Munar Ninja Warrior (or The Great Puddle Jumping Challenge)

[capi3101]

Greetings, all. First challenge. I'm pretty sure this hasn't been done before, but someone will no doubt inform me (harshly, no doubt) if I'm mistaken.

This notion came to me today after a post in the How-To forum a few days ago wherein someone asked how much delta-v would be required to do two 40 kilometer "hops" with a lander (i.e. to fly forty kilometers over the Munar surface without going back into orbit first). That, and after taking a look at kerbalmaps.com earlier today (great tool by the way if, like me, you haven't found where all the easter eggs are and really can't be bothered enough to try and find them).

So, the challenge is this: design a lander that can:

A) Visit as many anomalies on Mun as possible in a single mission. By "visiting", I mean "put a lander within five kilometers of the anomaly on the first try."

Do this without achieving orbit in-between anomaly visits and without refueling at any point during the mission.

C) Return to Kerbin afterwards, again without refueling.

Participants are not allowed to use rover wheels or landing gear on their designs; lander legs are fine. No use of the debug console is allowed as well.

Points for the challenge are as follows:

Landing Accuracy

Each unique Mun anomaly visited : 20 points (has to be Mun; other bodies do not count. To count as "visited", the lander must land within five kilometers of an anomaly on one try).

Landing within 3 kilometers of an anomaly: +10 points

Landing within 1 kilometer of an anomaly: +20 points

Landing within 100 meters of an anomaly: +30 points

Special Case: the Anomaly at -82.2063x102.9305

Landing within 5 kilometers: +15 points

Landing within 3 kilometers: +30 points

Bonus Points

No parts broken off the lander at any point during the mission: 25 points

Launch the lander and then successfully return it to Kerbin under its own power (i.e. no ferries): 25 points

Stock parts only: 25 points

Manual control only (i.e. no autopilots): 25 points

Entrants should report the total amount of fuel expended in their attempt and number of anomalies visited; this data will be used to break ties. Pics or it didn't happen.

Maximum score is 500 points. Good luck.

CURRENT LEADERS:

None

Edited July 29, 2013 by capi3101

[Eric S]

I like it, even if I am bad at those hops :-)

[zarakon]

Why is reaching orbit between destinations against the rules? Does it give some advantage that I haven't thought of? Seems like it would already be undesirable just because it would be inefficient.

[Toastie_Buns]

Why is reaching orbit between destinations against the rules? Does it give some advantage that I haven't thought of? Seems like it would already be undesirable just because it would be inefficient.

Ain't hopping if you're travelling round in a circle.

@:OP

Any requirements for this 'lander'?

I use quotations because technically any spaceship can 'land' on any zero atmosphere planet/moon, carry enough fuel to make multiple journeys AND require little piloting skill. Are you thinking more that we should make a platform to ferry a lander there and back? Or is the lander itself making the entire journey?

[capi3101]

Why is reaching orbit between destinations against the rules? Does it give some advantage that I haven't thought of? Seems like it would already be undesirable just because it would be inefficient.

The intent of the challenge is to test people's piloting and navigational skills. Any newb could land, get back into an orbit and then go to another surface destination; it takes skill and careful planning to hit a target ballistically. You're absolutely right in saying that going back into orbit would be inefficient. It also wouldn't be very challenging.

Edited July 24, 2013 by capi3101

[capi3101]

@:OP

Any requirements for this 'lander'?

I use quotations because technically any spaceship can 'land' on any zero atmosphere planet/moon, carry enough fuel to make multiple journeys AND require little piloting skill. Are you thinking more that we should make a platform to ferry a lander there and back? Or is the lander itself making the entire journey?

Good question. My intent was that the lander itself would make the entire journey (launch, go to the Mun, land, hop, hop, hop, then return to Kerbin); the way I wrote the rules, though, I don't see why you couldn't ferry a lander to Mun. Maybe I should change that...

EDIT: I've changed the wording of the "Return to Kerbin" bonus; that about cover it, you think?

Edited July 24, 2013 by capi3101

[Johnno]

You might want to disallow rover wheels and the 'plane' landing gear.

Also you'll want to add a note saying no debug console, otherwise some will take that as an invite to hack gravity or turn on infinite fuel.

As for flying/navigational skills, I'd say this challenge is moreso about building an efficient / high delta-v craft. Some of the anomalies are hard to spot from altitude, so you'll be flying by map anyway before a landing (hence you'll need to check locations). Most 'newbs' can barely make it to Mün, even less make a pinpoint landing. Making a ship capable of reaching orbit between each try and then do a pinpoint landing over and over would be harder in my opinion than ballistic hops, considering the delta-v requirements of plane changes in orbit to say the least.

I'd join this challenge, but I prefer to find the anomalies on my own, without maps. Shall be interesting to follow attempts though, especially designwise.

[zarakon]

No parts are allowed to break off, but does that include intentional staging or drop-tanks?

[capi3101]

No parts are allowed to break off, but does that include intentional staging or drop-tanks?

You can use stages if you like. You only lose points if things come off that aren't supposed to.

You might want to disallow rover wheels and the 'plane' landing gear.

Because they have higher impact tolerance and can be repaired if they do break. Yeah, good idea.

Also you'll want to add a note saying no debug console, otherwise some will take that as an invite to hack gravity or turn on infinite fuel.

I can do that too. The original rules said "no navigation aids of any sort", but then you get into the issue of what constitutes a "navigational aid". Somebody who'd found all the anomalies and planted flags nearby would be instantaneously hosed...

[capi3101]

I realize it's common courtesy for the player issuing a challenge to attempt to do it themselves. I'll just say "I'm trying" at the moment and leave it at that...yesterday was rough.

[zarakon]

I realize it's common courtesy for the player issuing a challenge to attempt to do it themselves. I'll just say "I'm trying" at the moment and leave it at that...yesterday was rough.

Really, the guideline is for people to just make sure that their challenge is possible before posting it, so that we get less stupid things like "get to orbit with only ion engines" or "construct a ring around Kerbin". Yours is clearly possible, so it's not really an issue, IMO

[zarakon]

I've been going around planting flags at all the Mun anomalies, partly because I haven't found them all before, and partly to prepare for an attempt at this challenge.

Turns out a maximum score of 500 is impossible!

This monolith was a royal pain to find, because it's suspended in the air above the center of a giant pit, 3-4km deep and 1km in radius!

So unless you manage to land ON the monolith with your lander, it's impossible to land within 1km of this one

[capi3101]

Oof. That's a problem...

I'll have to give this some thought so I can adjust the scoring; I haven't really got the time to do that today. What are the planetary coordinates of this one?

[zarakon]

that one is -82.2063 : 102.9305 on http://www.kerbalmaps.com/

i haven't checked out all of them yet

[capi3101]

I haven't had time to check yet...did any of the anomalies move with 0.21, or are they all still there?

EDIT: Nevermind, just checked kerbalmaps. I've adjusted the scoring for that anomaly.

Edited July 29, 2013 by capi3101

[zarakon]

All three of the monoliths have issues.

- The one I posted earlier, floating above the giant hole

- Another one is under the ground at the bottom of a similar giant hole.

- The third one is under the ground, but with otherwise normal terrain around it.

The other five anomalies are normal though.

[capi3101]

Under the ground? Makes spotting them a might difficult, I'd imagine...how far underground are we talking about?