) along one of the axes.

So, as an arbitrary example, say you have an object that has a low center of gravity. It's 5 meters high, and the COM is at 0, 0, 0 (where, in this example, the top of the part would be 0, 0, 5.) If I wanted to perfectly center it, I'd add this to the cfg:

CoMOffset = 0, 0, 2.5

...because we want to move the point up (plus) the Z axis.

Note that just like attachment nodes this doesn't just work along Z axis. You can move the center of mass on a radially attached part to help bring it more towards the thrust axis, which would help balance something say, like a shuttle configuration.

Im not really sure what Im looking at and what they are referencing when it comes to unity what needs to be unity so the config can recognize it you know? Took me forever to figure out how to get my core stage off the ground.

Are you talking about the nodes you have to add for thrust? I believe you have to add an empty object in Unity where you want the 'flame' to be so to speak, and then this is tied in with thrustTransform. Don't take my word for it though as I never got that far with Unity, but there's plenty of other modelers which would be able to provide better assistance in that regard.

Ive actually been considering of building the mars transfer vehicle to be used with the SLS as a project down the line. But its something I will most likely be doing or atleast modeling.

That would be really cool. I know the Lionhead guys were talking about it but the project got shelved and I'm not sure if it's still on the plate. So far my 'carrier frame' is a weak approximation, just the fairing plates from NovaPunch with a couple of girders on each side to support, and I've added some attachment nodes to the plates so I can add habitation pods and fuel tanks and whatnot. It'd be great to have a really proper model made.

Edited August 16, 2013 by MainSailor
Cleaned up technical things.

[Stevincent]

Oh that makes sense, about the comoffset, thanks for explaining it to me

Yeah it took me a while to figure out the thrust transform thing but I got it down though

Now I just have to figure out how to do the gimbal and emissive texture stuff and ill be good well atleast on the engines.

The mars transfer vehicle looks like it would be a lot of work but it would be a lot of fun in game.

[MainSailor]

Now I just have to figure out how to do the gimbal and emissive texture stuff and ill be good well atleast on the engines.

For what it's worth you can enable gimballing in the cfg and it will work in the game (you can see the thrust move, and the ship will steer) without changing the model. I know there are guys animating the engine bell for gimballing but I think you have to have two models (one for the pumps and structure and whatnot, and another for the engine bell itself.) I don't have any idea how to set this up in Unity though.

I don't know if the RS-25s on the SLS will have the same degree of gimbal as the Shuttle versions, but I think those had something like 10° of movement which is something you'd probably want to visually simulate if you were going to total realism. Honestly during a launch I'm not really staring at the engine so if it didn't animate I wouldn't really be upset.

Oh that makes sense, about the comoffset, thanks for explaining it to me

Hey no problem man, any time I can help.

[Stevincent]

ok here is the reworked SRB and the Advanced SRB. Ill probably get these two and the 3rd stage J-2X in game by the end of the weekend, I just have to low-polyfy them. The textures shouldnt be too hard, but I may just put some place holder textures or something so I can get something out so we can play around with them, and work on balancing while I work on the textures for them.

[henrik908]

ok here is the reworked SRB and the Advanced SRB. Ill probably get these two and the 3rd stage J-2X in game by the end of the weekend, I just have to low-polyfy them. The textures shouldnt be too hard, but I may just put some place holder textures or something so I can get something out so we can play around with them, and work on balancing while I work on the textures for them.

Good Job , this is awesome

[Razorcane]

I have the RS-25 down to 2600 poly's and the low poly version I have at about 200 I believe maybe less.

here is the 2600 version model

Oh, so you aren't using the 2600 poly version. But you know, you don't have to go as low as 200. You could easily get away with 500, thought probably not much more unless you want this to only be used on high-end rigs.

[Stevincent]

Oh, so you aren't using the 2600 poly version. But you know, you don't have to go as low as 200. You could easily get away with 500, thought probably not much more unless you want this to only be used on high-end rigs.

I have the 2600 poly version in game right now, but the 200 poly version is all I need to project all the details onto from the high poly version. And what you mean not much more than 500, even KSP uses more in their stock parts. The LV-T30 uses atleast 1000 And I'm almost 100% sure people use more than one of those on their rockets. But as I said Ill be making low poly versions so people could enjoy them, but saying more than 500 is reserved for high end rigs is ridiculous since the game uses parts that are more than 500 polys.

Edited August 16, 2013 by Stevincent

[OrianCEV]

you're right,but instead of the Ares-5,you're making a whole Space Launch Systems,in the future when we use the SLS for other things than the orian,you could one of those other things!Keep on working!

[Stevincent]

you're right,but instead of the Ares-5,you're making a whole Space Launch Systems,in the future when we use the SLS for other things than the orian,you could one of those other things!Keep on working!

Sure am!! LOL thanks!

Ok here you go guys, I have the SRB, Advanced Rocket Booster, and the J-2X Stage UV'd and ready to bring into the game, these are the high poly versions I knocked a lot of polys off of them from the original models so hopefully everything will run well in game. I should have them in tomorrow with just temporary placement textures so expect a release this weekend .

[Stevincent]

couldnt get any sleep, decided to mess around with the temporary texture, this is what I came up with lol.

[Guest]

Those models looks great. However, you might want to split off the nosecone and tiny bottom tubes on the Shuttle SRB. Separation boosters are located there, and you obviously need to stage them separately from the main.

[Stevincent]

Those models looks great. However, you might want to split off the nosecone and tiny bottom tubes on the Shuttle SRB. Separation boosters are located there, and you obviously need to stage them separately from the main.

I have the nosecone as a separate part right now, but I wanted to keep the bottom boosters attached and have them stage separately from the main. Thanks for the complement

[Guest]

Well, the problem is, when you trigger the SRB from the staging list, all of it's engine modules will fire. If you keep the sep motors attached, they'll rip the craft apart unless you use action groups (a less than ideal solution).

[Stevincent]

I thought tht could be remedied through the config. Bobcats core stage on his American pack has separation boosters that fire separately I believe from the main engine. Ill have to check to be sure.

[Mr. Pseudonym]

couldnt get any sleep, decided to mess around with the temporary texture, this is what I came up with lol.

You should seriously keep that texture as an option for download. That looks awesome!

[Stevincent]

I thought tht could be remedied through the config. Bobcats core stage on his American pack has separation boosters that fire separately I believe from the main engine. Ill have to check to be sure.

yeah I think you are right... i just checked bobcats and it isnt on the same stage. So ill probably seperate them which is not a big problem. Thanks for pointing that out!

You should seriously keep that texture as an option for download. That looks awesome!

haha ill add it if you like it lol.

[Mr. Pseudonym]

-snip- haha ill add it if you like it lol.

I think somewhere someone posted a pic of the Liberty Rocket, and I remember it, but here's a picture of it anyway.

But the booster looks like that, and that's kind of cool.

[frizzank]

I have the 2600 poly version in game right now, but the 200 poly version is all I need to project all the details onto from the high poly version. And what you mean not much more than 500, even KSP uses more in their stock parts. The LV-T30 uses at least 1000 And I'm almost 100% sure people use more than one of those on their rockets. But as I said Ill be making low poly versions so people could enjoy them, but saying more than 500 is reserved for high end rigs is ridiculous since the game uses parts that are more than 500 polys.

Polys are not the issue they use to be, you could push through 8k and 16k meshes and no one would even notice. The physics calculations and their collision meshes are much more important than their visible poly count!

You can do a quick test and see what im talking about. Create a 100k poly sphere, and put a simple low poly mesh collision on it, and you still have a solid frame rate.

Now do the opposite, low poly visual, and a high poly collision. Your frame rate will noticeably drop! Why, because our graphics cards are very good at pushing polys to our eyes, not so much for collision...