[0.25]KSP Interstellar (Magnetic Nozzles, ISRU Revamp) Version 0.13

[Sevio]

So I've been experimenting with the 3.75m tokamak nuclear reactor, I'm a little bit confused as to why they're tritium-negative when tritium breeding is on. A primary goal for ITER (fusion reactor under construction in France) is to develop a way for fusion reactors to breed more tritium than they consume. The extra tritium produced would also be useful as a margin (restarts, tritium decay) and to kickstart other, future fusion reactors. What's the reasoning behind them being tritium-negative in Interstellar?

Some numbers from the mod as it is: The 3.75m tokamak consumes ~13.69 kg of tritium per day when at full power, yet it can breed only 6.88 kg/day. the Aegletes 2 running on thorium (12.4 GW) can breed 2.51 kg/day. This means you need ~3.17 Aegletes 2 reactors running thorium full bore in order to just break even tritium-wise.

Edited February 8, 2014 by Sevio
Added link to ITER page

[Fractal_UK]

So I've been experimenting with the 3.75m tokamak nuclear reactor, I'm a little bit confused as to why they're tritium-negative when tritium breeding is on. A primary goal for ITER (fusion reactor under construction in France) is to develop a way for fusion reactors to breed more tritium than they consume. The extra tritium produced would also be useful as a margin (restarts, tritium decay) and to kickstart other, future fusion reactors. What's the reasoning behind them being tritium-negative in Interstellar?

Some numbers from the mod as it is: The 3.75m tokamak consumes ~13.69 kg of tritium per day when at full power, yet it can breed only 6.88 kg/day. the Aegletes 2 running on thorium (12.4 GW) can breed 2.51 kg/day. This means you need ~3.17 Aegletes 2 reactors running thorium full bore in order to just break even tritium-wise.

Sounds like you aren't using the latest version if you're seeing a big difference in tritium consumption and breeding rates.

In any case, the rates are tight by neccesity, DT fusion is D+T -> He + n. Thus, for every Tritium consumed by the reaction you have 1 neutron, 1 neutron is required to breed a tritium via the reaction 6Li + n -> He + T. That means every neutron produced in the fusion reaction needs to be used to produce a Tritium, it's unlikely that will be the case but fortunately, there is also the reaction 7Li + n -> He + T + n, which happens far less often than the first reaction (the neutron cross section of Lithium-7 is less than 0.005% of Lithium-6) and is endothermic rather than exothermic but it does help improve the neutron economy a bit.

[NeoAcario]

Looks like this is a bug with the enumeration of maximum power with direct conversion generators - the microwave transmitter is thinking that they are thermal generators so the power it is trying to consume is totally disconnected from what it should be. If I correct this problem and use my trick for fusion reactors (like I did with thermal rockets) of drawing a little less power than the maximum so that the plasma heating doesn't get affected, we get a nice stable situation.

(rubbish rocket but it demonstrates the fix at least!)

Thanks, Fractal... always quick to respond and fix bugs.

Keep it up!

Looking forward to my ~60GW Power system

~Steve

[Sevio]

I think I may have read the number in the VAB wrong, plus some confusion about where the bred tritium was going. It was going into the deuterium/tritium cryostats so I saw the tritium level in my reactors going down at an alarming rate. Did a bit of testing with my antimatter complex that runs on 2 3.75m Tokamaks and 2 Thorium Aegletes 2's:

Tritium inside each reactor: 4.93

Total tritium: 10.20

Total breeding rate (per day): 18.77

After time accelerating for one day:

Tritium inside each reactor: 2.22

Total tritium: 15.24

Tritium consumed in one day: 13.73 (6.865 per fusion reactor)

Net Tritium gain: 5.04 (Just slightly over 2x the tritium breeding rate of the fission reactors)

It looks like the Tokamaks are just barely self-sufficient tritium wise afterall, sorry about the misunderstanding and thanks for the clarification on the neutron economy of tritium breeding

Edited February 8, 2014 by Sevio

[EdisonMaxwell]

Since the Open resource system now exists is it possible for the resource collection KSPI to work with any planet mod? I see that there are ground resource maps in the wap plugin folder. How do I add resources to new planets? I understand the syntax in the atmospheric and oceanic resource configs. For ground based resources, what I can see is that you've rendered clouds in photoshop or a related program, saved them as .png files and named them as body_resource. If I do that right now and start a game, will it work? I haven't installed any planet mods fearing a breakdown of KSPI.

How do I define antimatter collection for them?

[Boamere]

Fractal I know this has been asked countless times, but will there be a "limiter" on the amount of power we can receive with our transceivers, I'm trying to use a microwave powered jet and when i switch to liquid fuel it kinda burns all the fuel in one go and goes interstellar

[merendel]

I've tried almost everything short of a straight out powered descent (though granted, doing shuttle style banking to slow down high in the atmosphere isn't on that list as of yet, so I might prove myself wrong), and I'm still dying. Note that I'm using both Ferram and DR, so there's basically no lift to be had at high hypersonic speeds. It simply seems to be a matter of DR being made primarily with Kerbin reentry in mind.

ya would be tougher with ferram as well. I'd say try the shuttle approach and see if that works. Sadly your probably burning up before even drogue chute partial deployment range as useing those to slow down and then ordering them cut once your at cruising speed would be ideal, could just repack in orbit. Out of curiosity have you tried the air brakes that I think are added by B9? Havent tried them on jool with both DR and Ferram but the extra drag they provide might give you a bit more deceleration before you drop low enough for shock heating to become a major problem.

[InfinityArch]

ya would be tougher with ferram as well. I'd say try the shuttle approach and see if that works. Sadly your probably burning up before even drogue chute partial deployment range as useing those to slow down and then ordering them cut once your at cruising speed would be ideal, could just repack in orbit. Out of curiosity have you tried the air brakes that I think are added by B9? Havent tried them on jool with both DR and Ferram but the extra drag they provide might give you a bit more deceleration before you drop low enough for shock heating to become a major problem.

Not yet, and given that I think my graphics card just died (all sorts of crazy distortions occur whenever I'm playing any sort of game, and a graphics driver update did nothing to help), I probably won't until maybe the end of the week.

[NeoAcario]

Fractal I know this has been asked countless times, but will there be a "limiter" on the amount of power we can receive with our transceivers, I'm trying to use a microwave powered jet and when i switch to liquid fuel it kinda burns all the fuel in one go and goes interstellar

It's already built into the game. Tweakables. Just set the throttle before switching fuel types. Problem solved!

You're welcome!

~Steve

[Boamere]

It's already built into the game. Tweakables. Just set the throttle before switching fuel types. Problem solved!

You're welcome!

~Steve

Really doesn't work, not when you have absolutley massive amounts of power XD i still fly off even at the lowest thrust

And anyway switching fuel types and setting throttle while flying a spaceplane?! that's going to be nigh on impossible (especially since I have FAR)

Well, thanks for reminding me anyway

[merendel]

Really doesn't work, not when you have absolutley massive amounts of power XD i still fly off even at the lowest thrust

And anyway switching fuel types and setting throttle while flying a spaceplane?! that's going to be nigh on impossible (especially since I have FAR)

Well, thanks for reminding me anyway

lol that reminds me of the test I did with a thermal rocket, thermal reciever with an orange tank on top. The thing was geting shock heating almost instantly off the pad, burnt out its fuel in about 2 seconds and got to 20k up befor the air resistance managed to drag it back down to terminal velocity and it started falling back down not long after. Too much power can definatly be a bad thing in this mod.

[NeoAcario]

Really doesn't work, not when you have absolutley massive amounts of power XD i still fly off even at the lowest thrust

And anyway switching fuel types and setting throttle while flying a spaceplane?! that's going to be nigh on impossible (especially since I have FAR)

Well, thanks for reminding me anyway

That actually gave me an idea. What if Fractal added a tweakable to the microwave transmitters and receivers and allowed us to reduce how much we receive / transmit? This would actually be a HUGE help for those of us having problems frying our relay probes and other vehicles.

Consider giving us a tweakable for microwave transmitters and receivers, Fractal? Please?

~Steve

[AndreyATGB]

That actually gave me an idea. What if Fractal added a tweakable to the microwave transmitters and receivers and allowed us to reduce how much we receive / transmit? This would actually be a HUGE help for those of us having problems frying our relay probes and other vehicles.

Consider giving us a tweakable for microwave transmitters and receivers, Fractal? Please?

~Steve

I think this what Boamere was asking for. I second this wholeheartedly, the only way to do this now is to deliberately off-angle the thing with Infernal Robotics or something.

[NeoAcario]

I think this what Boamere was asking for. I second this wholeheartedly, the only way to do this now is to deliberately off-angle the thing with Infernal Robotics or something.

On second thought, all we really need is a tweakable to reduce how much we receive on the microwave receivers and the thermal receivers. This, combined with the max throttle tweakable would fix any issue with breaking our craft with too much power.

At least I think so... I'm going to have ~60 GW in my power grid, even though I really only need/want about 40 GW, but my stations are built for 30 GW each.

~Steve

[db48x]

Alas, I've discovered a bug. I accidentally quickloaded and so have lost the impacts I did yesterday, but not KSPI's memory of them. Since persistant.sfs was reverted, the science points and the science report are gone, but because the impacts are still in WarpPlugin.cfg (which the game cannot revert) crashing these impactors into the surface has no effect.

[NeoAcario]

Am I the only one that absolutely loves the addition of water/ice to Minmus and the polar craters on Mun? I now honestly no longer need/want Kethane. I have an all-in-one base that transmits 30GW, makes fuel, makes monoprop (up to 32k between refills of Ammonia), makes tritium, HE3, etc... and self fuels by mining UF4 and can run 2500 days between Ammonia refills (if not making Monoprop). Love it!

If anyone wants to do the same thing... Land at 00.00.00 N x 95.50.00 W on Minmus. I'm still surveying for the perfect spot on the Mun.

Love this addition, Fractal.

~Steve

[NeoAcario]

Quick question with regards to Microwave Transmitters set to Relay. Do they require full heat sinks? Since they aren't generating or receiving the heat/power... I'm not so sure. I would assume yes, but can someone clarify this for me? Do I really need the fully 60+ GW heat sink capability for relay probes when they are only in relay mode?

~Steve

[AndreyATGB]

Quick question with regards to Microwave Transmitters set to Relay. Do they require full heat sinks? Since they aren't generating or receiving the heat/power... I'm not so sure. I would assume yes, but can someone clarify this for me? Do I really need the fully 60+ GW heat sink capability for relay probes when they are only in relay mode?

~Steve

You don't need radiators. They won't overheat in the background or even while it is the active vessel because relay doesn't actively receive power. If you want to be accurate and realistic, then they would need radiators for the whole 60GW.

[NeoAcario]

You don't need radiators. They won't overheat in the background or even while it is the active vessel because relay doesn't actively receive power. If you want to be accurate and realistic, then they would need radiators for the whole 60GW.

After thinking about it for a bit... I really need to. I would hate to have a relay system fully established just to have Fractal correct this issue and have relays start generating heat. Logically, they should. It's not as if they're acting as mirrors and just bouncing... or are they? I really don't know.

~Steve

[NeoAcario]

I don't suppose anyone's found any good spot on the Mun? I'm searching for 80+ ppm of UF4 and any amount of water-ice.

Anyone?

~Steve

EDIT: Looks like it's time to build myself a rover. FYI... looks like any location within the Polar Crater on the Mun pulls in ~1.5 mT of water an hour. Kinda nuts. Fractal might want to consider dropping this a little. It's 3x what I get from the Ice lakes on Minmus. I guess it's not a big deal. Now I just need to rove around and see if I can find a 80+ ppm of UF4 location.

Edited February 8, 2014 by NeoAcario

[Fractal_UK]

After thinking about it for a bit... I really need to. I would hate to have a relay system fully established just to have Fractal correct this issue and have relays start generating heat. Logically, they should. It's not as if they're acting as mirrors and just bouncing... or are they? I really don't know.

In reality there should probably be some small energy loss at each stage, due to the efficiency of the reception and transmission system. That energy loss to that particular mechanism is fairly small and generally outweighed by the amount of energy lost to empty space so it isn't something I'm especially concerned about "fixing" at the moment. It's right at the bottom of my list and, in all likelyhood, it will stay there.

[Kaa253]

Fractal I know this has been asked countless times, but will there be a "limiter" on the amount of power we can receive with our transceivers, I'm trying to use a microwave powered jet and when i switch to liquid fuel it kinda burns all the fuel in one go and goes interstellar

I know that many people have an "issue" with MechJeb but the "Limit acceleration to..." under Utilities works a treat for me in these situations. I set it to 30 m/s and generally leave it there. The Space Shuttle was designed with a ~3 g limit so if it was good enough for them, then its good enough for my Kerbals. If you want to do an Al Shepard then just turn it off.

[mdapol]

Fractal, may we please have a way to make the Thermal Helper default to hidden? Either a configurable parameter or use the Toolbar addon or something?

[ben2150]

I apologize if this has already been brought up, but I was wondering how I can get the IR Telescope to work? I have a lab and telescope from this mod in orbit, though I suspect that I don't have it nearly far enough. I can't find any videos, or other information about how to make it work. I am not very familiar with how the search function on these forums work, and general searches around the net have not turned up much useful info.

I guess that while I am here, I might as well ask about how to make the Science Lab work. What I mean is, how do I transfer the science? Is it similar to how is was in the past, a separate pool of science. Or is it pooled with the current science pool? Before science became part of KSP I had a pretty good idea of how to handle the science for this mod, but since then I have been completely lost.

Any assistance, videos, or information would be greatly appreciated.

[NeoAcario]

In reality there should probably be some small energy loss at each stage, due to the efficiency of the reception and transmission system. That energy loss to that particular mechanism is fairly small and generally outweighed by the amount of energy lost to empty space so it isn't something I'm especially concerned about "fixing" at the moment. It's right at the bottom of my list and, in all likelyhood, it will stay there.

Awesome! So, even if you do 'fix' it... we'd only need to radiate the power/heat lost in the transfer/relay. So... I guess planning for 10% of what I plan to put into my grid.. would be overkill. Looks like my new target to radiate is ~5 GW on my relay probes.

Good to know!

~Steve