So, we have Permadeath now.

[HarvesteR]

I think a slightly critical piece of info slipped past untold... Whether or not crews can respawn is a toggleable difficulty setting now, which admittedly lacks a UI toggle switch, but is already definable on the save file. Have a look at the Parameters section and you'll find it.

The default setting (for now) does allow crews to respawn, so even if you do end up with a favorite Kerbal on the "lost" list, if the game parameters allow it, they'll come back to life eventually.

Cheers

[Ming]

Ummm...it'd been in for quite awhile, it just wasn't so obvious. The names, stats, and statuses of all crew members has been stored in persistent.sfs all along, there just wasn't an ingame interface to see it. If a kerbal was killed, their status code was changed to '3', only used for dead kerbals, and their 'ToD' field was changed to the time that they were killed at. They still stayed in the persistence file, though, even as replacements were added.

The functionality itself really hasn't changed, just the particular implementation of it, and they've added a UI that lets you see the stuff that was already there.

I'd been looking at it in notepad anyway... I do manual persistence and craft file hacking occasionally, usually to fix something that broke. (IE: Earlier I hacked a craft file to remove mod parts from it, to determine which one was breaking the game. It was mechjeb, as it turned out, since fixed).

Edit: Just to point out, the only really 'new' thing that isn't just a UI, mechanics-wise, is that it gives you a list of kerbals and lets you pick which ones to put on the flight team, instead of just automatically generating a new one when it was needed.

Point well taken. I should have been more specific and indicated that it's the new "crew layering" (which acts upon the logging) that I don't like. By layering I mean the additional menu choices and so on. I, and from what I've read on this forum, don't want to consider the ramifications of crew loss. Rather, I just want a pure hardware testing platform like it was prior to .21.

[rryy]

I put Jeb, Bill, and Bob in a little protective box by the launchpad for this reason. They can't escape, but they do have a good view of rocket launches/crashes.

[Jarnis]

I put Jeb, Bill, and Bob in a little protective box by the launchpad for this reason. They can't escape, but they do have a good view of rocket launches/crashes.

Next to launchpad?

Hope no randomly loose booster flying out of control hits it...

[Cydonian Monk]

I put Jeb, Bill, and Bob in a little protective box by the launchpad for this reason. They can't escape, but they do have a good view of rocket launches/crashes.

Next to the launchpad? Whenever I've done that, the crafts only ever make it through two or three launches before they clip through the terrain map and explode..... Seems more like a form of torture than protection.

[Spartwo]

WAIT WHAT!!!but Iv'e already killed about 40 of the little guys.but somehow not bill,bob or jeb

Edited July 25, 2013 by Spartwo

[ramses]

I think this is fantastic! Brings some reality to the game. Really can't wait for Career mode.

[rryy]

Next to launchpad?

Hope no randomly loose booster flying out of control hits it...

Don't worry, they have crash-protection. I crashed a rocket into the box, and the game crashed!

[Firenexus13]

i locked them in my space prison....i mean space station... once i updated the game so that i cant kill them

Nope, because what happens if a docking goes wrong. Jeb = dead.

And, there will probably be a re-spawn mod.

[Motokid600]

After I heard about the crew recycling I attempted to do some science and see if there was a certain number of recruits to cycle through before Jeb, Bob and Bill were 'found' since it does not say dead on the crew manifest, it says "missing in action".

So I built the "Free Candy" special death machine to speed up the process. It can kill all 10 of the original recruit pool in one launch, very efficient.

But in the end I learned only 2 things.

1. After you kill the first 10 you only get 9 more lined up to try the next launch, evidently there is one kerbal with a stupidity rating of zero.

2. After launch 2 was 'completed' into the ground next to the pad I returned to the space center but could not access any of the buildings, evidently I had been locked out for some reason...can't imagine why, I mean science right?

Truth is it locked up hard, maybe random but its the first game crash I have ever had that required the task manager to get out of.

I will try again later, cause you know...science.

That happened to me too. I was locked out of the KSC. Couldn't click on any buildings. Just move the camera around. Exited to the menu to find the same thing. Couldn't click on anything

[magnemoe]

That happened to me too. I was locked out of the KSC. Couldn't click on any buildings. Just move the camera around. Exited to the menu to find the same thing. Couldn't click on anything

Makes some sense that if you kill a lots of kerbals fast you lose the game. The kerbal government accept some losses and rover accidents are natural events, however huge losses like losing capital ships are very unpopular.

[mellojoe]

Under the tab: LOST, is there not a way to revive dead Kerbals?

[way2smrt]

I'm attached to any Kerbals i used in missions, even the stupid ones even though that the only difference between Kerbals is one line of text above their heads.

[inigma]

Time to create a save file just for testing designs!

[Arran]

I allready used alot the Abort Action group setup, but in 0.21 in untested rockets, its the first thing i setup now as a safety measure.

Allready had 2 flights that saved my green fellows little butts now, i want too keep my death ratio too a absolute minumum, Currently still at zero.

[Erixxxx]

I think a slightly critical piece of info slipped past untold... Whether or not crews can respawn is a toggleable difficulty setting now, which admittedly lacks a UI toggle switch, but is already definable on the save file. Have a look at the Parameters section and you'll find it.

The default setting (for now) does allow crews to respawn, so even if you do end up with a favorite Kerbal on the "lost" list, if the game parameters allow it, they'll come back to life eventually.

Cheers

Ooooh, that's awesome.

[Herbert McCheese-Wang]

Does this mean that I can only crash 13 times?

[Kromey]

I've always been attached to my Kerbals, and always maintained one "real" save, and one "simulation" save; the latter was where KSC supercomputers were fed design specifications and ran test simulations to estimate rocket performance, the former where all the "real science" took place. Nothing in the "simulation" save mattered, and as a result I only ever lost 2 Kerbals "for realsies" (one was in a botched spaceplane landing (I'm so sorry, Jeb!!), the other a random act of explodeyness on the launchpad -- KSC supercomputers can't account for every single permutation in the real world!).

I think the new crew list feature is sweet, and I can't wait to get my new space program (I like to start over with each major new release) off the ground!

[Tiron]

I've always been attached to my Kerbals, and always maintained one "real" save, and one "simulation" save; the latter was where KSC supercomputers were fed design specifications and ran test simulations to estimate rocket performance, the former where all the "real science" took place. Nothing in the "simulation" save mattered, and as a result I only ever lost 2 Kerbals "for realsies" (one was in a botched spaceplane landing (I'm so sorry, Jeb!!), the other a random act of explodeyness on the launchpad -- KSC supercomputers can't account for every single permutation in the real world!).

I think the new crew list feature is sweet, and I can't wait to get my new space program (I like to start over with each major new release) off the ground!

I used to just design a lot of safety systems into my designs (no decouplers for the cockpits in the B9 Aerospace pack is one of the main reasons I don't use it), and do some cheatyness if something goes really wrong.

Now though...Unmanned test flights of a manned design...or just use the cannon fodder instead of the prime crews. (IE: I Hired a bunch of dumb ones to use on really dangerous stuff).

[Kromey]

Now though...Unmanned test flights of a manned design...or just use the cannon fodder instead of the prime crews. (IE: I Hired a bunch of dumb ones to use on really dangerous stuff).

Yeah, I do a lot of unmanned flights to learn things for myself, such as basic orbital insertions (and, later, safe returns), low-gravity no-atmo landings (i.e. Mun, Minmus), etc. Only after I feel I've mastered the basics do I start to risk manned crews to follow in their robotic footsteps.