Minmus vs. Laythe - Which moon would be better for a colony?

[boomerdog2000]

All depends on you. Do you want it to be a (semi) easy-to-make colony on a nearby planetary body, with easy to reach kethane reserves? Or do you want a more difficult and time-consuming colony but you will feel more of a reward afterwards?

[Luckless]

Why focus on just those two? Why not other options? For a Mun vs Minmus I think Minmus would be easier for an industrial site. Large enough to have the mass and resources to work with, small enough to be easy to get on and off of.

However I think my prime target for a colony would be Duna. Fairly easy to get to, enough atmosphere to reliably aerobreak on, and I find it a little prettier of a view than Laythe.

[The Jedi Master]

Radiation is not a concern for the kerbal, in my opinion. I think they're much more durable than humans. Minmus is closer, though.

[SkyRender]

Neither is a great choice for a colony, really. Though Minmus is a much better choice in the short run simply because it has more ready access to Kerbin for supplies and an escape route should something go wrong. I kind of like the idea of a Minmus/Mun co-colony. The transfer window between the two is rarely very long, after all, and the Mun just seems like a better place to set up a base overall (albeit an underground one; plenty of impact craters to show why that's a good idea!).

[Themohawkninja]

Laythe is clearly better.

-Water? Check.

-Decent fraction of Kerbin's gravity? Check.

-Breathable atmosphere? Probably check.

-Aesthetically superior sky? Totally check.

[annallia]

What could this "anything" be? Giant asteroid? It would probably take an asteroid larger than Kerbin itself to mess with the orbit of Minmus.

Not really, if Kerbin were to have a significant chunk of its mass ejected into space by alarge asteroid (maybe gilly?) not only would Kerbins orbit change (thus changing Minmus as well) but Kerbins gravity well would also be reduced possibly allowing Minmus to turn into a rogue moon.

minmus cant be made of water, its too dense.

laythe's oceans are not made of water, its too cold even when saturated with salt (so im told)

Salt you are probably right, unless as was said by people like NovaSlisko that Laythe has a bit of volcanic activity. Depending on how deep the oceans actually are a few well placed active volcanos could produce enough heat to keep the water slightly above freezing. Furthermore you have tidal radiation from Jool also warming the planet and the theory that it the water has ammonia or something of that sort in it further lowering the freezing temperature.

I vote for Laythe, it is close enough to being self sustaining (with the necessary modules) that if anything were to happen on kerbin the colony wouldn't die a horrible death by hypoxia.

[Luckless]

Not really, if Kerbin were to have a significant chunk of its mass ejected into space by alarge asteroid (maybe gilly?) not only would Kerbins orbit change (thus changing Minmus as well) but Kerbins gravity well would also be reduced possibly allowing Minmus to turn into a rogue moon.

It would also depend on the direction and timing of the impact. (And whether or not the physics works on more than 2 bodies...) Something large enough to do some serious damage to Kerbin's structure would also likely be large enough to have a fair bit of pull itself. Depending on how it then interacts with Minmus it could easily add a fair little push to the small moon and destabilize its orbit to the point of causing an ejection.

[Merinsan]

No idea. The problem is you haven't defined the term "better".

Minmus is more cost effective due to it's proximity and low gravity.

Laythe is better due to the atmosphere.

The question is, what are the objectives of the colony?

[toric5]

It would also depend on the direction and timing of the impact. (And whether or not the physics works on more than 2 bodies...) Something large enough to do some serious damage to Kerbin's structure would also likely be large enough to have a fair bit of pull itself. Depending on how it then interacts with Minmus it could easily add a fair little push to the small moon and destabilize its orbit to the point of causing an ejection.

anything that large would not even have to impact to cause damage. our moon, which is far from an impactor, slightly stresses strata layers through tidal forces (not much, barely measurable). imagine something half that size but hundreds of times closer.

[InterCity]

I would maybe build a colony on both. Minimus base is useful for refueling and repairing craft, while Laythe colony is a challenge to be beaten. I personally have three kerbals <span style="text-decoration: line-through;">stranded</span> permanently based on Eve and planning a Duna base. Currently i am building a refueling station at mun.

P.S. Jeb is not stranded anywhere

[Luckless]

anything that large would not even have to impact to cause damage. our moon, which is far from an impactor, slightly stresses strata layers through tidal forces (not much, barely measurable). imagine something half that size but hundreds of times closer.

It would be highly unlikely to be able to eject matter from an earth sized body through gravity alone. Sure, it would suck for anything trying to live on the surface of the planet, but the planet itself isn't really going to care all that much. They're rather elastic things to begin with, so they get heated and bent a little, then settle back down. But to actually take a chunk out of a planet, to destroy part of it in the sense a solar system where you radically change the orbit of a single planet? Generally that is going to be a high mass high velocity impactor. (Non-impact events would cause havoc throughout a solar system)

[InfinityArch]

For long term, fully self-sufficient habitation, Laythe is really the only option in the kerbol system; it has an atmosphere which contains oxygen, radiation will be a serious concern on any body besides kerbin, and it's already been calculated that, even if Laythe doesn't have a magnetic field of its own, the radiation dosage at sea level would only result in a minor increase in cancer risk in humans. Even if the water has ammonia in it (which, given that the temperature system is far from complete, is not necessarily true), it still has easily renewable water.

[Moar Boosters]

More chance of finding pudding on Minmus.

Sure all the surface reports we've done so far have come up negative, but most Kerbal scientists are pretty sure there are ancient subsurface deposits of pudding just waiting to be found.

[TheDataMiner]

Radiation wouldn't be a problem, Kerbals are lead-based life forms; they flatten so easily

[Weegee]

If the kerbals were an actual civilization (and not fictional characters of a game), colonies on Minmus and Laythe would be good for different reasons.

For its close proximity and low gravity (easier to travel around), Minmus would be great for a mining colony that supplies Kerbin with fuel. It could also be used as a re-fueling point for interplanetary ships if then could align properly, especially if said mining operations were emplyed. And, if you imagine that kerbals have tech similar to the extra-planetary launchpad mod, Minmus could even be a launch point for ships heading to other places. However, due to lack of atmosphere, radiation gear would be required, and the crews would have to be switched out to mitigate harmful effects of the low gravity. Another downside is that for said reasons it would not be great for a long-term habitation colony, and because of its location, there wouldn't be that much SCIENCE to do, as it's in the Kerbin system.

Laythe however, would be pretty bad for any primarily mining based colony, because of the higher gravity (than Minmus) and atmosphere, and not to mention the logistics of shipping supplies back to Kerbin. The only reasonable use of a mining colony on Laythe would to be self-sustaining. It could also be of use for missions in the Jool system (and potentially other far out planets like Eeloo), but Bop and Pol have very low gravity and no atmosphere, making launches and resource returns much easier than Laythe. The plus-side for Laythe colonies is for long-term habitation ones. The atmosphere would shield at least some radiation, and the air/water could be at least partially used to sustain the colony. The gravity would also slow down any physical deteriorations. Also, on the SCIENCE front, as there are *5* bodies in the Jool system (excluding Laythe itself), many observations could be made from Laythe, and potentially missions to other moons could be sent (though again, Bop or Pol is better for this).

So really, it depends on what type of colony you want. For a resource based colony, I would choose Minmus (especially if purpose of said resources is to supply Kerbin). For a living colony, I would choose Laythe, but would also set up outposts on Bop or Pol for any contruction or mining required for the base.

[Voculus]

My vote is to do both. They're like night and day, each one with it's own challenges, and either one will be equally rewarding.

[Scorched]

added a few things:

+ Frozen water.

+ Easy to resupply from Kerbin.

+ Food could be grown in underground shelters using thawed water.

+ Nuclear Engines operate at high efficiency due to the lack of an atmosphere. This would reduce fuel requirements.

+ A completely solid surface means that kethane deposits could be mined at any point on the planet.

+ Long term habitats could be dug into the mountains and ground to shelter against solar radiation.

- Solar radiation would irradiate any Kerbal who ventured onto the surface without the proper gear.

- Very little gravity at all would result in physiological changes over the long term for any kerbals who lived there.

- Can Kerbals reproduce in low gravity? I do not know.

-Colour would disappear due to solar radiation. (no more coloured rockets :c)

Laythe

+ Plane travel is available

+ More comfortable gravity

+ Breathable atmosphere.

-... Contains oxygen, but not breathable (an EVA report on Laythe tells about how your kerbal takes off his helmet to breathe the air, but starts gasping and choking and has to put it back on)

+ Atmosphere allows for parachutes to assist with large landers.

+ Liquid water..

- .. That's filled with ammonia, which is very difficult to separate from water.

- Radiation from Jool would fry any Kerbal not in shelter.

- The water covered surface would make kethane mining less viable.

- Underground shelters are not viable due to water-saturated soil on very small islands.

- The combination of an atmosphere and oceans would result in weather patterns that could pose a threat to a surface colony.

- Resupply and emergency aid would be near impossible outside of ships sent at intervals.

[FlamedSteak]

After thoroughly exploring Minmus from an orbital station I think it's one of the under sung heroes of KSP.

Its incredibly easy to get around and rendezvous on, it's also very pretty on the surface, which is more than can be said for most places.

[RedDwarfIV]

I'm gonna wait until a version of KSP with a Saturn analogue before making any serious attempt at a habitation colony. Squad said that Laythe will be a lot less nice to life in future versions. A Saturn-like planet would have a weaker magnetic field than Jool, so less radiation. Hopefully such a planet would have more and more diverse moons than Saturn - Titan isn't very Earthlike, after all. A habitable moon would need some vulcanism for heat, and an active core, and a magnetic field, and a breathable atmosphere, and water/water-ice.

[i8jello]

I use Interstellar, so I can just mine LFO (and Monoprop if Laythe's oceans are made of ammonia/water) from the oceans. Go Laythe!

[Pds314]

According to everything I have seen, Jool wouldn't produce harmful radiation. Jool would absorb solar radiation particles, but these would be rendered harmless by Laythe's atmosphere.

As for Minmus, it clearly isn't pure ice, it is green. Density is obviously too high, but that is true of every celestial.

One: it has a sea-level, suggesting it once had seas, meaning it may have had more water in it.

It is now frozen. Something is in the water that makes it freeze at high temperatures.

What probably happened was it started to boil away until the concentration of things that froze the water got high enough.

As for the land, that was formed by a third chemical in it's previous state of a near-uniform ocean. Thus the plateaus.

[undercoveryankee]

The value of Minmus is that if you're producing resources there, it's cheap to deliver them to LKO. Laythe is far enough away from where you'd be building anything that colonizing it is mostly for RP purposes. I.e. the oxygen supply brings you closer to a self-sufficient colony that could survive an asteroid or ecological disaster on Kerbin.

If there were another body with an oxygen atmosphere in our solar system, you can bet I'd want to see a permanent colony set up there.

[jmiki8]

I prefer Minmus as it takes less time to get there (I don't have that much free time to do frequent Laythe-missions). Also I like it's non existent atmoshphere and extremely-low gravity. Laythe is cool, and it's a larger achievement to land a base there, but I think the planet is way too similar to Kerbin, as it has almost the same gravity and slightly higher air density.

I'm not interested in Laythe. I've flied an SSTO there, sent some satellites to orbit it and landed on the surface just for the record, but other bodies (like Minmus) are far more exciting for me.

Edited February 25, 2014 by jmiki8

[mellojoe]

Minmus is one of my favorite places in all of KSP. It does pose a few challenges with permanent bases though. Mainly, the low gravity has a tendancy to encourage landed structures to wiggle and walk and slide on the surface. Don't bump into anything, because you might send it on a skid for days.

But it is beautiful, easy to maneuver around, forgiving of mistakes, and easy to reach in limited amount of time. You can put crazy things there, because if they fail, you can always recover the Kerbals.

Don't get me wrong, I love Laythe. I've got a base there, myself. And being able to use air-breathing planes makes travel there so much fun. Laythe really is a true home-away-from-home. But the logistcs and timing and just the amount of real life time required to get there on a regular basis means an additional level of complexity. Mistakes on Laythe are hugely punishing.

[tychochallenge]

Well, both have their advantages and disadvantages: Minmus is close by and maybe has frozen water; Laythe has breathable atmosphere and (liquid water?). However, i'd choose Minmus because of its distance and low-gravity, Laythe is good for planes, however, assuming its in a position comparable to Io's distance from Jupiter, its surface would be blasted with radiation 200-300 times the lethal dose along with super-volcanoes and (laythe)quakes. The radiation hazard can be solved by creating an underwater base, but assuming your kerbals want to go out and stretch their legs, Minmus is the better option.

Edit: I'm not sure if radiation is actually 200-300 times lethal dose, some of it will be deflected from Laythe's atmosphere and/or its magnetic field if it has one.

Edited March 13, 2014 by tychochallenge