[0.25]KSP Interstellar (Magnetic Nozzles, ISRU Revamp) Version 0.13

[WaveFunctionP]

Okay, now I'm having two more issues. First, I sent up a satellite with a 3.5m Akula fission reactor, with a 3.5m electric generator positioned right under it. I put 6 huge radiators on it (my radiators are upgraded to Graphene radiators because I have experimental electrics researched), and in ground tests this setup produces 1.91 GW of power with no complaints and zero heat accumulation. I put the same thing into orbit and the generator is producing less than half a gigawatt of power, the reactor (although running at 100%) is only producing 2.2GW of thermal power, and when I shut the thing down it took almost half a year to cool down.

This isn't normal, is it? I mean, my supposed max heat dispersion with those six radiators is 5x what the reactor is capable of producing. Even assuming that they don't work as efficiently without an atmosphere this seems extremely....weak for the largest reactor with the largest generator attached to it.

Second, I have 4 satellites spaced apart in a 750km orbit around Kerbin, each with a microwave transceiver on it set to relay mode. None of them will detect that the others exist, nor will they detect that my wimpy power plant is transmitting 450 MW of power.

Any ideas, suggestions, hints? This is my first delving into microwave power transmission and so far I'm very underwhelmed. I realize that fission reactors are entry-level but...well, I could live with the low power production if they're actually only supposed to produce that much, but the fact that I don't appear to actually be able to USE it is annoying at best.

Edit: Well, I figured out the solution to problem 2...the satellite relays will only activate if something's actually demanding power. Derp.

You might find my tutorials (link in my sig) useful.

The basic generator only converts 30%, so if you produce 2.2GW @ 30% thats like .66GW assuming maximum radiator efficiency.

You need to transmit power in order to receive or relay it. Without only one array on each station, you'll need to set the mode to transmit, not relay. You'll then need to place relays to help you network your coverage to places that do not have los to your satellites. It is best to put botha transmitter and relay on power stations so that they can act as both a relay for other stations and transmit their power to the network.

[WaveFunctionP]

While loading up KSP with both the "current" build and with the "Experimental" build installed, my loading screen stops at "WarpPlugin/Spaces/sci/model" and refuses to go any further. I am puzzled, as this has never happened to me before. Any advice, or others having this problem?

Sounds like a memory issue to me.

[WaveFunctionP]

[LOG 06:34:11.005] [KSP Interstellar] Exception caught adding to: radiator-1mw part: System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object

at FNPlugin.PluginHelper.Update () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

[ERR 06:34:11.007] Cannot find module 'ModuleDeployableSolarPanel' (-298629360)

is one error u get for kspi

What version ksp, 32 or 64 bit, and what version of kspi? Like any statement, you need to provide context.

[JeffersonFlight]

Yeah - I have both this and RPM running fine (64 bit) - (I don't use IVA so much, so I there might be some missing/broken feature that I have not noticed). I am using the wavefunction recompile.

Ah ok I was looking for the experimental build but was to blind to notice it in the sig of WaveFunctionP. Going to test now, also the error that I was experiencing was from the 23.5 version so hopefully this resolves the issue.

*EDIT* Problem still exist using the experimental KSP Interstellar

Edited July 20, 2014 by JeffersonFlight

[sidfu]

wavefunction that was using the newest version for 23.5 was running 64bit.

[Aedile]

Yes, my experimental build is compiled for .24. I've yet to see evidence that recompiling was required though.

Sorry if this has been asked before - but have you looked at the cost balance or?

[sidfu]

just checked on your expermental version its still there that error wavefunctionp

they still deploy so dont know why its getting a error

[Nightdagger]

You might find my tutorials (link in my sig) useful.

The basic generator only converts 30%, so if you produce 2.2GW @ 30% thats like .66GW assuming maximum radiator efficiency.

You need to transmit power in order to receive or relay it. Without only one array on each station, you'll need to set the mode to transmit, not relay. You'll then need to place relays to help you network your coverage to places that do not have los to your satellites. It is best to put botha transmitter and relay on power stations so that they can act as both a relay for other stations and transmit their power to the network.

Yeah, I figured out how to transmit and such. The way I have it set up is the power plant in orbit at 200k has two microwave transceivers on it, one set to transmit, one set to relay. The four relay stations I have at 750k have only one transceiver on them, set to relay since they don't actually produce any power, they're just meant to beam it where it's needed. The part that's really getting me now is that if I park the exact same generator off my runway it produces 1.91 GW of power (reactor running at 4.5 GW, no heat buildup at all with 4x huge radiators), but put it in space and even with 2 more radiators it accumulates a fairly large amount of waste heat, the reactor only runs at 2.2 GW, and the power plant as a whole only produces 450 MW of power. It seems to me that, even with atmospheric losses, it might be more efficient to just build four or five generators at KSP and focus orbital operations on setting up relays than to waste all the time, power, and resources putting power plants in space.

[ABZB]

soon:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/86999-0-24-StarSystems-v0-1

*Mr Burns excellent*

[positivewun]

The the official .dll file, which the plugin code run by ksp, has been compiled for .23.5. I do not believe that anything changed in .24 that requires the .dll to be recompiled in order to function. Compiling is the process of turning the human readable text document that is written into the code that computer understands natively. Compiling is done by a special program called a compiler, which is usually part of suit of development software called an SDK used by programmers to write software. Usually, you only need to recompile if a part of the written code used in the software has changed. Basicly, if the part of the underlying code (the API) that the plugin utilizes is changed, the software must be recompiled or, more often, rewritten to adapt to those changes.

I don't know that running 64 bit will cause any problems that aren't just inherent with 64 bit's instability right now.

It is always worth it to mention any issue you may be having as knowing about potential issues is the first step in rectifying them.

I like answers like this. Clear and to the point. Yeah I was thinking what I am looking at is in all probability an instability with unity 64 tbvh. What I'm seeing is that everything loads and runs ok but when I get to the VAB initially all looks well! When I select a vessel it's ok too. However the second that selected vessel is about to appear everything locks up and this weird spark thing shows in the picture along with the display as if I was selecting kerbonauts. then the error appears saying the game crashed. If you can point me to the log I hear about when it is failing I can get that and post so you can take a look. But to be honest I think its a unity 64 issue. I remember when I tried the unity 64 when all was still 23.5 @ 32 bit stock and we were (well i was along with a lot of other peeps) tinkering with unity 64 that it flashed the astro lounge. It looked something like a hybrid between that and as if it was trying to run the VAB.

Funny but sad thing? I'm still digging the 64 side of things even with the instability! can't wait till that gets worked out with the unity folks.

Edited July 20, 2014 by positivewun
just had to add my 2 cents

[NeoAcario]

12 days into a new campaign... stock science tree completely unlocked. Hell, I haven't even gone to Minmus yet...

Ok, guess I'll re-install KSP Interstellar and see what I come up with for balanced costs. Where do we edit cost per unit of the fuels? And don't forget the refinery materials need prices too! You know, in case we sell one back.

~Steve

NVM... found the resource costs page... just have to edit it in. So... do we have any opinions yet on costs? Should start with the actual cost of H2, compare it to the cost of Liquid in the game and use that ratio for everything?

Edited July 20, 2014 by NeoAcario

[merendel]

NVM... found the resource costs page... just have to edit it in. So... do we have any opinions yet on costs? Should start with the actual cost of H2, compare it to the cost of Liquid in the game and use that ratio for everything?

Might be difficult to get accurate prices on some things. Its not like you can just order up some UF4 online. Argon and lithium sure, that would work but fissable materials generaly cant be had on the open market. You might also consider compairing the prices of H2 xenon and whatever mono prop is (hydrozeen?) as a sanity check. Its entierly possible squad made up numbers for game balance reasons that have absolutly no resemblance to RL prices or ratios of said prices.

[WaveFunctionP]

Yeah, I figured out how to transmit and such. The way I have it set up is the power plant in orbit at 200k has two microwave transceivers on it, one set to transmit, one set to relay. The four relay stations I have at 750k have only one transceiver on them, set to relay since they don't actually produce any power, they're just meant to beam it where it's needed. The part that's really getting me now is that if I park the exact same generator off my runway it produces 1.91 GW of power (reactor running at 4.5 GW, no heat buildup at all with 4x huge radiators), but put it in space and even with 2 more radiators it accumulates a fairly large amount of waste heat, the reactor only runs at 2.2 GW, and the power plant as a whole only produces 450 MW of power. It seems to me that, even with atmospheric losses, it might be more efficient to just build four or five generators at KSP and focus orbital operations on setting up relays than to waste all the time, power, and resources putting power plants in space.

Radiators dissipate waste heat more effectively in atmosphere. In the vab, the thermal helper will tell you how much heat you can dissipate, for maximum power generation, you want the numbers to be in the green.

[WaveFunctionP]

Real world prices are coupled with the specifics our real world economics, which aren't expressed in game, nor can they be, since money's value is completely arbitrary. Attempting to value the goods in-game based on real world value would result in poor realism and poor gameplay.

Remember, KSP is a game with simulation aspects, not a simulator.

A good starting point might be to input some "reasonably ridiculous" values and then tune them down until the parts and resources feel precious, but not cripplingly high. I know it can be a foreign concept to us engineers, but game design is about feel, not formulation.

[sidfu]

btw wavefuntionp your recompile for the expermintal got rid of the iva veiw bug interstellar can cause and the rpm error problems.

[NeoAcario]

I hate doing game balance work...

The more ridiculous I want to make prices... the more I realize money won't matter the second I get an AM collector set up.

~Steve

[Nightdagger]

Radiators dissipate waste heat more effectively in atmosphere. In the vab, the thermal helper will tell you how much heat you can dissipate, for maximum power generation, you want the numbers to be in the green.

They were beyond green. My maximum dissipation was 5x the total heat production of the radiator. I know the radiators are more effective in atmosphere but it seems really strange to me that they're less than 1/5th as efficient in vacuum.

[Crim1]

Was trying to find a thread or update page or something before posting.. But hows development going on exper. version? is it atleast somewhat functioning? Can't play Kerbal without it =DD,

[WaveFunctionP]

They were beyond green. My maximum dissipation was 5x the total heat production of the radiator. I know the radiators are more effective in atmosphere but it seems really strange to me that they're less than 1/5th as efficient in vacuum.

You don't happen to have basic fission reactors and upgraded radiators do you? This has been known to cause issues. I don't usually bother much with fission, so I can't be certain.

[WaveFunctionP]

I hate doing game balance work...

The more ridiculous I want to make prices... the more I realize money won't matter the second I get an AM collector set up.

~Steve

This is why I suggest that certain resources remain unavailable from the VAB without a mechanic to recover resource amounts.

[NeoAcario]

This is why I suggest that certain resources remain unavailable from the VAB without a mechanic to recover resource amounts.

Considering making everything sellable / purchasable besides Antimatter. Just keep my AM infrastructure like I had before... parking a 1m AM can by the launchpad and call it good.

~Steve

[Rocket_Architect_Blasen]

Sounds like a memory issue to me.

I very much doubt it. I ran KSP fine prior to installing Interstellar, and after installing I monitored memory usage. This is a new computer, and it has 16 GB of memory. At the time that loading stops working, task manager states that only 33% of memory is being used.

[Nightdagger]

You don't happen to have basic fission reactors and upgraded radiators do you? This has been known to cause issues. I don't usually bother much with fission, so I can't be certain.

Yeah...that's exactly what I have. I hadn't seen anything about it, so I didn't know there was an issue.

Guess it's time to beeline to fusion, huh?

[NeoAcario]

Yeah...that's exactly what I have. I hadn't seen anything about it, so I didn't know there was an issue.

Guess it's time to beeline to fusion, huh?

This problem doesn't happen with upgraded fission reactors... just the basic ones. I normally use a 0.65m Fission reactors when I need some backround juice for AM containment and the like.

~Steve

[WaveFunctionP]

I very much doubt it. I ran KSP fine prior to installing Interstellar, and after installing I monitored memory usage. This is a new computer, and it has 16 GB of memory. At the time that loading stops working, task manager states that only 33% of memory is being used.

32 bit ksp can only address ~4GB, less really, which is why texture reduction pack or plugins are required. You'll need to install a mod like active texture reduction if you want to use 32bit with high memory mods like kspi.