[0.25]KSP Interstellar (Magnetic Nozzles, ISRU Revamp) Version 0.13

[Fractal_UK]

The Sabatier Process (which is EXOTHERMIC, in real life, and thus does not require massive amounts of electricity like you currently have it implemented- if sufficiently insulated it will produce its own heat, and only requires 300-400 degrees Celsius of heat to start it off), is of course: 4 H2 + CO2 --> CH4 + 2 H2O + Energy, which is then typically followed up by electrolysis of the water (2 H2O + Energy --> 2 H2 + O2)

In some real-world proposals to use Sabatier on Mars (what Duna is somewhat emulating), or even the International Space Station (for the life-support systems- to efficiently recycle waste CO2), the refineries would be equipped with the machinery to pyrolyze excess methane (the Sabatier produces more methane than there is enough oxygen produced to burn it with) back into hydrogen gas (which would be re-collected) and pyrolytic graphene (solid carbon). The graphene is then cleared by heating up Martian atmosphere (rich in carbon dioxide) to high temperatures and blasting it across the graphene to oxidize the carbon to carbon monoxide (CO2 + C --> 2 CO). In the case of the ISS, the graphene is manually removed (it is made to collect in a removable steel pipe) and disposed of with the next resupply vessel.

Is it possible to see this functionality added to KSP-I? (LiquidFuel recovery from LiquidMethane- no need to add the complexities of a graphene resource...) This enables recovery of (almost) all hydrogen from the Sabatier, and essentially allows it to be utilized as a means to perform the net reaction 2 CO2 + Energy --> 2 CO + O2

The LiquidFuel/Oxidiser recovery is already implemented in Interstellar, you'll notice that the Sabatier reaction produces Oxidiser as well as LqdMethane. The power that is consumed is supposed to represent the electrolysis of water, the LiquidFuel part which is then fed back into the reaction. The reaction that you describe at the bottom isn't quite correct because only half the Hydrogen goes into water in the end product, the rest of it becomes bound up in the methane, so you do still need a supply of hydrogen.

You therefore see in Interstellar the reaction Hydrogen+Carbon Dioxide+Energy -> Oxygen and Methane.

I potentially want to allow an option to go the other way and decompose the methane into pyrolytic graphite, giving you to your hydrogen back. This gives you a closed loop reaction -> Carbon-Dioxide+Energy -> Oxygen; this has obvious uses if you're playing with any life support mods.

Ok that was a minor typo. I do know how to use hyperedit and i am telling you that when i told it to put me into an orbit around the sun at the altitude needed, it did not work.

Try it in sandbox mode with an Alcubierre drive and antimatter reactor. The mission takes about 10 minutes. Doing the mission is incredibly easy, doing it early enough in the tech tree to get real benefit out of it is hard. The delta-v to do it with a slower than light ship in a reasonable timeframe is very achievable though.

Edited February 7, 2014 by Fractal_UK

[forsaken1111]

Ok that was a minor typo. I do know how to use hyperedit and i am telling you that when i told it to put me into an orbit around the sun at the altitude needed, it did not work.

That's nice, but I very much doubt most people care about whether or not hyperedit works well or whether you are using it correctly. The point here is that it can obviously be done as there is a picture of it having been done. In fact when I get home I think I will dedicate an hour or so to doing exactly what you claim is impossible based upon your 20 minute fiddling with a cheat mod.

[JewelShisen]

That's nice, but I very much doubt most people care about whether or not hyperedit works well or whether you are using it correctly. The point here is that it can obviously be done as there is a picture of it having been done. In fact when I get home I think I will dedicate an hour or so to doing exactly what you claim is impossible based upon your 20 minute fiddling with a cheat mod.

And while you do that i am going to find a way to reduce the required altitude to fit KSP scale.

[Fractal_UK]

And while you do that i am going to find a way to reduce the required altitude to fit KSP scale.

It was already reduced to fit the KSP scale, if it was 548 real AU, it would be 81,980GM rather than ~7,400GM.

[TheTom]

Cheat your incompetence out?

Check page 1 - you have a picture there of a craft that has done what you consider to be impossible by the simulation.

[JewelShisen]

It was already reduced to fit the KSP scale, if it was 550 real AU, it would be 81,980GM rather than 7,400GM.

Real world IR Telescopes would be at 550AU. Personally i think that altitude is not reasonable in KSP. Is it doable, maybe. But this is just my opinion.

And just as a note, Voyager 1 has only made it 125AU from the Sun.

Edited February 7, 2014 by JewelShisen

[JewelShisen]

Cheat your incompetence out?

Check page 1 - you have a picture there of a craft that has done what you consider to be impossible by the simulation.

I would appreciate you leaving the insults out. I posted a valid observation of what i had done and seen. Yes hyperedit is a cheat mod but it is also the fastest way to place something into space with a specific set of orbital parameters.

[Fractal_UK]

Real world IR Telescopes would be at 550AU. Personally i think that altitude is not reasonable in KSP. Is it doable, maybe. But this is juat my opinion.

And juat as a note, Voyager 1 has only made it 125AU from the Sun.

You can put an IR telescope anywhere, equally you can put this telescope anywhere to gain science. The 548 AU distance thing is just an extra - it's a region where you can use Kerbol as a gravitional lens to increase the magnification of the telescope and directly image planets in other solar systems and similar interesting things for massive science gains. It's not something you need to do to use the part.

[db48x]

Ok that was a minor typo. I do know how to use hyperedit and i am telling you that when i told it to put me into an orbit around the sun at the altitude needed, it did not work.

Yea, I just tried it out. You end up in a rather funky orbit at first, but all you have to do is put in 0 for inclination and eccentricity and you're back to normal.

[JewelShisen]

You can put an IR telescope anywhere, equally you can put this telescope anywhere to gain science. The 548 AU distance thing is just an extra - it's a region where you can use Kerbol as a gravitional lens to increase the magnification of the telescope and directly image planets in other solar systems and similar interesting things for massive science gains.

And i agree with and appreciate the idea. However my opinion is that it should be brought in to between 200-300AU. Far enough outside the system to avoid distortion by other planets but low enough that it can be reached when that science will be most useful.

On a semi-unrelated note could you please add a mention in the IR Telescope descriptiin that it requires the Helium-3 cryostat on the ship.

[InfinityArch]

You can put an IR telescope anywhere, equally you can put this telescope anywhere to gain science. The 548 AU distance thing is just an extra - it's a region where you can use Kerbol as a gravitional lens to increase the magnification of the telescope and directly image planets in other solar systems and similar interesting things for massive science gains. It's not something you need to do to use the part.

I think what Jewel is saying is that having to put the telescope at such a high altitude, while doable with KSPI tech and probably even stock, is somewhat out of scale with the rest of the game, where most distances are 1/11 of the real world.

[Lightwarrior]

Main problem i see with IR telescope is that there are no ingame tools to plan this maneuver. Game just shows "escape trajectory from Sun" and thats all, you do not know how much more speed you need to gain and how long it will take.

[JewelShisen]

Main problem i see with IR telescope is that there are no ingame tools to plan this maneuver. Game just shows "escape trajectory from Sun" and thats all, you do not know how much more speed you need to gain and how long it will take.

Agreed but also the fact that it doesn't make any mention that it needs the Helium-3 cryostat tank.

I think what Jewel is saying is that having to put the telescope at such a high altitude, while doable with KSPI tech and probably even stock, is somewhat out of scale with the rest of the game, where most distances are 1/11 of the real world.

Stock perhaps if you ran a refueling mission or two.

[forsaken1111]

Agreed but also the fact that it doesn't make any mention that it needs the Helium-3 cryostat tank.

I'll agree with this. These parts need better documentation as to requirements for use.

[Fractal_UK]

I think what Jewel is saying is that having to put the telescope at such a high altitude, while doable with KSPI tech and probably even stock, is somewhat out of scale with the rest of the game, where most distances are 1/11 of the real world.

The distance is already 1/11 of what it is in the real world as I just explained. If the telescope was at say 55 Kerbin orbit radii, it would 1/121 of the real world distance.

Main problem i see with IR telescope is that there are no ingame tools to plan this maneuver. Game just shows "escape trajectory from Sun" and thats all, you do not know how much more speed you need to gain and how long it will take.

You can use the information on the telescope to help, it tells you how far you have left to go and then tells you what your eccentricity is like when you get to the required distance.

[Lightwarrior]

Agreed but also the fact that it doesn't make any mention that it needs the Helium-3 cryostat tank.

Not Helium-3, just Liquid Helium, why will you ever use He-3 to cool something?

Also it says "liquid helium deprived" on launchpad...

Edited February 7, 2014 by Lightwarrior

[JewelShisen]

Not Helium-3, just Liquid Helium, why will you ever use He-3 to cool something?

Ok my bad. Point still being that there is nothing telling you that you need it. Anywhere.

[AngelLestat]

So? nobody find anything in my mod list anything that can enter in conflict with IQ mod?

Real world IR Telescopes would be at 550AU. Personally i think that altitude is not reasonable in KSP. Is it doable, maybe. But this is just my opinion.

The sun focal point (to alpha centauri) mission it has really big value for science. Is almost as important like send a probe to alpha centauri to take some pictures from the system at close distance.

For that reason the mission is already been planned, but it has a lot of technical difficulties like you can see.

There's a screenshot on the first page of the thread that shows a ship out that far, with an IR telescope using gravitational lensing. It sounds like you didn't use hyperedit correctly, and put yourself onto an escape trajectory instead of a circular orbit.

What is the point to be in orbit at that distance? There is not orbit, your orbital speed it would be 400 m/s and your orbital period 4000 years.

The focus point "start" at 550 AU (to see an object close it than 4 ly), but go on after that, the best distance to use telescopes it is 700 AU or more. So you dont need to stop there.

And i agree with and appreciate the idea. However my opinion is that it should be brought in to between 200-300AU. Far enough outside the system to avoid distortion by other planets but low enough that it can be reached when that science will be most useful.

On a semi-unrelated note could you please add a mention in the IR Telescope descriptiin that it requires the Helium-3 cryostat on the ship.

With 200AU or 300AU you can not see any object closer than 4ly, at that distance you would could see only objects that are 500ly or more I guess. (I dint make the math)

But what is the benefic in that? If we found good pictures of planets from a star 500ly from us, what is the point if we cant go there.

Otherwise, if you send a mission to 550 Au or beyond, you can use that satellite to amplify the the comunications with the ship you send to that star system focal point. Those are the main reasons.

Edited February 7, 2014 by AngelLestat

[Lightwarrior]

You can use the information on the telescope to help, it tells you how far you have left to go and then tells you what your eccentricity is like when you get to the required distance.

Yes, but it tells nothing usefull while still at ~1AU, and it is probably better to complete burn while still there...

Also i think it cannot be changed/corrected, so it has to be used as is...

[Jyro117]

Ok my bad. Point still being that there is nothing telling you that you need it. Anywhere.

You could say that about a number of parts in this mod. However, that is the issue with mods which are more complicated than just *add more parts to ships*. There isn't really a good way to convey complex interactions to users in the VAB. Fractal_UK has gone the route of making a wiki or posting information here to explain many of these things instead of making ridiculously long descriptions on parts. Besides, instead of simply saying 'its not posted anywhere' maybe you should suggest where to put it, how to word it, etc.

[Fractal_UK]

You could say that about a number of parts in this mod. However, that is the issue with mods which are more complicated than just *add more parts to ships*. There isn't really a good way to convey complex interactions to users in the VAB. Fractal_UK has gone the route of making a wiki or posting information here to explain many of these things instead of making ridiculously long descriptions on parts. Besides, instead of simply saying 'its not posted anywhere' maybe you should suggest where to put it, how to word it, etc.

I've added a little mention of it in the part description now, hopefully it will be enough.

[JewelShisen]

You could say that about a number of parts in this mod. However, that is the issue with mods which are more complicated than just *add more parts to ships*. There isn't really a good way to convey complex interactions to users in the VAB. Fractal_UK has gone the route of making a wiki or posting information here to explain many of these things instead of making ridiculously long descriptions on parts. Besides, instead of simply saying 'its not posted anywhere' maybe you should suggest where to put it, how to word it, etc.

It doesn't take much to add a single line to what is already a very long part description that tells you to add a Helium cryostat. Or make the part actually "consume" LqdHelium so that we know it needs it. This is the only part in the mod, that I have seen, that has a resource requirement but does not tell you in game until you go and launch your ship.

[AngelLestat]

why the IR telescope needs lqHelium? To cool it? But what heat would receive from 550AU?

[JewelShisen]

why the IR telescope needs lqHelium? To cool it? But what heat would receive from 550AU?

I was wondering that as well. Especially since it seems to be the only part in the mod that uses it.

[Fractal_UK]

Just curious but has anyone been doing the impactor experiments since 0.10.3 released? If so, is everything working fine with it?

There were a couple of reports of people getting less science than expected since I integrated the impactors with the stock science system but I've been totally unable to reproduce that problem in my own testing. It'd be nice to get some reports of success/failure.

why the IR telescope needs lqHelium? To cool it? But what heat would receive from 550AU?

The detectors must be kept at ~2K, that's very difficult if your spacecraft has any kind of power system aboard.

Even if your spacecraft was in a total void with no stars nearby, no electrical power onboard whatsoever, CMB temperature is ~2.7K which is too hot.

Edited February 7, 2014 by Fractal_UK