Burn retrograde button

[Harguinxx]

Maybe it's because I'm a newe, but I think one of the most difficult things while docking is to set the relative velocity to 0 (to the target, obviously) and I don't know why, I mean, you have a mark in the navball telling you where is the retrograde and prograde direction, but at the end if you want to set the relative velocity to exactly 0 you need to rotate your ship until you find the retrograde or prograde mark, and do it manually, and then of course rotate again to your target, I only ask for a button that burn RCS in the retrograde direction, so, when you are at less of 2 m/s from the target you just need to press the button to set 0 m/s and enjoy the docking!!!

Do you think is a really silly and stupid idea or it seems feasible????

[maltesh]

If you're using RCS, you don't have to rotate to kill relative velocity. Requires a bit of practice to get a handle on how the velocity indicator moves with RCS thrusting,though.

That said, the design of the Navball does leave a bit to be desired; ideally, it should never be able to hide the the velocity, target, or node direction markers from you, regardless of which direction they are, but the bracket around the navball can easily do so if the relative motion, target, or node is perpendicular to your nose direction.

[allmappedout]

More importantly, for docking, you don't ever need to come to exactly 0 m/s to dock. There's always some wiggle room. Whilst I agree that the pro/retrograde markers are a bit jumpy at low speeds, especially compared to the target marker, you can pretty much stop down to 0.1m/s or less, particularly with RCS. Remember as well that even if the marker disappears, as long as you were thrusting in the exact same direction as it, you can still thrust in that direction to remove any residual velocity, so when it does disappear, just give it one more tap on the RCS, and you should be golden.

[togfox]

If you're facing the marker on the navball and want to slow down just use reverse RCS (N key bey default). You don't need to rotate.

I only ask for a button that burn RCS in the retrograde direction

N is your friend.

[Diche Bach]

I was totally lost until I found this:

Key Bindings

[Harguinxx]

If you're facing the marker on the navball and want to slow down just use reverse RCS (N key bey default). You don't need to rotate.

N is your friend.

jajajaaj this is just if i have velocity in the direction I'm facing, but no if i have velocity in any other direction.

In general people I see that is not a problem when you are experienced, so forgive my post, but I'm still a newe and it's very annoying to me!!!

[Togs8896]

Rotating the ship to meet the marker isn't always so big of a problem, for me it is knowing where the markers are on the ball if they're not immediately visible. Say you're facing a posistion where the prograde/retrograde/maneuver marker isn't showing, it can be difficult knowing where to aim which can be real bad if you're low on RCS propellant/electricity. It would be hlpful if there was some directional marker at the edge of the ball to give and idea where things are to take the guessing out of it. Just my $0.02

[Diche Bach]

Rotating the ship to meet the marker isn't always so big of a problem, for me it is knowing where the markers are on the ball if they're not immediately visible. Say you're facing a posistion where the prograde/retrograde/maneuver marker isn't showing, it can be difficult knowing where to aim which can be real bad if you're low on RCS propellant/electricity. It would be hlpful if there was some directional marker at the edge of the ball to give and idea where things are to take the guessing out of it. Just my $0.02

I agree with this 100%

[Harguinxx]

Rotating the ship to meet the marker isn't always so big of a problem, for me it is knowing where the markers are on the ball if they're not immediately visible. Say you're facing a posistion where the prograde/retrograde/maneuver marker isn't showing, it can be difficult knowing where to aim which can be real bad if you're low on RCS propellant/electricity. It would be hlpful if there was some directional marker at the edge of the ball to give and idea where things are to take the guessing out of it. Just my $0.02

Totally agree, it was not the matter on this post, but I think there is no excuse for not being in the game, at least as an option...

[allmappedout]

Yep...this has been raised a ton of times, the navball needs an off-visible marker to highlight the direction.

[Themohawkninja]

H is pro-grade, and N is retro-grade burning. You don't need to rotate the craft at all.

[togfox]

jajajaaj this is just if i have velocity in the direction I'm facing, but no if i have velocity in any other direction.

In general people I see that is not a problem when you are experienced, so forgive my post, but I'm still a newe and it's very annoying to me!!!

I'm clearly not understanding the question/problem.

If you have carefully placed RCS - that is - enough RCS jets so you can move in 6 directions (left, right, up, down, forward, back), then rotation is never ever needed for translation. Ever.

The keys i,j,k,l,h,n are the only things you need. If you want to burn in the opposite direction, that means slowing down, you hold the N key and your RCS will slow you down - or - burn retrograde.

You only need to rotate to align your docking port with your target docking port. This is usually the very last thing I do and when I'm about 10m from the target port. I then use ASAS to hold that orientation and continue the fine maneuvoring with RCS.

Does that help?

[Harguinxx]

I'm clearly not understanding the question/problem.

If you have carefully placed RCS - that is - enough RCS jets so you can move in 6 directions (left, right, up, down, forward, back), then rotation is never ever needed for translation. Ever.

The keys i,j,k,l,h,n are the only things you need. If you want to burn in the opposite direction, that means slowing down, you hold the N key and your RCS will slow you down - or - burn retrograde.

You only need to rotate to align your docking port with your target docking port. This is usually the very last thing I do and when I'm about 10m from the target port. I then use ASAS to hold that orientation and continue the fine maneuvoring with RCS.

Does that help?

Well it helped because I'm very new and every advice is helpful, but I think I haven't expressed myself well.

The point was that sometimes while I'm approximating to my objective i have some velocity in a unknown direction, and I have to burn in random directions until I find the one that reduces my velocity, but in the process modify my position and often give me some other random velocity in another direction, making the maneuver absolutely painful.

But as you and other people pointed, this problem is because of my inexperience with the RCS maneuvering, and a problem of orientation referred to the navball and thus, not related to this tread.

Thank you all your efforts to help me, it originally was a suggestion, not a thread, but I'm happy with the answers.

[togfox]

Ya. I think I understand. When using RCS it can sometimes be confusing on which way to thrust if your craft is both rotating and changing orientation. Under these circumstances it can be hard to work out which way is up. I agree - this is problem - but it is one that is solved with practice and understanding.

When I design my craft, I like to some how indicate on the body which way is up. I like to put a small antenna, strut, pointless fuel line or some other easily distinguished part so I know which way to orientate/rotate my craft and then use ASAS to lock my craft in that position. If my antenna or marker is pointing 'down' (the bottom of the screen) then I know my controls will be opposite to what I intended. If my marker points up (the top of the screen) then I know my controls will be mapped correctly. If my craft is sideways or constantly rotating then I know I'm in trouble!

Perhaps what you were originally asking for is a change in the RCS controls so that its not relative to the craft, but absolute in terms of space. This means left would always be left no matter how the craft is orientated. An interesting idea, but this wouldn't reflect real mechanics and would seem 'gamey' for most.

I suggest you find a way to mark 'up' and then do lots of docking practice. If it helps to know - I don't use the navball at all when I dock.

Good luck.

[loknar]

I am not sure I understand what the OP is referring to yet!!

We all went through this training and may I suggest switching to "Chase View".

So that the Nav Ball matches the spaceship's rotation on screen.

Do you understand what all the colored components of the Nav Ball mean? Read the manual that comes with the game box jk

[VerdammteSeele]

To add to the original question. I don't think it'd be all that helpful, just an easy-mode shortcut. For docking it's not necessary and for anything else it'd just be a easy shortcut, not what the game is about.

[Harguinxx]

I am not sure I understand what the OP is referring to yet!!

We all went through this training and may I suggest switching to "Chase View".

So that the Nav Ball matches the spaceship's rotation on screen.

Do you understand what all the colored components of the Nav Ball mean? Read the manual that comes with the game box jk

Yes, I know what the chase view is, and it helps a lot, and I have read all the tutorials in the wiki, so yes, I know what each colour means in the navball, I have around 50 hours of gameplay, it make's me a newe, but I know all the important things.

My only point is that sometimes the maneuver of setting the relative velocity to 0 is overcomplicated for me, as it have been pointed, is more problem of visualization of the marks in the navball, and of my inexperience than a problem of controls.

To add to the original question. I don't think it'd be all that helpful, just an easy-mode shortcut. For docking it's not necessary and for anything else it'd just be a easy shortcut, not what the game is about.

Well... it's difficult to say in what point is an easy mod short cut, or it is a useful help, I mean, since you have a computer that tells you in what direction are you going, telling to the computer to burn in the opposite direction don't seems cheating for me, I don't know how a real spaceship works in that matter, but I would be surprised if a modern one have not a feature like that.

But another time, as it was pointed, if would be even better and easier if the navball tells you in what direction are you are going even if you aren't facing at it, with a little mark on the edge of the instrument. but that is another suggestion, a clever one, I may say.

[loknar]

sorry I misunderstood. You want a shortcut that would make things a bit too easy, IMHO! But you're right IRL the docking pilots have a lot of cheating available to them.

The navball improvement that you explained is indeed something that needs to be done soon. IRL the navballs must have this or better.

[Tripzter]

Fix your translation keys m8t. Change them to your liking and enjoy docking. Its very easy. In .21 it jsut got even easier since now you're not burning 20 rcs per second when you engage sts.

[loknar]

Harguinxx is saying he wants...

a single key that can thrust in a vector that matches the navball's retrograde direction, even if craft is not pointing in pro or retrograde.

Now you must mash your keyboard like the phantom of the opera to acheive this (or rotate orientation to retrograde point and press H)

[Harguinxx]

Harguinxx is saying he wants...

a single key that can thrust in a vector that matches the navball's retrograde direction, even if craft is not pointing in pro or retrograde.

Now you must mash your keyboard like the phantom of the opera to acheive this (or rotate orientation to retrograde point and press H)

This is EXACTLY what I was trying to say

[UH60guy]

If you've ever played the old "Escape Velocity" games, they had an extremely useful single key binding that would rotate the spacecraft to face opposite the velocity vector. That may be a useful suggetion along these lines if they didn't want to bind all RCS thrusters to a single key- in addition to following a new heading bug to face off-nav ball retrograde or burn maneuver headings, imagine a single button to press and hold to rotate and align with that direction. The benefit of a rotational (instead of thrust) key binding is it could also make orbital maneuvers more precise on main engines, not just with RCS during docking.

I'm not sure how it would play out on game balance (for those not using MechJeb), but it could potentially add much more precision to the manual piloting.

Edited August 8, 2013 by UH60guy