So, we have Permadeath now.

[Cronos988]

Jebediah Kerman is dead. K.I.A. on a SSTO spaceplane test that went poorly. And I kinda feel very bad about that.

You see, while I did know that we now have an actual crew on the craft that we can select, in my drive to test out the new SAS features and looks of the base, I launched a spaceplane and flew it around a bit, see what it would do. I did not pay attention to the crew loadout yet. The spaceplane eventually crashed. Thats not a big deal, I thought, happened dozens of times before. Except now, I suddenly have a Crew member who is permanently dead. Not just any crew member, either, but the most iconic of all Kerbals. I feel like I would have liked a warning before I go ahead and start actually killing Kerbals in what were completely normal "simulation" flights before.

Now, I actually quite like the idea that we know actually have to care for the crew, build failsafe emergency systems etc. It adds a nice new design challenge and a touch of realism to the game. However, this being a sandbox mode, I do feel that there is a certain pressure on me now. No longer will I be able to just "test" a new Rocket quickly to see if any parts come off. Because if I do, that means a couple more names on the "lost" list in the KSC. I know dead Kerbals really don't matter in any way right now, but I will still feel bad about just ignoring them.

What do you think about the matter? Do you feel bad about the Kerbals you accidentially killed in your current save?

[lammatt]

well... you can always edit the .sfs file

state = 3 is death

state = 0 is available

(dunno if there's any other parameter for that line yet)

[nAssailant]

I always felt bad about (accidentally ) killing my Kerbals, now I just have a reminder about every one I've lost in the Kerbalnaut center. I usually have failsafes built in to all of my craft, and now I've started attaching the remote guidance parts to all of my craft so I can do some "unmanned" flights to test before strapping any Kerbals in. Jeb, Bill and Bob only get to fly the safest, most rigorously tested craft before going anywhere.

[lammatt]

I always felt bad about (accidentally ) killing my Kerbals, now I just have a reminder about every one I've lost in the Kerbalnaut center. I usually have failsafes built in to all of my craft, and now I've started attaching the remote guidance parts to all of my craft so I can do some "unmanned" flights to test before strapping any Kerbals in. Jeb, Bill and Bob only get to fly the safest, most rigorously tested craft before going anywhere.

i locked them in my space prison....i mean space station... once i updated the game so that i cant kill them

[MalfunctionM1Ke]

I have read or heard in a live stream, that Jeb, Bill & Bop will come back over time.

Anyways, now i start to retrieve them from the planets if they have been stranded.

[Corsha]

He's not gone for ever.

He will be back once they release the Kerbal Zombie Invasion DLC.

[Evan]

I was worried about this too, but for testing crafts such as planes and rockets, I've been using the "Revert to Spaceplane Hangar" or "Revert to Vehicle Assembly" options in the end-flight dialogue. I have found this to be way better than the previous system, because it reverts the game timer as well as the flight, so it acts as if the test flight never happened in your persistence file.

However, for longer test missions (such as interplanetary tests), I created a new save file labelled "test."

[giltirn]

Phew, I also managed to kill Jeb while trying to land my SSTO - I'm glad he will be reanimated!

[Cronos988]

I was worried about this too, but for testing crafts such as planes and rockets, I've been using the "Revert to Spaceplane Hangar" or "Revert to Vehicle Assembly" options in the end-flight dialogue. I have found this to be way better than the previous system, because it reverts the game timer as well as the flight, so it acts as if the test flight never happened in your persistence file.

However, for longer test missions (such as interplanetary tests), I created a new save file labelled "test."

Unfortunately, if you happened to exit the game (or, as it was in my case, your PC crashes) after reaching orbit (which means the game will have been saved) there is no revert flight option for you. It is do or die then, no way out of it.

As I said, I am not against the feature, it is just that it came so sudden, it feels like a bit of a sucker punch when you first realize the new danger but it's already too late.

[Jarnis]

...and that's why any new games begin with hiring of some fresh meat! Star astronauts will be used only on highly tested and verified-to-be-safe contraptions. Until then, Scott Kerman and his pals get to try them out!

I prefer to use the ones that are exceedingly stupid for first flight tests.

[Corw]

Unfortunately, if you happened to exit the game (or, as it was in my case, your PC crashes) after reaching orbit (which means the game will have been saved) there is no revert flight option for you. It is do or die then, no way out of it.

As I said, I am not against the feature, it is just that it came so sudden, it feels like a bit of a sucker punch when you first realize the new danger but it's already too late.

Read the patch notes next time and start new save. Crybaby.

[Danger Will Kerbinson!]

After I heard about the crew recycling I attempted to do some science and see if there was a certain number of recruits to cycle through before Jeb, Bob and Bill were 'found' since it does not say dead on the crew manifest, it says "missing in action".

So I built the "Free Candy" special death machine to speed up the process. It can kill all 10 of the original recruit pool in one launch, very efficient.

But in the end I learned only 2 things.

1. After you kill the first 10 you only get 9 more lined up to try the next launch, evidently there is one kerbal with a stupidity rating of zero.

2. After launch 2 was 'completed' into the ground next to the pad I returned to the space center but could not access any of the buildings, evidently I had been locked out for some reason...can't imagine why, I mean science right?

Truth is it locked up hard, maybe random but its the first game crash I have ever had that required the task manager to get out of.

I will try again later, cause you know...science.

Edited July 25, 2013 by Danger Will Kerbinson!

[PirateCat]

I prefer to use the ones that are exceedingly stupid for first flight tests.

My pool had one with full bravery and full stupidity. He seemed to me to be the ideal test pilot.

[0x7be]

However, this being a sandbox mode, I do feel that there is a certain pressure on me now. No longer will I be able to just "test" a new Rocket quickly to see if any parts come off.

What do you think about the matter? Do you feel bad about the Kerbals you accidentially killed in your current save?

Even before permadeath build in the game itself I had a habit of testing all spacecrafts without crew first.

In fact I'am strond proponent of automated spacecrafts, so it comes easy with my mentality

[manskal]

I actually try to build in escape systems for all my crewed missions, even before permadeath.

However, when disaster really strikes, well, bugger all, they always seem to make it worse and crash Jeb with an even larger explosion.

But I guess thats a pretty close semblance to an actual Kerbal escape system.

[Tiron]

well... you can always edit the .sfs file

state = 3 is death

state = 0 is available

(dunno if there's any other parameter for that line yet)

Given the massive overhauls to the crew system, I'd want to look at a persistence file and test a bit before I suggested doing that. I've seen one report from a guy that may have slightly broken his game editing his persistence file to bring a kerbal back to life.

Another thing you can try if you haven't launched any more flights, is that it autosaves automatically each time a new flight is started. It saves it as Autosave.sfs, right next to Persistent.sfs. It's actually an entire, second persistence file, just with a different name and keyed to F9 to load it (just DON'T load a new flight onto the pad to load it, it'll overwrite the old autosave with the new one for that flight). You can in fact rename/move Persistence.sfs, and rename Autosave.sfs to persistent.sfs.

If you do that with the game closed (or at least sitting on the main menu, if you're in flight or in the space center it'll get overwritten with the in-progress save when you exit the game/go to the main menu), next time you load your save it'll automatically load up with the autosave.

[Doc.Solveberg]

I don't understand why this system has been implemented into Sandbox mode, it seems more fitting with career mode.

[Corw]

I don't understand why this system has been implemented into Sandbox mode, it seems more fitting with career mode.

Have you tried career mode?

[Doc.Solveberg]

Have you tried career mode?

Career mod isn't implemented yet. I mean you can't even select it.

[Travisfv]

I just revert back. There is no way I'm losing pilots due to being unable to land. I will say that the new SAS doesn't like landings, and turning it off just makes me spin.

[Tiron]

Unfortunately, if you happened to exit the game (or, as it was in my case, your PC crashes) after reaching orbit (which means the game will have been saved) there is no revert flight option for you. It is do or die then, no way out of it.

As I said, I am not against the feature, it is just that it came so sudden, it feels like a bit of a sucker punch when you first realize the new danger but it's already too late.

Unless they've changed the behavior, it autosaves every time a craft is first loaded onto the pad/runway. The 'revert to launch' is basically just loading the autosave. You can do it manually by holding F9, just don't load a new craft onto the pad/runway to do it.

[skyace65]

bill bob and jeb will all come back after 1 day ingame

[Ming]

I don't understand why this system has been implemented into Sandbox mode, it seems more fitting with career mode.

My thoughts exactly. Sandbox, with the addition of crew mortality logging, has now moved away from pure design and testing to a quasi career environment. Please leave the crew stuff for the future Career mode and leave the Sandbox for hardware design/refinement and kinetic physics analysis.

Edited July 25, 2013 by Ming

[Tiron]

My thoughts exactly. Sandbox, with the addition of crew mortality logging, has now moved away from pure design and testing to a quasi career environment. Please leave the crew stuff for the future Career mode and leave the Sandbox for hardware design and physics testing.

Ummm...it'd been in for quite awhile, it just wasn't so obvious. The names, stats, and statuses of all crew members has been stored in persistent.sfs all along, there just wasn't an ingame interface to see it. If a kerbal was killed, their status code was changed to '3', only used for dead kerbals, and their 'ToD' field was changed to the time that they were killed at. They still stayed in the persistence file, though, even as replacements were added.

The functionality itself really hasn't changed, just the particular implementation of it, and they've added a UI that lets you see the stuff that was already there.

I'd been looking at it in notepad anyway... I do manual persistence and craft file hacking occasionally, usually to fix something that broke. (IE: Earlier I hacked a craft file to remove mod parts from it, to determine which one was breaking the game. It was mechjeb, as it turned out, since fixed).

Edit: Just to point out, the only really 'new' thing that isn't just a UI, mechanics-wise, is that it gives you a list of kerbals and lets you pick which ones to put on the flight team, instead of just automatically generating a new one when it was needed.

Edited July 25, 2013 by Tiron

[ASnogarD]

You guys seriously crying because you lost Jeb / Bill / Bob ? If you are that attached to those guys , dont put them in any craft... with the new feature to hire and lose Kerbals comes the great ability to pick and choose which ones go into your death crates, or failing that you can simply start another save.

Complaining about losing a few Kerbals in sandbox mode in a game that is still in development is rather inane to be honest, especially since at this time you could of not done more than 1 days worth of playing at the most.