What we really need for planes now!!

[nats]

I am starting to fly planes for the first time ever thanks to the new patch and the SAS changes. But I have found them severely lacking in several regards for which something really needs developing in order to bring them into their own place vs the rockets, which for me are still by far the main element of the game.

What do you feel about these things?

1. Ejection seats - so many times I've wished there was a way to eject my pilot Kerbal before I crashed into the ground for the tenth time!

2. Stall warning - its impossible to fly properly at the moment due to flipping out, we really need a stall warning and more sensitive flight controls so we dont stall as much, its very difficult to stall a real plane and impossible when travelling at any decent speed - in this game the stalling at speed is highly unrealistic.

3. Aerodynamics - apart from the rubbish stall characteristics mentioned above, when you bank a real place the lift of the wings is translated into a turning vector so you dont actually need to pull up much in order to turn when banking. At the moment half of the stalling issue is due to having to pull too hard when in bank in order to turn at all. We really need to be able to bank and turn smoothly.

4. Nosewheel steering - tried to pick up a Kerbal the other day by landing near him but could I turn to collect him once I had landed? I had to disable a side engine eventually in order to turn my plane. We need to be able to taxi properly.

5. Drag/speed brakes - when landing its quite difficult to bleed off enough speed - better drag physics and especially speed brakes or reverse thrust in engines would help landing without excessive use of brakes.

6. VTOL jets/floats - if the jets could be rotated you could make some wicked VTOL jets for Kerbal rescues and if we had floats we could land on water for rescues.

7. Passenger/storage cabins - I really want to be able to carry more Kerbals/storage in my jets for when resources appear in the game and I need to (hopefully) shuttle crew and materials around.

Is there anything else people want for their planes/spaceplanes/gliders that I havent mentioned?

Edited July 30, 2013 by nats

[Supernovy]

Moved to Suggestions and Development Discussion.

[Comrade Jenkens]

8. Setting control surfaces to control only pitch, yaw or roll.

Anyway at some point in the near future an aerodynamics and space plane update is most likely planned.

[DaRocketCat]

1. You can build an ejection system yourself with a decoupler, a chute, and separatrons.

2&3. The entire model needs redoing, meanwhile you can use Ferram Aerospace Research.

4. Would be nice.

5. Brakes tend to suffice for me, in case it's a large craft coming in at high speeds I use drag chutes.

6. You can already make VTOL's with some clever engineering, adding a dedicated engine would take the challenge away from it.

7. There's the hitchhiker cabin.

[Synapse]

Bigger wings!

[palker]

1 http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/25305-0-20-2-0-21-0-Vanguard-Technologies-EVA-parachutes-Finally-updated-(Jun-4)

2 and 3 Install FAR design your plane properly some of my designs can achieve 20 g without stalling. http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/20451-0-21-Ferram-Aerospace-Research-v0-9-5-4-Aerodynamics-Fixes-For-Planes-Rockets

4 that would be great

567 install B9 aerospace http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/25241-0-21-B9-Aerospace-Pack-R3-3-New-pods-IVAs-engines-fuselages-structures

[The Scientific Moustache]

4 wheel rear landing gear blocks would be nice too.

[Tw1]

4. This is why I tend to use the landing gear from TT's multiwheels. There are turning ones, so if you're not against adding mods, that's one to think of.

Alternatively, you could program engines to toggle with action groups, or add rover wheels in a way that you can steer with them when you retract your front gear.

[dlmarti]

do not take this the wrong way, I really do not understand aero in ksp....

So lets say you get all of this. In fact lets say that ALL of the dev time for six months is spent on adding stuff to aero.

Then what? What are you going to do with it? Fly around the terminal better?

There is no place to go, no objective.

With the rockets I can run missions, plan objectives, all sorts of stuff. I just do not understand why ANY effort is being put into aero.

So clue me in, what are you guys doing with it?

[allmappedout]

do not take this the wrong way, I really do not understand aero in ksp....

So lets say you get all of this. In fact lets say that ALL of the dev time for six months is spent on adding stuff to aero.

Then what? What are you going to do with it? Fly around the terminal better?

There is no place to go, no objective.

With the rockets I can run missions, plan objectives, all sorts of stuff. I just do not understand why ANY effort is being put into aero.

So clue me in, what are you guys doing with it?

Because, without a realistic aero simulation, you're not really doing all the parts of rocketry. Being able to optimise your design to an aerodynamic model, which brings with it increased benefits in dV reduction, coupled with a more flexible and rewarding flight model (some of us really enjoy building our own planes) means that you get a better understanding of how things work.

Plus, your rockets will explode when you exceed MaxQ, and that's always fun

Basically, a better aero model means you can go with the idea that if it looks like it should fly, it is more likely to, rather than the current model which is 'attach as many wings as possible and hope'.

Edited July 30, 2013 by allmappedout

[dlmarti]

Because, without a realistic aero simulation, you're not really doing all the parts of rocketry. Being able to optimise your design to an aerodynamic model, which brings with it increased benefits in dV reduction, coupled with a more flexible and rewarding flight model (some of us really enjoy building our own planes) means that you get a better understanding of how things work.

Plus, your rockets will explode when you exceed MaxQ, and that's always fun

Basically, a better aero model means you can go with the idea that if it looks like it should fly, it is more likely to, rather than the current model which is 'attach as many wings as possible and hope'.

I can agree with that, but I still wonder what everyone is doing with planes.

I built my first on a couple days ago, flew it for 30 minutes, then went back to rockets.

[palker]

I can agree with that, but I still wonder what everyone is doing with planes.

I built my first on a couple days ago, flew it for 30 minutes, then went back to rockets.

We are sorry that we enjoy something you don't.

[DaRocketCat]

A lot of us like planes. A lot.

And besides, a lot of the time you spend in the game takes place in the atmosphere: launching a rocket, spaceplanes, re-entry...

It wouldn't take 6 months, if a modder can make it, then so can the dev team in not too long.

Edited July 31, 2013 by DaRocketCat

[providus]

I can agree with that, but I still wonder what everyone is doing with planes.

I built my first on a couple days ago, flew it for 30 minutes, then went back to rockets.

Hmm. My planes reach orbit. Aircraft engines work on lythe, do they? Ill find out ...

[cpt_nosh]

Those are some decent Suggestions. I'd love to see more main structural parts, since we now only have like... jetfueltanks.

[cpt_nosh]

I can agree with that, but I still wonder what everyone is doing with planes.

I built my first on a couple days ago, flew it for 30 minutes, then went back to rockets.

-> SSTO's. Google it! They're sometimes a bit difficult, but tons of fun nevertheless.

[Nebula]

A taxiway and parking area, along with steerable wheels and reverse thrust for maneuverability, along with everything you posted

[Wrench Head]

Really????!!!! I have built and flown and planes..... I would say try a mod or 2....

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/43147-BHS-Inds-Presents

Edited July 31, 2013 by BlackHoleSun

[Wrench Head]

Park in the grass.

[Themohawkninja]

1. I suppose, but I've made my own stock ejection seats, and they don't take up that much room.

2. We should realistically model the aerodynamics before this.

3. It's planned.

4. Attach a rover wheel on, and set an action key to toggle the nose landing gear.

5. I don't have trouble bleeding speed. Just do what the shuttle did, and fly in "S" shapes.

6. I don't think we should have VTOL jets, as much as we should have parts that rotate.

7. EVA seats plus structural panels can make for some neat passenger jet designs, but we really should have Mk. II/III fuel tanks converted into crew compartments.

[ShadyAct]

We are sorry that we enjoy something you don't.

We? Speak for yourself.

[Levelord]

4. Nosewheel steering - tried to pick up a Kerbal the other day by landing near him but could I turn to collect him once I had landed? I had to disable a side engine eventually in order to turn my plane. We need to be able to taxi properly

4. Attach a rover wheel on, and set an action key to toggle the nose landing gear.

That's more of a work around and not really a fix for the problem, since real aircraft have steerable landing wheels to taxi into position. The landing wheels don't need to be able to move on their own, but they certainly need the ability to steer.

[Nebula]

That's more of a work around and not really a fix for the problem, since real aircraft have steerable landing wheels to taxi into position. The landing wheels don't need to be able to move on their own, but they certainly need the ability to steer.

Agreed, and reverse thrust would be nice

[Frederf]

Ejection seats would mean some kind of parachute system. You can eject right now, but not so useful. KSP doesn't actually have stalling as the lift smoothy tapers by angle. The whole aero system needs an overhaul as for example the Cd is based on part mass and not geometry. Steerable and castering wheels would be quite nice in general as would landing gear bays that mount recessed.

[Scoundrel]

Well, Bac9 is working on creating content for KSP, so hopefully one of the things he's working on is finding suitable material with which to blackmail HarvesteR and C7 into importing B9 Aerospace as stock. Or is it extorting? I forget which it would be...

Failing that, I agree with pretty much everything the OP listed, and would add heavy undercarriage (ala 747 or C5 Galaxy or An-124), and undercarriage with longer struts for wing mounting or mid-height mounting. And also decouplers for the various fuselage types so not just the round ones normally used in rockets. Oh, and kerbals wearing pilot helmets with silly Pilot names like "Fluffy" and "Conformist" and "LawnDartIII" written on them.