[1.0.2] NovaPunch 2.09. - May 6th - 1.0 Compatibility Update

[Tiberion]

Perhaps you could also release a pack with the updated textures, but the original .cfg files, for those of us who were designing ships to use the original performance figures?

I don\'t think I will, mostly because the changes weren\'t that big, aside from some weird ultra-weak tanks. This initial standardization pass was done to stay as close to the old pack as possible while making everything make sense together, and will remain available after I do make bigger changes for actual balance/playability.

Add to that - all current save files are going Bye-bye with .13 so we\'ll all be remaking any ships, its a bit of wasted effort.

That said, the old values are published in the google spreadsheet in the OP, so they are readily there for anyone that WANTS to do so, and if someone wanted to re-edit everything I would post/host the file as an \'addon/mod\' for the pack.

To do it;

Create new copy of NP parts folder

Delete everything but the Liquid engines and tanks

Delete the DAE files and textures/mesh folders out of the engines and tanks folders

Edit config files

Re-zip and you\'re done.

Zephyr: I am uploading a zip with the adapters/shrouds in it, will PM you the link and infoz.

[Killerhurtz]

Quick gift from me, take it or leave it (do tell if you feel it doesn\'t fit the pack, I\'ll reuse it). Has a stand-in texture (I really suck at those) and the nodes are already placed, the model is gimbal ready. Enjoy. Might remake a very similar one with an actual bell if I figure out to make nice-looking bells in 3ds (just learnt how to use it, this program is made out of WIN)

[Tiberion]

That\'s a pretty cool model, looks like it would be good as some sort of orbital/interplanetary engine.

I thought about adding some more engines to the main download, but I am not sure about adding new parts that this point;

I\'m thinking I\'d rather get a few more engines and release an auxiliary download for those that want them - I\'d totally include your engine.

Here\'s what it looks like, for those that aren\'t downloading it:

[Killerhurtz]

Just a quick heads up: it\'s supposed to be just this, a model (+ texture if you guys like it). I literally took the LV-T45\'s cfg file and merely edited the nodes to save you the trouble. All the other stats are exactly the same (if you notice, I didn\'t even change the name nor author).

I could tweak the cfg if anyone\'s interested.

[Tiberion]

Yeah I understood you just did a model swap, we can whip up fictional info for it, no problem.

[Tiberion]

So its not even Tuesday anymore, and I said I\'d push the new version... but its not ready yet.

I am testing numbers now, those tanks are beasts, and the fuel usage numbers to match them are going to be... significant.

So, expect a new version tomorrow with all new numbers to crunch, I\'ll need some testers.

[Tiberion]

Well, it took forever but I got a decent set of numbers installed, and the new version is up for download - Changelog is on the front page.

Basically, the balance changes were only to engine fuel consumption today - I bumped them up quite a bit to reduce the ludicrous flight times you could get on the bigger tanks. The goal was to make it 'feel' right when flying replicas of common rockets - where your 1st stage of a 3 stage lifter didn\'t carry you clean into orbit.

I hope everyone tests the changes out thoroughly on your own designs, I am sure there are some issues with them right now, and this is certainly only the 1st pass.

And try out the vernier pod now, its an actual engine and not SAS anymore - should really help steer your big rockets, an I bet they make good lander engines too.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/46506740/KSP/NovaPunch0_4alpha.zip

Here\'s an image from testing, to show you how far those tanks could carry you.

EDIT:

I just discovered I published a messed up parts folder for the 1meter quad engine (GGM4) - I had been testing replacing its model with the 5-nozzle engine I made, but decided not to, but forgot to revert the config changes for the attachment nodes in my 'working' folder.

I\'ll fix it in the next release, but if you are using the engine now, the config edits are not major; just open parts.cfg from the folder NP_1mLiquidEngine_GGM4 in Notepad and:

Replace

// --- general parameters ---

name = miniLiquidEngine2

module = LiquidEngine

author = NovaSilisko

// --- asset parameters ---

mesh = miniLiquidEngine1.DAE

scale = 1

texture = miniliquidengine1.png

specPower = 0.3

rimFalloff = 3

alphaCutoff = 0

// --- node definitions ---

node_stack_top = 0.0, 0.175, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0

node_stack_bottom = 0.0, -0.230, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0

with

// --- general parameters ---

name = miniLiquidEngine

module = LiquidEngine

author = NovaSilisko

// --- asset parameters ---

mesh = miniLiquidEngine1.DAE

scale = 1

texture = miniliquidengine1.png

specPower = 0.3

rimFalloff = 3

alphaCutoff = 0

// --- node definitions ---

node_stack_top = 0.0, 0.33, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0

node_stack_bottom = 0.0, -0.325, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0

and save/reload. The lines with errors/changes are in bold.

On the good news front, Nova has given permission to add the older lander legs from Silisko Edition (which he replaced with a new model) to the NP pack, the home to all wayward and forgotten parts

[White Owl]

I want to learn how to create new parts, specifically to add more stuff to this pack. This is great.

[Commander Zoom]

But then it wouldn\'t be (just) (rebalanced) SIDR + Wobbly parts, would it?

[Omnivore]

The idea of making this into a community mod has my support, if Tiberion decides to go that route I\'ll contribute.

[NovaSilisko]

I think it should sorta be a support home for abandoned mods.

[Tiberion]

Well the plan going forward is to add complimentary items to an auxiliary pack - stuff like more engines or other hardware - the main pack is already quite big, mostly due to the various couplers and decouplers. Like the 5-nozzle engine I made, and the one posted on the previous page.

And if you don\'t want them in the addon pack, I can still list complimentary parts here without limiting your ability to publish them in your own thread/pack or whatever.

This is definitely a community mod, I said so in the OP somewhere - I\'m just the maintenance man.

Been playing some more, is anyone else having issues with the gas trails from the vernier pod? It seems to be altering the effects from other engines and causing graphical lag while they\'re burning.

[Spoot Knight]

Been playing some more, is anyone else having issues with the gas trails from the vernier pod? It seems to be altering the effects from other engines and causing graphical lag while they\'re burning.

Not from what I can see, I threw eight verniers into the second stage of a Long March-styled rocket and didn\'t catch any shenanigans with gas (Smoke?) trails. Maybe a slight drop in framerate that doesn\'t last too long, but the veniers themselves don\'t have any trails unless that wasn\'t supposed to be that way.

[Tiberion]

No there is definitely white gas FX turned on, looks like this:

The normal trail from the 3m quads (which have no gimbals) looks like this:

With 4x pods on the ship, it looks like this, the main trail flips around like its gimballed, and my computer lags like its dying - as soon as the engines die or I stage, the lag stops.

Note that he verniers aren\'t on the bottom of the rocket, but half-way up the 3m stage where you see the small white clouds. Yet the big deflecting trail is by the non-gimballed main engine

This is the FX entry:

// --- FX definitions ---

fx_gasJet_white = -0.25, -0.75, 0, -0.25, -1, 0, active

which looks spot-on in partslab, but comes out a bit messy in game.. not sure what the deal is. Any FX gurus have some ideas?

[rdfox]

Hey, check the mission log--I wouldn\'t be surprised if it turns out that the reason for the lag is similar to why we often get lag using ullage engines and such. When thrust is directly impinging on structure, it does damage, and the game has to slow down to calculate the damage...

[Tiberion]

Ah, yes indeed it is doing damage, in fact even when placed at the bottom, its damaging the engine below - never enough to explode it.

So. how do I stop the damage? set the thrust vector so it isn\'t straight down?

[Spoot Knight]

No there is definitely white gas FX turned on, looks like this:

*Snip*

The normal trail from the 3m quads (which have no gimbals) looks like this:

*Snip*

With 4x pods on the ship, it looks like this, the main trail flips around like its gimballed, and my computer lags like its dying - as soon as the engines die or I stage, the lag stops.

*Snip*

Note that he verniers aren\'t on the bottom of the rocket, but half-way up the 3m stage where you see the small white clouds. Yet the big deflecting trail is by the non-gimballed main engine

This is the FX entry:

// --- FX definitions ---

fx_gasJet_white = -0.25, -0.75, 0, -0.25, -1, 0, active

which looks spot-on in partslab, but comes out a bit messy in game.. not sure what the deal is. Any FX gurus have some ideas?

Ah, I wasn\'t 100% sure really if you were talking about the thruster effect or a smoke effect.

[Tiberion]

So it seems from the wiki and asking in the shoutbox that thrustcenter and vector are only for solid engines (dunno why, but okay)

I tried anyway:

thrustCenter = -0.25, 0.07, 0

thrustVector = -0.25, 1, 0

And also swapped the gasjet to a blueflame

One of them fixed the lag, but I don\'t know which - guess thats what I get for not making one change at a time.

[Andras]

Would it be possible to turn them into extra powerful but single direction RCS jets?

[trvtannenberg]

Would it be possible to turn them into extra powerful but single direction RCS jets?

Yes, i done that.

[Moach]

+1 for the verniers as high-powered RCS jets :thumbup:

:cheers: - cheers for everyone involved in this pack - it\'s really awesome and quite handy to have around!

now - a little buggity-bug i found (just a minor oversight, really...)

some of the structural parts are missing the 'fuelCrossFeed = true' setting that would allow them to be positioned between tanks and engines without blocking up the pipes....

since this is something of an inconvenience for me, and quite a deal-breaker for kerbonauts counting on that engine to light up (and then it doesn\'t) - i went ahead and fixed it myself....

but then i figured i\'d have to keep doing this every time a new version is released...

so the faulted parts are:

* NP_1.75m_1m_cargocoupler

* NP_1.75m_2m_adapter

* NP_1m_1.75m_short_adapter

* NP_2m_1.75_adapter

those are the structs that will block fuel supply when placed before an engine.... i would recommend they get that revised....

anyways - i also believe the RCS tanks should be made fuel-friendly as well.... i think rockets could benefit handling--wise from having heavy RCS reservoirs placed down aft, rather than up at the nose :

anyways... just a thought - great pack! lots of fun :cheers:

[Tiberion]

Hmm. I guess they would be more flexible as RCS thrusters, since they wouldn\'t need to be on a fuel tank - though without the gimbals their thrust will only go in one direction.

Does anyone actually want them as gimbal\'d LFEs? Maybe a bigger model more like the one in Slugs Hardware.

Added the fuellcrossfeed fixes to the to-do list, will have that in the next version.

Also, has anyone tested out the new numbers on your rockets?

Specifically:

Do you feel the 1m main engines use too much fuel? I am pondering a slight lowering of their thrust (specifically the M50, K2X and GGM4) and rolling back their fuel usage closer to previous - its a hard balance between making them useless when attached to the 1m tanks and making them overpowered when used 5x or 7x on the plate adapters on the 3m tanks.

Do your 1.75m lifting stages feel right? Do they burn through a long tank too fast?

Lander engines: Can you land and return with 1 R25 tank and the RMA3 engine?

[Andras]

I\'m not too sure about the increased fuel consumption. The old 3mQuad just barely lifts a long tank, another 3m quad, a short tank, and then a 2m stage and a 1m lander* for a kpollo clone, see pics. MECO is at 32km, under 500m/s

A 10%-25% increase, maybe, but jumping from 75 to 266 is bananas, imo. That would just push people into using plates with 1m motors.

The big fuel tanks have too much fuel for the weight though, 15000 fuel would be 60kg, not 28, using stock LFT ratios. Make that sucker weigh 60, make the 3m quad thrust 2500 and burn 100, and you won\'t have to worry about 1m clusters because they can\'t lift it. I don\'t know if that much weight will work under 0.12 though. I had to edit my modified Saturn values (stage 1 tank 8100fuel/45k)(Stage 1 engine thrusts 1800, burns 90) to make it work.

* The \'rcs unit\' is actually an edited fuel tank w 325 fuel, the \'escape rocket\' is an extra SAS unit to help stabilize when maneuvering in Munar landings

[Tiberion]

Yeah this pass was pretty punitive, nostly because I made a bad assumption about the tank ratios. They are actually way overpowered compared to stock, Fuel to weight ratio is 500:1 instead of 200:1 like stock. The tanks are still running the IKAO calculators numbers, and the numbers from 0.3 were the engine numbers.

My tester is this rocket, which seems a reasonable one between heavy and light:

For pass 2 I took the 0.3 fuel numbers (50 for the quad) and bumped them from 25:1 to 12.5:1) making it use 100f/s

That rocket will reach escape velocity on the 1st stage.

I could go back to 200:1 on the tanks, but the masses will end up like the tanks in K&W Challenger, where even struts won\'t hold them, we\'d need a heavy strut.

So I don\'t know what to do about the tanks, I could blast the mass up and leave the fuel in, or I could cut fuel and leave the mass. I thought the tanks were pretty balanced, but I guess not.

[Andras]

I just had a successful launch with the numbers I put up earlier. In fact it out performed the 0.3 numbers (meco @ 48km/900ms) so I\'m backing the 3m quad down to 2250 thrust and will give it another shot. The \'problem\' with high thrust and high weight, is that when the fuel is burned off, the TWR gets pretty huge and it accelerates hard for the last 10% or so.

ETA- ok, so the drop to 2250 worked great for the 1st stage (33km/670ms), but using the same engine for second stage had too much thrust and it took me to the Munar orbit insertion burn. Thrust vectoring is also a must at these weights. I\'ll try 2000 after dinner.