[0.25]KSP Interstellar (Magnetic Nozzles, ISRU Revamp) Version 0.13

xfrankie · February 17, 2014

Every time I transmit seismic data from this thing the amount of mits required are different.

They are different because the science you get & transmit is different every time, and also lowers after repeating the experiment.

I put 10 times the ec on this ship as I have on my mun and minmus sensors and they had 50% battery left after completing the ****ing transmission.

Oh my, if only there were some options to recharge those batteries... Like, something more effective than a solar panel, something like a nuclear reactor...

People are expected to build a warp drive starship with 10000000000 DV to carry the ****ing batteries for and 500 level experiment and then build 3.75m landers with griffon xxx engines to carry the god damn batteries!

If you build a lander powered only by batteries without any means to replenish the charge, then your design is bad and you should feel bad.

What is it going to take from eloo 15000000000000000000000 ec?

You get about 10-12k science from Eeloo impactors alone, so it will be about 100-120k EC. EC needed = 10 x science transmitted. And if you are planning to go out there without any reasonable way to get electricity, then the mission was doomed from start.

Not only this mod, the whole game is learned by attempt&mistake, so I don't really know what are you whining about... Like you were able to guess what it takes to reach the orbit the first time you played... No one is going to get everything right on the first try, if you're stuck, send another probe to dock/KAS with the lander and this time make sure it has something to create EC.

TL;DR: When in doubt, "SAFE-1500".

LordFjord · February 17, 2014

It seems there are a few things still unknown/magical with the impactors.

A few things I observed:

- turn on the accelerometers first

- control the impacting object and crash it

Question: The science points were actually directly given instead of being stored in the part. When crashing the vessel a message pops up that the impact was recorded and yielded XXX science points, so it must be intentional. I thought I had to bring it back or send the data back like with other science experiments. Is this intended?

A suggestion to improve/balance it further: make the science points dependant on the crashing object's mass and speed. I wanna build a huge badass station and crash it somewhere, with mailsails burning for more speed.

Right now I (very successfully) tested and deployed a set of 6 small sensor probes on Minmus (4 on equator, one on each pole), then shot it with my railgun. 1st impact gave 500, 2nd gave 303 science. I think the science values are fair (at least regarding the effort I made).

Some pics of the gun, I'll add some more later with the thing firing and following the projectile:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/24533-Show-off-your-awesome-KSP-pictures!?p=970391&viewfull=1#post970391

Aghanim · February 17, 2014

Is there is any graph or something that shows thermal turbojet power curve? It seems that even with fusion reactors I couldn't make it reaches 1000 m/s while stock turbojet could achieve that easily

And, is the precooler necessary?

Lightwarrior · February 17, 2014

Is there is any graph or something that shows thermal turbojet power curve? It seems that even with fusion reactors I couldn't make it reaches 1000 m/s while stock turbojet could achieve that easily
And, is the precooler necessary?

Their curve is very different from stock ones, and its way, way worse. While stock ones will have higher thrust an high spped/altitude thermal turbojet will have lower thrust in this conditions.

But... just played around with 2.5m fusion reactor and it seems to produce extreme amounts of thrust. With 2*2.5m B9 sabre intakes it produce ~2000KN of thrust up to ~20km. I accidentaly found myself in suborbital hop with ~150km apoapsis just trying to test craft stability under high speeds/g forces.

Also if you want to fly really fast in atmosphere yes, you need precoolers.

Edited February 17, 2014 by Lightwarrior

SV-ESK · February 17, 2014

Just landed an ISRU Refinery on Duna - the radial kind of course. Linked it up to the rest of my little settlement's power grid, and it extracted water just fine. However, electrolysis yields no liquid fuel or oxidizer. I've used KAS to connect it, and it seems to be drawing power just fine, and I made sure there is an LFO tank in the grid. So, what can I do do actually refuel my science return craft?

You can use MM

This MM config:


@PART[FNInlineRefinery]
{
	RESOURCE
	{
	 name = LiquidFuel
	 amount = 0
	 maxAmount = 10
	}

	RESOURCE
	{
	 name = Oxidizer
	 amount = 0
	 maxAmount = 12.2
	}
}
@PART[FNRefinery]
{
	RESOURCE
	{
	 name = LiquidFuel
	 amount = 0
	 maxAmount = 10
	}

	RESOURCE
	{
	 name = Oxidizer
	 amount = 0
	 maxAmount = 12.2
	}
}

to add some fuel to Refinery

and TAC-Fuel-Balancerc to pump it from refinery to another tanks

K3-Chris · February 17, 2014

Errm, I've sent a refinery to minmus to mine and process the ice from the flats, I brought a 2.5m fission reactor and electrical generator, the reactor is outputting 500MW, the generator is 1% efficient giving me 5MW~ output, I need 80MW and I had that on the pad etc, what's going on? My waste heat is pretty empty and not going up fast.

Core Temp is 1674K

Edited February 17, 2014 by K3|Chris

Hedd · February 17, 2014

Errm, I've sent a refinery to minmus to mine and process the ice from the flats, I brought a 2.5m fission reactor and electrical generator, the reactor is outputting 500MW, the generator is 1% efficient giving me 5MW~ output, I need 80MW and I had that on the pad etc, what's going on? My waste heat is pretty empty and not going up fast.
Core Temp is 1674K

How big are your radiators? You can have too much heat dispersion and effectively draw the power clean out of your reactor.

K3-Chris · February 17, 2014

The medium ones, just folded them and the waste heat is building, and the reactor is dropping further in power, I don't get it, wiki says that should be correct, the cooler your radiators are the more power you should get.

Folding the radiators gives me 0.6% efficiency.

Edited February 17, 2014 by K3|Chris

Fractal_UK · February 17, 2014

The medium ones, just folded them and the waste heat is building, and the reactor is dropping further in power, I don't get it, wiki says that should be correct, the cooler your radiators are the more power you should get.
Folding the radiators gives me 0.6% efficiency.

If your generator efficiency is that low, you'll need to a lot more radiators. You need to use the thermal helper in the VAB, it will tell you about resting generator efficiency in space - testing on the pad is useless because your radiators will convect heat away into Kerbin's atmosphere and drop the temperature to that of the environment.

Edit:

Edited February 17, 2014 by Fractal_UK

K3-Chris · February 17, 2014

Doh you're right, I thought green color meant you'd be efficient, not just safe from explosions, that 1% is what the thermal helper says I should get, get 20-30% using 4 of the huge ones.

Shania_L · February 17, 2014

Ok, I got a successful Impactor on Minmus, but I now have too much science to transmit with my solar panels recharge rate.

Can I land another vessel with a reactor for example and a 5th seismic probe and have it transmit the data that was collected before it landed?

Can I pluck one of the seismic sensors off my underpowered probes (with the KAS functionality) and stick it on a new reactor powered lander?

Can I pluck the sensor off the probe and carry it back to Kerbin on an entirely different ship?

875 science is a lot for me and I really don't want to lose it

Also, is there a list of the theoretical maximums for each planet... Ie, the per impact or per body max science possible... is 875 a good amount for 4 sensors and 1 impact?

K3-Chris · February 17, 2014

Just time-warp?

BigD145 · February 17, 2014

You can take science with a kerbal.

xfrankie · February 17, 2014

Ok, I got a successful Impactor on Minmus, but I now have too much science to transmit with my solar panels recharge rate.
Can I land another vessel with a reactor for example and a 5th seismic probe and have it transmit the data that was collected before it landed?
Can I pluck one of the seismic sensors off my underpowered probes (with the KAS functionality) and stick it on a new reactor powered lander?
Can I pluck the sensor off the probe and carry it back to Kerbin on an entirely different ship?
875 science is a lot for me and I really don't want to lose it
Also, is there a list of the theoretical maximums for each planet... Ie, the per impact or per body max science possible... is 875 a good amount for 4 sensors and 1 impact?

I'm not sure about "moving" the experiment itself, but since all your options require that you land another craft next to the probe, it would be the easiest if you KAS-dock a vessel with reactor+generator and then transmit from your original probe (using the power from the other vessel).

There is a kind of limit to the impactors where the amount of science you get decreases with each impact (diminishing returns), so after some time it just isn't worth launching another craft for 1 science.

Also 875science is good, I think I got something simillar using 4 equatorial and 2 polar detectors.

db48x · February 17, 2014

fractal_u REALLY F'ing SERIOUSLY!!! 13 thousands mits to transit the siesmic data!!! ...

It appears that you don't know how science transmission works. When you run out of charge, the transmission is not interrupted, merely delayed until you have enough charge to send the next packet. Just wait it out, and take more power generation capacity on your next mission. Incidentally, you can time-accelerate during the transmission. The antenna's transmission rate doesn't scale with the time acceleration (technically this is a bug), so you can just pretend that your EECOM is smart enough to drop the transmission rate to use power only as fast as it is generated.

On the other subject, don't act like such a jerk. Fractal_UK doesn't owe you anything, even documentation. I notice that you don't seem to have edited the wiki; that's ok, most people forget to edit the wiki when they notice that it's missing something. On the other hand, I wouldn't want absolutely everything to be spoiled ahead of time.

Enjoy the game

db48x · February 17, 2014

Question: The science points were actually directly given instead of being stored in the part. When crashing the vessel a message pops up that the impact was recorded and yielded XXX science points, so it must be intentional. I thought I had to bring it back or send the data back like with other science experiments. Is this intended?

You're using a slightly older version of the mod; in the latest version you have to go back to your sensor craft and collect the data, giving you a normal science report that you can recover or transmit (at 100%). There is one minor flaw, in that you cannot EVA a Kerbal out to pick the science report up, but that's just because he didn't get around to implementing it.

K3-Chris · February 17, 2014

No real point transferring it if transmission is 100%

rosenkranz · February 17, 2014

It appears that you don't know how science transmission works. When you run out of charge, the transmission is not interrupted, merely delayed until you have enough charge to send the next packet. Just wait it out, and take more power generation capacity on your next mission. Incidentally, you can time-accelerate during the transmission. The antenna's transmission rate doesn't scale with the time acceleration (technically this is a bug), so you can just pretend that your EECOM is smart enough to drop the transmission rate to use power only as fast as it is generated.
On the other subject, don't act like such a jerk. Fractal_UK doesn't owe you anything, even documentation. I notice that you don't seem to have edited the wiki; that's ok, most people forget to edit the wiki when they notice that it's missing something. On the other hand, I wouldn't want absolutely everything to be spoiled ahead of time.
Enjoy the game

Lol, what he really doesn't understand is that he's playing with a mod that has a little 62.5cm reactor/generator that would just laugh at those power requirement for about 500kg or so weight. Please, power is the least of your worries.

Concerning impactors. Someone posted something about crashing with the root part first bugging it out. They may be on to something there. I was breaking off impactors that were attached to the carrier by their engine. By root, I had thought he was talking about the probe. But really, it would be whatever part was attached to the carrier (ie. the engine). So I started crashing them nose first instead and haven't had an issue since. In fact, as another posted, I could crash them one after another and each would be recorded. However, I've not done more than 3 in a row.

Now what I havn't had a chance to test is this. How many impacts can be recorded before the data must be collected and xmit'd?

db48x · February 17, 2014

Testing the impactor stuff on kerbin next to KSC and 9/10 of the time I get no reading what so ever, no idea why sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't, anyone got any tips for how to get it to work more regularly?
Wish the wiki had this kind of information, almost nothing from 0.10 is in there.

I've been seeing a lot of questions about this since .10.3 was released. Fractal_UK hasn't confirmed it, but I suspect that this is simply a bug. It's supposed to be fairly simple: put one or more seismic detectors on a body, then crash something else into the body. As long as the impactor is going more than 40m/s, it's supposed to record a science event that you can then transmit.

When the mod detects an impact meeting these requirements, it records the information about it to a cfg file. The recorded information looks like this:

SEISMIC_SCIENCE_MUN
{
name = interstellarseismicarchive
5bd0cafb-e211-4e18-a359-3cde0d60c872 = 1.70530256582424E-13
56025815-79c8-4990-a0e6-8b8af8cafbc7 = 2.06863658051805E-13
IMPACT_56025815-79c8-4990-a0e6-8b8af8cafbc7
{
transmitted = True
vesselname = Impactor Probe
science = 617.517134866373
number = 1
}
IMPACT_fb021f98-76e9-4001-9998-087418fa0c50
{
transmitted = True
vesselname = Impactor Probe 2
science = 374.543078337695
number = 2
}
IMPACT_49be7fbc-aef5-43db-b5fd-b00c2ec56215
{
transmitted = True
vesselname = Impactor Probe 3
science = 227.17186286624
number = 3
}
IMPACT_bdc4b2ec-c382-41cd-9f37-e71108c694ed
{
transmitted = True
vesselname = Impactor Probe 4
science = 137.786699262255
number = 4
}
}

Some of the information in here is fairly obvious, such as the vessel name, the science amount, and whether or not the report has been transmitted. There are unique identifiers for each report; these could be keyed off of information about the impact event (time, location, vessel), or they could just be the vessel identifier. Either way, it's clearly trying to avoid recording duplicate events.

Another possibility is that the mod is comparing vessel names to detect duplicates. You'll see that I named each of my impactors with a unique name. I only did this so that I would know which one to focus next, since they were spaced pretty closely together, but it could be that this is required. This is corroborated by another recent post, so we should explicitly test this. I won't be able to do it until this evening after work, but perhaps someone else would like to give it a try.

The easiest way to do it would be in a game where no impact events have been done on Kerbin. Make a little craft in the SPH with a seismic detector and launch it. Might want to give it wheels so that you can roll it off of the runway; we all know that the ISRU doesn't work if it's on top of a model such as the runway. Then make a craft in the VAB, which consists of the following parts, from top to bottom: probe core, solid booster, decoupler, probe core, solid booster. Set the staging so that the decoupler and the top booster fire first, so that you can launch this one half at a time. Launch the first one and crash it nearby, then copy the WarpPlugin.cfg for later inspection. Then launch the other half and do the same. We can now see whether the craft name is relevant; if the WarpPlugin.cfg has only one event then it's likely. If you repeat the experiment but rename the second half of the craft before crashing it and you get two events, then I'd say it's nearly certain. Unless there's some other confounding variable we haven't controlled for.

db48x · February 17, 2014

Now what I havn't had a chance to test is this. How many impacts can be recorded before the data must be collected and xmit'd?

As many as you want.

juraleona · February 17, 2014

Be aware that freshly registered users posts take a little while to show up. in a fast moving thread your post could be on page 680 but the thread is already to 682 by the time it shows up so its really easy to miss posts like your first one.
Never seen that happen before but I'd recommend the canned troubelshooting tips. Delete the warp plugin folder from KSP and then download a fresh copy of the mod and install it. I would suspect with a missing texture like that you somehow downloaded a corrupted archive. If that fails knowing what other mods you have installed might help in trouble shooting your problem. a copy of the error log wouldnt hurt either.
On to my own question is the wiki out of date in reguards to the plasma thrusters max input? wiki says 3.125GW for the .625 thruster but its actualy drawing up to 4.34 on my test rig and the 1.25 rated at 25GW was pulling the full 32GW out of my microwave network. Just curious if that was a bug, out of date info, or just me missing something blindingly obvious. Also the info in the VAB for the attila thrusters is a bit off, they show the proper ISP but are listing the plasma thrusters thrust/MW values for each fuel type.

I've made sure that archive is right and not damaged, reinstaled mod 3 times, downloaded 2 times. It just seems to not load up the textures...

Drew Kerman · February 17, 2014

tl/dr - is there an image of the complete tech tree anywhere? I'm using the tree for this mod and I would like to know exactly where my science point expenditures are taking me eventually

DailyFrankPeter · February 17, 2014

Hi Everyone,

[Microwave Tech:] Please help me get this straight once and for all... if I have e.g. two reactor-generator sets docked together into one vessel, how many antennas are they supposed to use for transmitting? I get results which are pretty random - at first I got each set it's own antenna, sending at 0.75GW (one generator's output worth each); now sometimes I get 0 on both, sometimes all goes through 1 antenna, and sometimes 1.5GW goes through each (the output magically doubled?).

Also does antenna visibility and power received get updated on focus? In realtime? When exactly? I managed to switch all transmitters off and still get the receiver to receive power!

Thanks a lot!

Edited February 17, 2014 by DailyFrankPeter

db48x · February 17, 2014

tl/dr - is there an image of the complete tech tree anywhere? I'm using the tree for this mod and I would like to know exactly where my science point expenditures are taking me eventually

It's there in the first post.

agentexeider · February 17, 2014

Need more information for the Reactor...
The AM Container description tells you what you need, the requirements are in KW, 1 KW = 1 EC/s or 1 KW = 0.001 MW
You can use stock EC to power the Containers.

you sure about that, because I was trying to test out how much juice it takes to power the thing and it kept counting down until detonation.

EDIT: nevermind, you need to have power generation exceeding MAX requirement to keep it powered.

Edited February 17, 2014 by agentexeider

[0.25]KSP Interstellar (Magnetic Nozzles, ISRU Revamp) Version 0.13

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